XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.

 
  #41  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:46 AM
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It will be interesting what effect the ceramic coating has on heat soak

I've been logging the temps prior to installing the intake
Results so far have the intake +10C over ambient and up to another 30 under load

I'm interested to see if the rise is slower and or the cool down is quicker.
The pump change will go on after that and ill be logging the results of that as well

Cheers
34by151
 
  #42  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:08 PM
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If you want to expand your market take a look at the SC 4.2L in the XF. I'd love to pick one up if you could make it split into two for the dual intake boxes on the SC XF. I really want to hear my SC whine! I'm sure others would be interested too.

 
Attached Thumbnails Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.-0803_01_z%252b2009_jaguar_xf_supercharged%252bengine.jpg  
  #43  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:42 AM
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Got a call today the intake is in the baking oven will be ready to collect tomorrow
Ill send pics one i pick it up. Hope the black ceramic looks as good as i expect it to

Cheers
34by151
 
  #44  
Old 04-18-2013, 12:26 PM
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cbharley10 & H20boy... any improvement in performance?
 
  #45  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:53 AM
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Intake tube installed

It looks a bit more glossy in the pics due to the flash, the coating is a semi gloss ceramic
Wasnt able to get a really good camera phone pic under the bonnet as the sun was going down and reflecting all over
Oh yeah the mark on the fist pic is just some water, well dog slobber to be accurate!!

I have not had a chance to get any results from the intake air temp as yet as I have only been on a 30min drive in traffic so far.

All the things reported by other are the same for me, anecdotal increase in power and more charge noise

After running in traffic for 30mins the tube was cool to touch.
This is due to the thermal barrier of the ceramic coating where everyting else was too hot to hold onto

All in all very happy with it so far. I will report back on charge air temps tomorrow

Cheers
34by151
 
Attached Thumbnails Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.-intake1.jpg   Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.-intake2.jpg   Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.-intake3.jpg   Stage 1 air intake tubes now available.-intake4.jpg  

Last edited by 34by151; 04-19-2013 at 02:56 AM.
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  #46  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:09 PM
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34by151,

Looks good, a few queries i have.

When you are measuring air temps where is that from exactly?

Surely the cast intake at the centre of the engine will have the biggest impact in air temp as it gets the hotest due to location?

The amount of time the air coming from the airbox into the engine spends exposed to the metal tube would make its effect on air temp negligible at best due to small relative surface area and transfer time?

I am sure this issue was covered in a post over on the S Type board but i cant find it at the moment.

In any event it does make the tube look more factory :-)
 
  #47  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:42 PM
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I'm using Torque on the Android

As you nay know I have upgraded my nav and touch screen.
So my nav is now android based.

One of the apps I have on it is Torque to monitor the ecu
From that I am monitoring the coolant and intake temps among other things

The intake temp is post after the intercooler and superchager and not in the intake tube
That OK because I'm looking at an overall effect anyway

The next step will be to upgrade the SC coolant pump and replace the hoses
I'll then do the SC oil change and possibly the pulley
I say possibly as I have a 3lb pulley on the way but not sure if I will fit it now.
I wont be fitting it till I do a SC bearing replacement anyway as I will have the snout off at that time and be able to machine it on my mill

I will report back when I get home tonight what the effect has been

Cheers
34by151
 
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  #48  
Old 04-19-2013, 09:29 PM
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I would like one. I am a lurker and don't have the post count to PM. Please email me at [email protected]
 
  #49  
Old 04-20-2013, 05:03 AM
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caldoofy,
Cambo also mentioned he was monitoring with the diag mode but im not sure how thatís done

Well I've driven with it now and done about 150km on the Hwy and in traffic.
It was a very cold rainy 17degC here today so results may be a premature due to the cold thicker air.

All in all I'm really surprised at the results and it gives me some good ideas for major improvements that will also be quite cheep to do

OK so before the intake I was getting intake temps at 10degC above ambient.

Now this is the lowest it idles down to. This is also consistant with results Cambo is getting with his modified intake.
So that tells me the intake itself has no effect on charge air temps.
Also any improvements that I see are down to the ceramic coating.

