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XJ XJ12 ( X305 ) 1995 - 1997

My XJ12 has a starting problem....

 
  #1  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:01 PM
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Default My XJ12 has a starting problem....

Hi everyone.

Not sure how much information I can get on here but worth a try.

Unknown to me my beloved '95 XJ12 has been letting water in. I found wet carpets in the car and I’ve spent three solid days drying everything out.

The water got in at the base of the windscreen. All repaired now. Just didn’t realize how bad the issue was.

I went to to start the car today and I’m not getting the engine to crank.

Everything seems to work electrically with the ignition on. Lights, radio air conditioning, etc.

however when when I try to start I get nothing. The instrument lights go out and there’s no starting. The radio lights go out and slowly lighten back up.

I also have have no mileage display (odometer).

Now before this descends into all doom and gloom I think it may be the battery. It’s showing 9 volts on the dash. Tried to jumpstart but even with jump leads connected to a new battery it's still registering 10 volts. Which makes me think it may actually be the battery.

The car hasn’t been used in about four months as well.

Could it it be just battery or does the blank odometer mean something else?

Thanks in advance.


 

Last edited by Andrew Harper; 11-04-2018 at 12:50 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:14 PM
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First, install a new battery and make sure the new one if fully charged. There should be a minimum of 12.6 volts across the terminals when fully charged.

If the vehicle is unused for several weeks at a time, consider connecting it to a battery maintainer to prolong the life of the battery. Here is an example for twenty-two quid:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deltran-B...2kM9:rk:7:pf:0
 
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NBCat View Post
First, install a new battery and make sure the new one if fully charged. There should be a minimum of 12.6 volts across the terminals when fully charged.

If the vehicle is unused for several weeks at a time, consider connecting it to a battery maintainer to prolong the life of the battery. Here is an example for twenty-two quid:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deltran-B...2kM9:rk:7:pf:0
thanks matey. I will try that first.

I did just read that the ecu is in the drivers footwell? Iím wondering if thatís got water into it. However I would expect all sorts of issues not just starting. Everything else seems fine.
 

Last edited by Andrew Harper; 11-03-2018 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:19 PM
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Remove the ECU from the vehicle and make sure it's dry. Use a hair dryer to gently warm it, or weather permitting, place it in a window in the sunlight.

Check both ends of the connection for any corrosion as well.
 
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:32 PM
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The king relays in the corner of each fuse box can be swapped with the LH engine fuse box relay considered a spare

The LH engine fuse box relay is in reality only the horn relay so test first

The mileage comes out of the LH heelboard king relay

With the key in the on position you can rock the relay it their sockets and feel them click . If the relays click it shows the contacts in the ignition switch are sonewhat OK

By establishing power on these 5 points we can move on to the starter rotation






Editing
 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 11-03-2018 at 08:08 PM.
  #6  
Old 11-03-2018, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Penelope View Post


The king relays in the corner of each fuse box can be swapped with the LH engine fuse box relay considered a spare

The LH engine fuse box relay is in reality only the horn relay so test first

The mileage comes out of the LH heelboard king relay

With the key in the on position you can rock the relay it their sockets and feel them click . If the relays click it shows the contacts in the ignition switch are sonewhat OK

By establishing power on these 5 points we can move on to the starter rotation






Editing
thanks for that. Interesting.

I wonder. I also own an XJS facelift and I replaced all the blue colored relays with the upgraded units. These are water tight which the originals are not.

I wonder if these are also a culprit?
 

Last edited by Andrew Harper; 11-04-2018 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:25 PM
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Water inside the fuse will help conduct the current until later it may corrode the fuse link
 
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Penelope View Post
Water inside the fuse will help conduct the current until later it may corrode the fuse link
I’m sorry I was tired when I typed that. Corrected now. I meant relays. Can’t remember the number now but the original blue Lucas ones let moisture in.

They were replaced by Jaguar with different units. I think I replaced about ten of them on the xjs. I had headlights not working properly and all sorts. All the issues vanished.

Anyway. Going slightly off topic but I’ll have a look today. Unfortunately its pouring down outside which hinders the work a bit but I’ll see what I can do.
 

