After a pretty tricky new starter install (which I will write up once i've got the last lap sorted) I've got what I assume is an electrical issue. I have a fully charged battery and the ignition key turns on the CEL, lights, central locking etc works but I have no crank, no sound of anything when I turn the ignition key to start the 96 US car.

History and possible causes:
Starter motor fail and flatbed tow (did this trigger any kind of immobilizer?)
While poking around the old starter I managed to briefly short the solenoid wiring while battery was still connected
Battery disconnected for two months
There was some water on the inside of windscreen while I was fitting new starter due to rain and a leak somewhere, car is now dried out in sun, I bought a car cover to block any leaks.
I rewired the starter trigger wire as the original was old and crusty.

I've checked the fuses I can find:
Engine bay left side fusebox F3 starter solenoid
Engine bay right side fusebox F12 starter relay

Haven't checked the starter relay yet
Car was running great before the starter failed

I assume the starter grounds out to bellhousing mount, I wired it identically to the old one

Anyone got any suggestions?

Sad side note - I'm pretty sure 'lady penelope' on this forum is severely incapacitated or has gone upstairs. He had some serious kidney issues and suddenly stopped posting last year. He was extremely helpful to me when I first got my car and was always an excellent resource for electrical problems, if he has gone to the great Browns Lane in the sky he will be sorely missed.

 

G'day Oliver,

Some simple things to check apart from the fuse.

In the engine compartment RHS fuse box is a relay, it should click when the IGN is turned ON. If it doesn't click then swap it with the relay from the other, LHS, fusebox, this is the horn relay, and try again.

If it does click and still no crank then there are a bunch of relays behind the LHS headlight, there is one with a thick white and red wire leading from it, this one should click when you try to crank the engine. If it doesn't click then unplug it and substitute a blue relay in it's place and try again.

If both these relays click when they should then the problem is between the last relay and the starter itself. Check all the connectors.

As an aside you can insert any suspect relay in the horn relay socket to test it and sometimes just R&Ring a relay will re-establish a dodgy contact and get things working again.

I've had problems with dodgy relays over the years and I generally ease the covers off them and clean up the contacts with some emery paper and that usually fixes it, if not I just replace the relay.

Cheers and good luck,
Jeff.

 

Thanks Jeff! I'll move on to the relays tomorrow. Scratching my head about why this is happening as car was running perfectly prior to starter interlude. Why would a relay stop talking to the loom without any changes to its state in the interim? I'm wracking my brains over things I've touched while doing the SM in case there's an obvious reason I've missed....

 

Gday Oliver,

Yeah I wonder the same thing but not long after I bought my car it died completely, luckily not far from home, and I had it flatbedded.

It turned out that both relays in the L & R heelboard fuseboxes had failed simultaneously. They are both IGN relays so when they fail the car is electrically dead.

I called a learned mate and studied the circuit diags and sitting in the car with the IGN switched on R&Red both those relays and lo and behold the car came good and started and behaved nornally. As has been mentioned the action of R&Ring electrical components often fixes the problem.

Cheers,
Jeff.

 

G'day Oliver,

I was just going over your posts and have a question about this statement you wrote "I assume the starter grounds out to bellhousing mount, I wired it identically to the old one"

When I replaced my starter motor a few years ago there was only one electrical connector on it which the cable from the battery connects to and then on the same post the cable to the alternator, oh and of course the trigger wire for the starter solenoid.

My starter didn't have a ground cable. The engine ground cable is on the other side of the bell housing.

My question is,
are you sure you've connected your starter correctly?

Cheers,
Jeff.

 

Hi Jeff

I didn't phrase my previous post well....I was looking at the wiring diagram and chin stroking about where the starter grounds.

i wired the main electric supply that comes through the metal tube to the single nut on the starter which also connects to the fire wall loom wire, with the starter trigger wire attached with a push on fitting to a lug on top of the engine.
I redid the trigger wire and connector to starter motor with the 10g white wire seen below as the old wire was pretty cooked and brittle.

