I think its embarrassing and a total failure of the system when a factory tech can't figure out the problem. This has been going on for months and still they can't figure it out. My problem still hasn't been resolved and at this point i just deal w it until the car is fully warmed up and it goes away. Ive owned BMW's for the last 10 years and NEVER has a factory service tech NOT been able to diagnose a problem and fix it. Jaguar can NEVER and will NEVER become a player on the big stage w BMW and MERCEDES. NEVER AGAIN DO I GET A JAGUAR ... !!!! G A R B A G E !

 

I do not think it is the car's fault. Most manufacturers have all sorts of issues with their vehicles.

For me the issue is lack of good Jaguar techs or any good techs, even the Dodge dealer that services my trucks has a crappy service department with techs that screw up something almost every time I get service.

Hopefully someone can offer some input regarding my previous post.

 

And I 'spose you are one of those folks the "has trouble wherever you go"! You think we're all stupid mostly because you expect everything to be cut and dried, staring us in the face. Sorry pal, the real world just ain't that way. And that doesn't only apply to the car business. A competent service person is also a detective, and......... some are better than others; one's body of experience may be more extensive than another. That doesn't make them stupid. Doctors, for instance, are no different either, ever watched that program House??

I don't know what business you are in, but you need to stop and contemplate for a while.

******************

Jahummer..........techs everywhere thank you for being so level-headed, patient, and trying to grasp what the other side is wrestling with!

My two cents.............

 

Steve,

What about my previous post??? A small update today, I spoke with a master tech at another Jag dealer and he does not think it is the plugs. He said the difference between the two banks means little. If there was a plug issue, there would be a code he said and suggested an ECU reflash.

 

Sorry Jahummer, I had to go do something else and chill a while......

I'm with the last guy for the most part. I don't want to forget about the +7% verses the +1%, but it is sort of common for the 4.2L engines to do that; and I've never been able to really put a conclusive thumb on why. Time after time the RH bank goes higher positive than the LH. One time moving the injectors side to side corrects it, sometimes nothing does, yet it may not affect the drivability at all. I've mentioned before that the non-supers are many times corrected by removing the intake plenum and replacing the metal gaskets. I have to assume they develop a minor leak down low where it can't really be conclusively detected. On the supers, we have resorted to replacing the various seals between the blower, the intercoolers and the bypass adapter. Rover supers especially seem to be affected by those induction seals and hoses, but the Jags are susceptible, too. Sometimes you hit pay dirt, sometimes you get poked in the eye!

I know that isn't much help, but this isn't Utopia Motors either, like our friend earlier would like.

Cheers,

 

Some folks just aren't meant to have Jaguars. It's for them that there are so many makes available. I have had many makes of cars and the Jaguars are no more trouble than any other and they are generally much nicer looking than the rest. Granted, they are expensive to repair, but so is my Audi and I have spent more per mile on it than all the Jaguars combined! A tricky problem such as this can be a challenge but could happen on any brand. I still think its a pulse width problem with an injector, and that is very hard to diagnose.

 

Thanks for the input as always. A leak hunt sounds like a difficult chase. I may do the plugs anyway, can't hurt and then I won't have to worry about them for a while.

As I have said many times, I typically lease cars so I don't have to deal with any of this and I like to change things up. Almost all hi-tech cars are going to need maintenance after so many years of driving, some don't seem to understand that or have made inaccurate judgements based on luck. I just love this car so much I'd like to keep it as new as possible. Hopefully I have not made a bad decision

 

Plugs from bank 2

 

Those plugs look like they have been burning lean.

 

Well Steve, despite what you and the master tech said, I figured it would not hurt to replace the plugs. It may be too soon and possibly coincidence but the motor is running a lot smoother no roughness stopped in gear. RPM at idle is higher too. The Bank 1 plugs were a bit wet with oil and a bit of carbon. Two of them took quite a bit of effort to remove. I'll take them to the dealer Monday for their thoughts. I still have rough idle for about a minute on cold starts which they think they can eliminate.

 

Whow, I have never seen plugs in such a bad state; they are just burning away ! It would be better to show all four as a comparison, plus a new one so everybody including those who have never seen a plug out, can see what has happened.

 

Good Grief,

I'm 67 and I've never seen plugs that badly eroded away. The two outer ones don't show a lot of fouling, but the white carbon build up on the centre two plus the completely eroded electrode is a little odd. Almost as if they are running too lean, but I can't figure the carbon deposits out. They don't look like oil carbon, it is usually fairly black. Way back when, before emission controls & catalytic converters etc, we use to just the state of the engine by the colour of the tailpipe. About that colour was usually a little lean, but almost right. Tailpipes today are usually a light chocolate when the engine is running right. It could be worth while taking a look at yours to see what colour it is. If it is very light, it might be an indication. Without looking back through the thread, how many miles have you got on the clock?

Cheers,

Languid

 

p.s. I just had another thought; it's almost as though the plugs are the wrong heat range for the engine.

Cheers,

Languid

 

Jahummer,

another question; are they in the order left to right (in the pic) rear to front? Or are they random?

Languid

 

xrguy, Brutal,

I keep looking back at those plugs, and the outers (in the photo) are running 'clean', but the two in the centre are fairly 'deposited'. I'm not experienced enough to ascertain which of the two outers is the correct 'burn' colour although I suspect the right hand one is closer to ideal than the left. In my experience, with factory standard mainfolds the outers always burn a little leaner than the inners. Thinking that through & given that the computer is going to look at air flow sensor, exhaust gas content, and throttle/power position to calculate what it thinks the fuel/air ratio should be, I'd reckon that there is an inlet manifold/plenum chamber air leak somewhere. (jahummer, I'd also guess that your fuel consumption is a bit higher than perhaps it should be). Looking at those plugs, the centre ones are being fed on a richer mixture than the outers, and the left outer looks a bit lean to me.

What do you guys' think?

Cheers,

Languid

 

Is the second from the left a different type or is it just the other way up ?

 

Am no experienced plug reader myself, but they clearly are not eroded at all. They do have some carbon buildup, but other than that they look fine to me from the pictures (would prefer to see them more detailed).

 

I do not think they are eroded but there are burnt oil deposits built up on the ground and electrodes, some worse than others. They had about 84K miles of use.

I will posts pics of bank 1 plugs, instead of having the tan coloured build up, they have some black carbon and were damp, with oil and 2 were a bit hard to remove.

 

They are all the same, NGK IFR.

 

The exhaust tips have always had black carbon build up and true of almost any car I have owned.