Last edited by Andrew Harper; 11-04-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:56 AM
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A step after the king relays clicking closed is the ignition switch which controls them by providing a control ground

This is an inside job



By removing the 2 screws in the holes from the bottom steering column cover the cover will come off

By putting a meter on pin 1 to 5 you should see it close as you rotate the key . Then 2 to 5 then 3 to 5

More then one of these contacts will close at the same time as you rotate but is not important at this time

On the car side of the connector the pin 5 should go to car frame ground

You can flush out any moisture trapped in the switch with some rubbing alcohol , shaking around , then tapping out . Let dry then spraying in some penetrating oil . this will preserve it from corroding

The fuse boxes can be removed from the car as there is a removable connector on the bottom side you can't see . Label each fuse box as I think each is different . Flush with rubbing alcohol

The fuse maps can be found on page 21 of the LWB doc linked below :

The Body Processor Module or sometimes called BCM is important in starter inhibit as well as other things like lights and I would recommend pulling it out and flushing it out as an inside job . Not an easy job behind the glove box but recommended still for long term serviceability .

A way to know if the BPM is working in the starter inhibit aspect is to feel the starter solenoid relay click and this relay an be swapped with the headlight relay if not clicking . These large relay can get stuck in their base socket and some penetrating oil spray helps .

 
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
X300 1996 LWB.pdf (2.14 MB, 4 views)

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 11-04-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Penelope View Post
A step after the king relays clicking closed is the ignition switch which controls them by providing a control ground

This is an inside job



By removing the 2 screws in the holes from the bottom steering column cover the cover will come off

By putting a meter on pin 1 to 5 you should see it close as you rotate the key . Then 2 to 5 then 3 to 5

More then one of these contacts will close at the same time as you rotate but is not important at this time

On the car side of the connector the pin 5 should go to car frame ground

You can flush out any moisture trapped in the switch with some rubbing alcohol , shaking around , then tapping out . Let dry then spraying in some penetrating oil . this will preserve it from corroding

The fuse boxes can be removed from the car as there is a removable connector on the bottom side you can't see . Label each fuse box as I think each is different . Flush with rubbing alcohol

The fuse maps can be found on page 21 of the LWB doc linked below :

The Body Processor Module or sometimes called BCM is important in starter inhibit as well as other things like lights and I would recommend pulling it out and flushing it out as an inside job . Not an easy job behind the glove box but recommended still for long term serviceability .

A way to know if the BPM is working in the starter inhibit aspect is to feel the starter solenoid relay click and this relay an be swapped with the headlight relay if not clicking . These large relay can get stuck in their base socket and some penetrating oil spray helps .

Wow! Thank you so much Lady Penelope

I'll have a good look when I next get chance, Thanks again for your help.

I tried the battery from the Jaguar and no luck.

The odometer is coming back to life but this is what I'm seeing. Which I'm assuming is all the damp in the car.



I've also noticed the red lights on the A/C panel are glowing, although everything works fine.



Video of me trying to start the car, as you can see there is no response. iCloud link, you'll need to download to play it.

You can hear me turning the key, sounds like there is some form of relay clicking but all the main lights go out. The warning lights stay lit.

https://nam03.safelinks.protection.o...%3D&reserved=0

I think my main concern at the moment is getting something like a small heater in the car, cold weather now and I need to dry the interior out.
 
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:58 PM
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You will have to put your finger on the specific starter relay as there are others in the area that both click on and off in the starting sequence .

Movie plays but in this case is inconclusive

I do hear a frog in the background but you may be too close to France

 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 11-04-2018 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:52 PM
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HI,

Just a quick update on this issue for you all.

I changed most of the relays that I could find and I also used electronic contact cleaner to just try and dry and look after any damp connections.

Anyway, no luck. The car still wouldn't start.

I had this one idea though (and at this point i had nothing to lose). I have a domestic dehumidifier in the house and anything to try and dry the interior out was worth it.

Placed the unit in the car, set it at 30% and just left it running a few weeks. Emptied about four buckets of water from the base. The car still smells a bit musty but it was doing the job.

After about three weeks of this, I went to check something, and low and behold the car started.