I'd better double check my trigger wire crimp into the loom on the left in this pic tomorrow, maybe I made it look pretty but it's not hooked up. I thought it was a good connection but I'll check it again...

 

That all looks good Oliver but you had me a little confused for a moment! I confuse easily these days. Ha!

If the two relays in the circuit check out then the trigger lead is the suspect.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

You say that the car was flatbed towed. Could this have tripped the cutoff? This is worth checking and found in the left hand foot well. I know it cuts the fuel but might also inhibit the starter.

 

I'm not sure if the yank cars have this anti tea leaf feature, it's on my list to check today. Thanks for input!!

 

Its not so much an anti theft device as a safety cutout in case the car is in an accident. I know it cuts power to the fuel pump, but it might just cut power to the starter too.

 

Today's update on this mystery:
I redid the trigger wire connection to the loom. My previous version turned out to be good so that is eliminated as an issue. Tightened the female connector on the starter motor tab for a tighter fit.
Swapped the two relays in left and right engine bay fuse boxes to test, no change
Had a clean up of the relays by left headlight, the car is still needing a thorough engine bay cleaning. Nothing weird going on down there, haven't cleaned the connections yet..

The car does have the sensitive transmission gearshift interlock issue, I've previously had to wiggle the shifter to find a place where the car will start. I can't believe that is a no start issue but may as well fix that while I'm not rolling around. May as well work my way through the starting process from key to starter motor.

Still studying circuit diagrams. I never tested the new motor before inserting, I'll do that with a battery for a moment just on the off chance it's dud....

 

Very sad indeed. I know he had some health problems in the past. He disappeared from the forum a couple of times in the past (I had sent him PMs without response) but he suddenly returned a few months later. That's what I'm holding out for until someone can hopefully verify his status. Parker is a BFFINM: best forum friend I never met!

 

The P (or the N) must be illuminated. Did you try N yet? That pigtail in the photo lays upon the Linear switch box that controls the gear illumination and starter inhibit. The 2 adjusting screws are just visible. I recently replaced the Not-In-Park microswitch seen here, soldering the pigtail onto another switch.

The NIP microswitch triggers several different functions. I think if the P is lit but the NIP switch isn't properly closed by contact of the gear lever, you won't be able to crank. Now if the trans is in N (N illuminated) then the switch is open but the system knows that it is ok to crank in neutral. My problem was that the NIP switch would stay closed after moving the gear lever out of park. So the gearshift interlock would click every time I stepped on the brakes.

 

I'm seeing no illumination of the P. l've just tried putting car in neutral, no change in state and no light.
I'm not hearing any solenoid noises when putting key in and turning regardless of shifter position so I'm assuming there is an issue at the gearshift, whether with the interlock or some other issue remains to be discovered.

Assuming I disconnect the battery before disassembly of shifter, do I follow page 225 'solenoid interlock adjust' in big manual or are there other areas I need to explore too. I'll test the interlock relay, that may be the culprit!
Is it ok to temporarily reconnect battery while this area is apart to test? Don't see why not...

Struggling to understand why a starter motor change may have had an impact on the shifter wiring but I need to fix this issue anyway so may as well do it now so it's off the list. Also patching the badly blitzed windscreen washer reservoir while performing the multiple month wheelie on front end jackstands... [rolls eyes]

 

I should have tested my car before I posted this. But today I found that the engine cranks and starts when I move the gearshift off of the NIP microswitch before cranking, while the P is still lit. So disregard my quoted paragraph, sorry.

The P or N must be lit to enable cranking! It is the job of the Linear switch to illuminate the digits, and it also sends out that info to those that need to know. So your Linear switch is probably loose or out of adjustment. Access to the screws is terrible. You will need a #2 Posidrive bit, with a 1/4" closed end wrench to go around the bit. Perhaps taped together? Then replace the screws with bolts of the right type. I just learned that trick from John Herbert here on the forum!

