Hello All,

thank you again for your support.
no matter the subsequent issues I face (height sensors sensitivity etc)
as stated by Don, I should focus on finding where the leakage is ...
i have checked both front dampers, on the top using the soapy water, no bubbles.

should I check the manifold block valve ?
any other point I need to check ?

thanks
Antoine

 

Hi Antoine,

Yes, do check the air hose fittings at the valve block and reservoir, and also at the compressor. Be especially careful with the fitting at the compressor - the threads in the compressor are notoriously weak and easily stripped.

Cheers,

Don

 

If one becomes frustrated and chooses to replace every potential vulnerable part in the air suspension system (having already confirmed the air shocks are fine and the compressor works)

• what are the part numbers / names?
• how difficult is it to replace these?
• what are some weak areas (such as the comment above about the fitting with the compressor?

Before I got into Jaguars, I collected Alfa Romeos and Bristols. The 1960's Alfa's got bad press for breaking down a lot. So I went to the best indy shop in the region and paid him to tell me every part that tended to fail. I would then spend about $1,500 (back when boattail Alfas sold for about $7,000), replace every part within my skill or tool set and drop it off at the Indy to do stuff I couldn't do. The Alfa would then run flawlessly for 20 years... Still have the 1969 Spider and it's in the garage where I am doing my second round of replace-even-if-it-looks-good.

Nowadays we have forums to turn to, so as a recent Jag purchaser with the droopy front shock disease, what do I need to buy if I will replace all the bits except the two obvious ones (shocks and compressor)?

 

So exactly how much are you going to pay me if I spend the hours required to research a complete parts list for you?

You can research the parts yourself at jaguarlandroverclassicparts.com.

However, there really are only a few common problem areas:

1. The air springs/dampers develop air leaks and the dampers wear out; The best option available is the OE Bilstein B4. Rock Auto has the best pricing I know of when they have them in stock, but you're still looking at around $3,000.00 plus labor to replace all four.

2. The compressor develops issues. Usually all that is required to restore it's proper function is to replace the Teflon piston ring with bagpipingandy's kit and clean the corrosion out of the valves. Occasionally the cylinder head bore is scored if the compressor is not rebuilt soon enough.

3. The air hose fittings develop leaks, usually due to the compression fittings/ferrules/"olives" digging in to the plastic air hoses. Jaguar's solution is to cut 12mm off the end of the air hose with Blue Point hose cutters (so the end is cut as close to square as possible), and install a new olive.

4. On some cars the valve block develops issues, probably due to moisture ingress causing corrosion in the valves. Used units are widely available from cars that have been wrecked or converted to coils.

Cheers,

Don

 

Hi Don, Noting the emoticon, I appreciate the comment is made with humour, but let me make a pitch anyway...

I belong to a number of car forums, and whenever I complete a shade-tree repair (as opposed to paying the dealer), I do a "pay forward" when I am done.

For example, see https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19167 which I wrote up on Friday after completing what should have been a simple job, but was not due to the vendor sending wrong parts.

I list
.

• the initial problem that prompted me to attend to the car and cite useful feedback from other forum members
• the necessary parts by OEM number and if aftermarket, the brand and their part number
• the vendor who sold them to me
• the cost of the parts and the shipping
• a candid assessment of the vendor especially when something goes wrong and the vendor does or does not make it right
• what was involved in parts removal, especially when in older cars, corrosion, for example, can make a simple job hard
• shortcuts that work, tools that work, even if not specified by the manufacturer
• before and after photographs, showing details that were difficult to find online
• any other notes or alerts

In this way, the next owner benefits from my experience, and from the comments subsequent forum members make that improves on my approach. Of course, I'm not the only one who does this, and when I find a posting I am so appreciative... like the time I spent three months being plagued with a Christmas tree display on my Mercedes SLK throwing me into limp mode while showing not just check-engine, but saying my brakes were bad, ABS had failed and a zillion other things only to discover the soldering joints in the computer throwing off the codes develop hairline cracks. Replace or repair the computer and the problem solved. It took a long time to find that posting, so when I did my pay forward, I put a lot of SEO keywords for future owners.