Results with stock intake
A flat out run from 0-120kph would get the temps up to 40degC above ambient
Cruising at 120 on the hwy would would produce temps 20degC above ambient
Stop Start traffic with little to no boost would get the temps to rise 20-30 deg above ambient. This would come down to the above once moving for a bit

Results with the ceramic coated intake
Crusing temp is 2degC above ambient (a 18deg reduction)
A flat out run from 0-120kph 18DegC above ambient (a 22Deg reduction)
Stop Start Traffic 8-20 DegC above ambient

Now the interesting figures are the stop start traffic.
I was wrapping my head on those for a while and am convinced its not the intake but the SC intercoolers.
When your stopped the radiator has no airflow at all, so the temps keep rising. Its not till you get moving for a bit they it has a chance to lower the coolant temps down.

I must also add that the intake tamps are not only lower now buat a lot slower to rise and much quicker to fall. This is consistent with a vast improvement in resisting heat soak on the ceramic coated intake tube. Its also consistent for the air flow on the SC cooler radiator.

So what is the next step, well fitting the upgraded SC coolant pump. Again I think this will improve the temps for the 0-120kph but im not going to get much more on cruise.
What will be interesting is stop start traffic with the new pump. I suspect this will just make the time delay longer, yes the pump will improve the cooling but if you have no radiator airflow you will get the same result given enough time.

I'm going to test the stop traffic effect tomorrow by just leaving the car idling in the garage but I will put a blower in front of the radiator. I expect to eliminate the stop start traffic effect with this, or at a minimum reduce it significantly

If this is true I'm going to work on a cooler fan setup for the SC radiator. The trick wont be the fitting the fans it will be designing the fan controller. I will need to tap into the Odb2 to do it with elegance and work in some intelligence but a thermocouple in the SC coolant lines connected to a relay will suffice for initial tests

PS next time I can get the Inter coolers off im going to ceramic coat those as well.
Id also do the intake manifold, SC housing and exhaust manifolds given the chance.

Cheers
34by151
 
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  #50  
Old 04-20-2013, 04:48 PM
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Hmmm interesting results you have there, still not sure how cermic coating something before the SC (which produces the heat) would have an effect on charge temps especially when the cast piece is still in place and right next to the s/c output tubes pre-coolers. I think you hit the nail on the head with the colder day and water mist from the rain being inducted possibly giving not entirely accurate results?

In a stationary situation the radiator will still cool the fluid within to a certain degree due to the large surface area exposed to ambient air, however this will eventually as you state heat up - solution have the fans run when stationary. I could only see this being an issue if you were drag racing the car where every bit helps but in a day to day situation the temps return to 'normal' quite rapidly.

Be interesting to see the effect of the full carbon intake when finished as this will fully stop heat transfer to inducted air including from the s/c output tubes.
 
  #51  
Old 04-20-2013, 08:12 PM
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Be interesting to see the effect of the full carbon intake when finished as this will fully stop heat transfer to inducted air including from the s/c output tubes.[/QUOTE]

Really Really Want One Of These Intake Tubes. How Far Out Are You On The Carbon Version? I'm Trying To Wait.. It's Hard Lol
 
  #52  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:12 PM
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Caldoofy,
Ive run a bunch more tests to day. I can confirm the results had nothing to do with the rain
Its a sunny 26degC here today, quite the opposite of yesterday and I have the same results

Results:
Ive focused on the stop start traffic results today in an effort to work out waht is going on and the simple answer is, as expected, its the Fast and High temp rise under the bonnet when stopped that causes the effect

As for the coating on the intake I have taken external temp measurements at each end and in the moddle of the intake using a thermocouple

I first tested in the garage at idle and saw quite high temp increases (around 80DegC) over ambient. But questioned these results as it did not seem high enough.

Adding a blower to the SC cooling did drop the intake temps slightly but not enough to make it a worthwhile project

So I took it out on the road and as expected the temps at the intake tube rose faster and higher when stopped at the lights.