Linear Switch Adjustment

The 2 visible relays in my photo are the gearshift interlock and ignition keylock relays, which are activated by the NIP microswitch. With ignition on, it is easy to see/feel/hear they are working when the NIP microswitch is opened and closed by moving the gearshift lever. No real need to have the battery disconnected while working in there.

Off with the skislope! Indeed it is a very complicated electro/mechanical system in there. It will make more sense once you get in and can see all the details of the action.

 

Little Bubba and Little Bobo have passed but I'm still kicking as long as I maintain my purity with dialysis or a Kidney transplant

Problems with password every time my computer updates

When you rotate the key it should sound like this :


Do you have a dedicated large woven ground strap at one of the starter mounting bolts to the car frame ?

M ' Lady P with the inline 6 does .
'
Otherwise you are relying on a ground path through somewhere that has degraded over the years

Was the new starter solenoid a Bosch stamped manufacture , black in color , with the part number also stamped into the metal

Non - Bosch solenoids gave me trouble

" Yes I got the Bosch remanufactured starter, is there a known problem with them " The original starter is a common Bosch 110 series with the specific bolt pattern for the specific engine block / bell housing if you get the Bosch [size=13px]solenoid[/size] in remanufacture is if Bosch [size=13px]monitors[/size] the 3rd party well enough . The problems I was having was the [size=13px]solenoid[/size] output terminal post was a almost direct ground to case resulting in the battery cable reading 9.5 volts . This 9.5 volts would spin the crankshaft for days but the voltage was too low to properly run the ECU .

0 331 303 098 - 598 there is only one dash as the rest are spaces between

# 4 left Starter Solenoid relay part # LNA6706AA for swapping options is the same as A/C clutch , both wiper , fog , both headlights

https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/part/id/C50.C5064.C5064317.C50643173823/brand/jaguar/
The crash switch from reading can be fickle and not even reset and can be jumped with a paper clip between the 2 white wires

This can be seen on page 40 of the wiring guide

The ignition switch must make from pin 1 to 5 which is a car frame ground that can be disturbed





Editing

 

Do you have a dedicated large woven ground strap at one of the starter mounting bolts to the car frame ?

M ' Lady P with the inline 6 does .
'
Otherwise you are relying on a ground path through somewhere that has degraded over the years

Was the new starter solenoid a Bosch manufacture , black in color , with the part number stamped into the metal

I have the number in the garage that will retrieve later

 

Thanks for this, very useful!
I'm diving into the ski slope a little later today. I did remove the 4 screws on the gearshift cover and loosen the gearshift knob retainer (will try to remove the wooden knob today without damaging. My car has everything overtightened on it or I am getting weaker, wouldn't budge yesterday). I noticed some sort of black sealer on left of shifter cover which suggests the strong and a little clumsy previous owner has been in there making 'adjustments' above linear switch area...

As the right side exhaust is off I warned my neighbors they may hear an aircraft engine if/when I get it started, I would love to hear that sound today!

 

The good news: got the ski slope off, found a twenty dollar bill, PO shopping list and a lot of dog hair. Cleaned everything up and gave the microswitch a tweak and sprayed liberally with electrical cleaner. Result is relay clicks from the left side fusebox and so does the relay just above the interlock.

Video of clean microswitch, forgot to turn ignition on

The bad news: no lights on the center gear console even when I turn headlights on and no reaction from the starter motor when I try to crank still.

Given the linear switch gives permission for the starter to fire I'm wondering whether to 'adjust' - ie jiggle - a loosened linear switch in hopes of seeing lights or whether the sealed P R D unit is fritzed for some reason. I haven't been under the car today to recheck continuity, I was going to ground out the starter to see if that is the issue.

Lack of shifter lights combined with good new fuses and clicking relays suggests the fault is at the interlock...

 

The linier switch can get fluids inside as they are delicate contact fingers like the rotary switch under the floorpan . you can clean it with an eraser