So I've left the dehumidifier in the car at 30% and every few days I run the engine with heating on full blast to get some heat into the car and the interior.

About half of the centre console bulbs have gone so I need to sort that, the wood trim in the car is not good so I may have to send that for renovation, and the leather trim is not looking great. The worst seat is the front passenger one which has mould on it. Products have been ordered!

Two quick questions though.

1. The odometer is still blank. I see there are plenty of instrument binacles on EBay. Is it possible to swap over the odometer display only on these? Or are they like the horrible copper ribbon cables like on the clock? I'm handy with small electrical work. I think the segments in the display have simply failed. I will need to remove it anyway as some of the bulbs have gone behind the instruments.
2. I've searched far and wide for this one but found no answer. I assume most of the the musty/damp smell is still coming from the carpets. Is there any companies in the UK that make replacement carpets for the LWB X300? I can't find any. The lambswool rugs I think are also ruined so I will have to get replacements from somewhere. I have dried them but they smell of wet sheep and damp. lol.

I can't do much now apart from what I'm doing already, with no garage and the lovely January/February weather it limits my hours of work. Should start to get better around March hopefully.
 

Last edited by Andrew Harper; 01-21-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:23 PM
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There are new seat skins recently avail for the 95 - 97 X300 series that someone has tried , this is other then seat covers over the original skins next to the foam

Reasonable price

I'll get back with you later today
 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 01-20-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Penelope View Post
There are new seat skins recently avail for the 95 - 97 X300 series that someone has tried , this is other then seat covers over the original skins next to the foam

Reasonable price

I'll get back with you later today
hey, have you any news on those seat skins?

Out of all the seats the only bad part is the bottom cushion on the passenger side.

 
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:06 PM
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Let me look for the resent post topic threads
 
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:16 AM
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I'm glad to hear you're making progress, but I would turn up the dehumidifier to 40-45% perhaps. You said the wood trim is not great but 30% is very dry for both the leather and wood, and could cause warping or cracking issues.
 
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:51 AM
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Hi,

Sorry that was me exaggerating slightly.

It's currently on 40-50%. That's as low as it will go anyway but it's doing the job.

Yes, things are going ok. I've booked a few days off work next week so I can spend some more time on it. Just hoping the weather stays ok. It's coldish here but dry and that's all I care about.

In an accidental coincidence the rear passenger compartment is missing it's metal stick on kick plate covers (I have new ones still in a box), so I can get to the screws holding the plate down rather than risk damaging the metal sheet that covers them.

I'm going to remove it, and lift up the rear carpet section. Take out the foam, etc. and thoroughly attack it with hair dryers, etc.

There's still some wetness there so doing my best to get rid of it as much as I can. So far so good though.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:18 PM
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I couldn't find the recent post on someone trying the seat skinsbut I beleive this is the vendor

https://www.lseat.com/products/1995-...SABEgIBbfD_BwE


Here is one older post

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...lstery-101125/\

This link may have something for you , notice the carpets , may have to inquire on X300 / X305 offerings

http://www.worlduph.com/jaguar/xj_series/

 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 02-10-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Penelope View Post
I couldn't find the recent post on someone trying the seat skinsbut I beleive this is the vendor

https://www.lseat.com/products/1995-...SABEgIBbfD_BwE


Here is one older post

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...lstery-101125/\

This link may have something for you , notice the carpets , may have to inquire on X300 / X305 offerings

Seat Upholstery, Carpet Sets, Converitble Tops, Headliners, Door Panels and Rubber Seals for Jaguar XJ Series Sedans from World Upholstery & Trim

https://www.youtube.the seat skins com/watch?v=_RUReRv0gQM
Thanks matey.

Sorry I did see your reply but I came down with bronchitis and I've been away from the PC trying to shift the infection.

Thanks for those links, brilliant stuff.

Oddly I've sent a few emails and filled in the contact form for World Upholstery but had no response. I assume they still exist. Will try their Facebook page as well.

The LSeats look interesting, incredible price. My only issue is the car. The Century had unusual trim colours. I believe the leather is called light mushroom. So I may be unable to get a good match. I may send off payment for the sample card anyway just to see.

Thanks
 
 
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