I do this because while much information is online, it can be cluttered, laced with recycled ignorance and forum members who seem to feel posting "I don't know" comments is necessary. Often my first post in a forum asks for help, but when I am done, instead of leaving the solution at the end of the thread, I start a new thread so the forum member looking for an answer finds it. I avoid videos because I find it annoying to listen to 8 minutes of Hey guys, wazzup to get to the 14 seconds that matter, thus I expect others would be equally annoyed at me.

From your answer, it sounds like the air shock system consists of shocks, compressor, air lines and valve block. Thus, excluding the two biggies, it looks like a relatively simple system.

Now if I were doing a functional restoration (replace stuff that tends to fail when it gets old, whether it needs it or not, it sounds like I would buy items 3, 5, 7, 8, 18, 19 20, in the list below, found at https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.../brand/jaguar/

Correct? Are these parts that can be bought anywhere, or dealer only?

While the dropped shocks are only an annoyance at this time, if I do attack them (I have three spare air shocks that came with the car from someone who eliminated their CATS suspension), I will do a pay forward at the end.

 

Hi x350,

Just for clarity, my answer to your question was not intended to provide a complete summary of the air suspension and ECATS system, but to highlight common trouble points.

For my summary of the complete system, see the post at this link:

Air Suspension & ECATS System Summary: Components & Operation

Some of the links are not currently fully functional, but that's one of the hazards of trying to pay it forward.

Cheers,

Don

 

As an aside, I don't know of anyone who would do this (every), given the expense.
(apart from barn finds on valuable cars or something)

 

The key word is vulnerable. The X350/351 series is a very different car thanks to Ford injecting a billion dollars and then making the car out of aluminium. Unlike its predecessors overall it is well built and stands a very good chance of becoming a classic with a U-Curve value (and presently close to the bottom). As the poorly maintained cars end up in the wrecking yards, the survivors will become more valuable (provided internal combustion engine cars are not outlawed or petrol/gasoline becomes hard to find). But also as they get to this age things begin to fail due to age. That's when the collective knowledge of a forum becomes the go-to source for keeping the cars in good running condition.

In the X350 range, the last thing one would want to buy is a barn find (the last one of those I bought was a Bristol 405 Drophead... one of a total of 42 made, this one spent 20 years in a tobacco farm in Connecticut before I bought it. The factory in England restored it to new condition... but I digress).

The most desirable would be a widow's car. Husband bought the car when he retired at 65 in 2005. At 81 he died, and his wife wants to sell his beloved car in the garage that was driven 100 miles a week to the golf course (including ten miles on the freeway at 60 mph), but never in rain or snow, serviced by the dealer, and now has 80,000 gentle miles on it. Will it need work? Of course, and the prudent thing to do first is replace the bits that just get old and brittle due to the passage of time.

I had read Don's ECATS summary, and it is an outstanding piece of work, but it is so comprehensive that it doesn't answer the question I asked. What are the known weak bits?

It is known that the shocks and compressor will need replacement from time to time, so an owner can budget for it. Then there are parts that will not need replacing unless they are damaged as opposed to normal use. Indeed most parts in a well-cared for car do not need replacing. But every car has some bits that are known to fail where one can wait until it happens (usually as the family is heading out for a holiday and all the repair shops are closing), or one can get a list, buy them in advance (meaning from the online vendor with the best prices, not the dealer) and install them all at the same time. When a part of the car is already being taken apart, that's the time to replace all the weak bits in that area because often taking the car apart and putting it back together is the most costly part of getting to the target.

Since this was a thread on the air suspension, I was asking about what tends to fail. From Don's answer, it seems to be items 3, 5, 7, 8, 18, 19 20 in the drawing, mostly related to the tubes and bits connected to the tubes.

And for your amusement, here is a before and after of the barn-find Bristol. The jack was necessary to get the car on the trailer because the chassis was so rusted it was falling down.



When Bristol Cars finally collapsed last year and was broken up and sold at auction, I sold my last Bristol, a 1970 411-S1 and began to look for a more modern replacement at the bottom of the U-curve where parts availability was still reasonable. Found a 2004 XJ6 in nice shape for very little money being sold by a collector with 13 cars, not enough garage space and a record showing what parts he had replaced. Now I am beginning my Jaguar education (I did own a S-type, but I bought that from an 83 year old who lost his garage space when they sold house, thus that car was like new, nothing ever went wrong with it), hence my participation in this forum.