Thinking about this I started some more tests moving the thermocouple probes around the around the engine bay. This was fairly easy as my temp meter has 6 thermocouple probes so I can take 6 readings at the same time

So where is the heat coming from, well 3 primary sources, the first 2 are as expected.
The first two are the exhaust manifold and the cats

As expected the heat mass from the manifolds moves down the tunnel when moving but rapidly heats the engine bay at rest. The same happens for the cats multiplying the generated heat from the manifolds.

The third source was the road itself. The heat from the tar surface at rest quickly passes through the underbody tray and radiating up adding to the issue. This is where ny garage tests were inaccurate in the real world

Where does the heat go:
Well simply down the tunnel and under the body. Now here and interesting thing related to speed. It wont start to dissipate heat on mass till you get to 45Kph.
Much to the looks of other drivers and me pulling over I did runs up to and held speeds from 20 to 80 kph in 5kph increments to gain these results

So its clear that a decat will also have a under bonnet cooling effect but at this time im guessing at aprox 15% of the combined cat/manafold increase. What is clear is that coating both the manifold and cats (including down tube) will bring a big result.
On the flip side it wont do much for temps at cursing speeds as the engine bay settles down to around ambient temps. It will make a big improvement on the speed it take to get there though as the overall temps under the bonnet will be much lower

To address Caldoofy's question re the cast section of the intake I did more tests
As you may know Jag has already lined this section of the XJR engine section with heat shields. These are mounted under the cover that encloses this cast section and both inter-coolers.

So what happens to the heat, well I repeated the tests with the cover off and as expected the heat soak is faster and larger.

In comparing the tests on heat soak gained from the intake tube, I repeated the same tests both with and without the cover. This time i mounted the probes to the 3 places on the cast intake tube and another 3 on on the same inter-cooler that has the intake air sensor.

What I have found is the cover is very effective in resisting the heat soak.
With the cover off results at the inter-cooler and the the cast intake are actually a bit worse than the at the intake pipe. This is due again to the proximity to the manifolds.

Under hood heat transfer:
When stopped The heat radiates up the firewall and then along the bonnet moving forward. The hottest is the top of the firewall at the back of the bonnet the lowest being diagonally opposite, lower radiator near the front.
So the main hot zone is as expected from the upper radiator at the front to the base of the trans tunnel to the top of the bonnet at the firewall

What happens with the cover on:
Well, the temps take a lot longer to rise and are lower. Same results as coating the intake tube. Now if you think about this the intake tube was the only part not protected previously.
At the cast intake and the inter-coolers with the cover on, I am getting a 70% reduction in the speed of the heat buildup and 30% lower temps as compared to the cover off. So its clear the heat shield is there for a reason.

Next Steps:
1. Ceramic coat the the exhaust manifolds, cat tubes and decat
2. When I have the SC off to do the pulley and replace the bearings I'll coat the cast intake, sc body and the inter-coolers.
I donít expect coating the SC parts to have the same gains as the intake tube as it already protected but a second barrier cant hut with slowing the speed of the heat soak.

I will qualify that in saying I will do it only when the parts are off the engine for other reasons. It may not be needed as I coating the exhaust parts will negate most of the issue in the first place. Prevention is better than a cure and all that.

3. Upgrade the SC coolant pump. I have the new pump now but what I have done first is fit the thermocouple probes in the SC cooling system. I have probes at the radiator, pump and both sides of the intercooler. All I have done to fit theme is remove the coolant pipe, slide the probe in and reattach the pipe. The probes are wire type so they are at the end of the thin wire. IE not the metal rod type.
I want to get a clear idea of how the SC water cooling is operating and hat the temps are under the same conditions as the rest of tests. From that point I will fit the new pump and repeat the tests. that way I will know what the actual gains are.

Cheers
34by151
 
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  #53  
Old 04-21-2013, 05:17 AM
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Awesome writeup!