 

The tubes almost never fail. Someone working carelessly can break them, but they are sturdy. The air fittings at the shocks and the valve assembly can fail, which is a pretty simple fix. The compressor can be reconditioned for about 50 to 60 bucks plus your time and labor, and while reconditioning, don't do just the piston ring and seals in the bagpipeandy kit, buy some desiccant and replace that, too. The valves and passages in the compressor might be badly rusted as water collects after the desiccant is used up. It might be worth replacing the compressor altogether rather than refurbishing.

Similarly, the solenoid valves in the valve body could be corroded from water. There really isn't any way to get water out of the system except hoping for the best as air is pumped through once the compressor has new desiccant. I have no idea if the valves can be serviced individually, or if the valve body has to go as an assembly.

Of course the shocks themselves go after a few years. they might develop leaks in themselves.

So a refurbishment of the air system would entail fittings, compressor, shocks, and valve body, probably in that order. You'll never need to replace the tubing unless someone has been careless, which of course, does happen.

 

I am not sure that cars like X350's will ever become collectors.
They are too "modern", too many of them, too complex in terms of electronics, to really become must-haves in the future of the automotive world with more and more constraints, as you point out, regarding the outlawing of ICE cars.
Maybe very rare cars, sports cars and top luxury cars of that generation may be considered, but not even sure...
IMHO, X350's should be used and well maintained for all the comfort and pleasure of driving such nice cars, ...while still possible...

 

You may be right - we live in times of an uncertain future when it comes to cars. The oldest car I own is 52 years old and I can still get parts and still fill it up at the local petrol station.

50 years from now, it is hard to imagine. There were 83,566 X350s made. Compare this to the E-type: 67,300 were made. Will we see more of these: https://www.jaguar.co.nz/about-jagua...ic-e-type-zero)?

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

I suspect you have a strut leaking. There are two failure modes. Top of strut leaks, temperature related. The other is the o-ring or seal inside. The Jaguar struts have more topseal problems but the internal seal fails also.
But.
I have an Audi A8 that has struts similar to XJ Jaguar. They do not leak at the top.Both front struts failed at around 15 years and 100,000 miles. Went from fine to sitting on the ground in a day. RMT rebuilt both and it has been fine since.
You may have internal leak. Once that leaks it goes fast.

 

Possibly. The person who sold me the XJ6 included three struts. He bought them from someone who removed them in favour of Arnott springs, but when he put them on the front end, it made no difference. The car would still drop over a few days. His mechanic could find no air leaks using the soapy water test. That's why I was asking what the other bits are... sometimes it's better to just replace everything that commonly fails rather than just the one already failed. BTW, the temperature in NZ is always mild. Figure 19-23° (66°-73°F)

 

A few of our members have also had an air spring bladder burst suddenly, so that's at least a third failure mode, though not one x350 is currently dealing with.

 

The leak is slow (at least three days). How would I diagnose an o-ring or seal inside?

 

Send lcmjaguar a private message to see if he is still willing to loan out his test gauge set. I borrowed his, then built my own set based on his design. The gauges help you to quickly pinpoint which air spring is leaking:

Air Suspension Shock Tester for Leaks for Loan

Cheers,

Don

 

That means if you drove it daily then you would never know.
(hoping I don't cause a stampede of paranoid daily drivers)

Mine with a slow leak like that, self-repaired over many months. Which I would put down to a valve i.e. a moving part that self-cleared.
That's how I became a member of the 3-finger club. (you can tell an X350 driver because they run around seeing how many fingers fit above the tyres)

Another thing. When my car did regularly go down after being left, it would pump up again merely by unlocking (once anyway) and no immediate use of the compressor. This indicated the reservoir was holding air fine. (the compressor wouldn't work anyway unless the engine is running, and I think I've heard the compressor running without actually driving as some sources state)

 

That electric E-Type is an abomination. The point of an E-Type is historical significance, it's not actually that great nowadays (was at the time but not compared to modern sports cars). Has everyone forgotten the very poor "cockpit" ventilation? The ease of doing...oh never mind.
OTOH, that Bristol restoration is a real credit to you!

Disclosure of Interest: I may be one of the few to have written-off a Series 1 E-Type. But that's another story.

 

Exactly.
Btw, my car's compressor starts indeed while not yet driving if pressure in the reservoir is too low.