Just to be clear, I was monitoring the Engine Coolant Temperature via the Engineering Test Mode in the instrument cluster (hold down the button on the indicator stalk while starting the engine, release once started after about 5 seconds) http://jaguar.bttlxe.com/xtype/Addit...%20Cluster.pdf unfortunately you can't monitor the charge coolers from the dash.

But you can monitor the charge cooler temps, as well as the IAT's and just about every other sensor in the car with the IDS/SDD, but I haven't had much time to play with that yet.

The charged air out of the s/c is HOT. You can feel the temperature difference between the body of the charge coolers, and the outlet manifold from the s/c, the inlet of the charge coolers is very hot, with temps reducing as you move further down to the tank part of the charge cooler.

It's my feeling, that a lot of the heat in the cast alloy intake tube (between the charge coolers) is radiated from the outlet manifold of the s/c. That outlet manifold would be a prime candidate for ceramic coating, as well as doing the cast intake tube.

Coating the s/c housing might be going a little too far. I'd be concerned about the internals of the s/c getting too hot. I don't have anything to back that up, it's just a feeling. These are just my opinions, it's all speculation on my part.

Very interesting to note that the engine cover makes a positive difference on the intercooler temps! So yeah maybe ceramic coating of the charge coolers will improve that effect even more...

Can't wait for your next update 34by151.

Caldoofy, get that Stage 2 in CF finished! Just make sure that it fits under the engine cover...
 
  #54  
Old 04-21-2013, 06:36 AM
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Just to clarify

The air path is
Airbox, intake pipe, Cast intake pipe, S/C, Inter-cooler output pipe, Inter-coolers, heads

The Intake air temp sensor (IAT) is located at the output of one on the inter-coolers
So the ultimate gauge is the IAT and the goal is to have the lowest temp

As for heating the air the direct source is the SC with the inter-coolers cooling it down. Add to that the direct efficiency of the intercoolers is its coolant system. The Inter-coolers do a very good job getting temps as close as possible to ambient as possible

The tests I made were to determine where there is big gains to be made.

increasing the coolant efficiency will have an effect on lowering change air temps. Of this there is no doubt but it does not address the heat soak issues that also raise the temps.

Adding a barrier will slow this heat soak effect and also reduce the recovery time. As heat soak effect is slowed the temps at the IAT are lower for longer. As the temps are lower for the same amount of time the recovery speed is increased even further

I'll also clarify the exposed section of the cast intake (as seen with the engine cover on) is not actually exposed. With the bonnet down its protected by the bonnet heat shield

So other than the coolant, the remaining gains are in two places.
The first is protection, coating the manifolds and pipes this is where 90% of the remaining gains are. The second is the cast intake section
The reason to coat the manifold and pipe is simple, remove the heat source in the first place.

As noted I would coat any of the remaining intake parts give the chance. IE I had them off to rebuild. I'm not about to pull them to do this just for that reason. I am also only talking about external coating not internal

I will also qualify this applies to heat soak there are little gains when traveling over 45Kph. This is unless you have been sitting in traffic and superheated the parts and engine bay. IE cool down time

So short version conclusions from tests are
Coat the intake tube, fit the upgraded water pump and coat the manifold and pipes.
All very simple and cheep things to do. Also these are the things Jag missed doing. The rest is "good enough" so gains are small

And remember the lower intake air temp the more hp you make
I'm also not including any future gain that may be made in air flow that may come about with the "Stage 2" intake setup

Cheers
34by151
 
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  #55  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:29 PM
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Default Cold Air Intake Tube

I want to order one of these for my 05 XJR.

Could you email me. [email protected]

Thank you
 
  #56  
Old 05-12-2013, 10:46 AM
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Cool

I Want Carbon, I Want Carbon..Lol. I'm definitely Holding Out For The Carbon Version. Any Updates?

Thank You, Calvin
 
  #57  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:28 AM
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ive been looking every where and cant find wher to buy the stage 1 air intake pipe?
 
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:36 AM
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wheere can i buy the stage 1 id like to purchase 1 for m,y 2003 STR
 
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:10 PM
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id like to buy the intake pipe what do i do ?
 
  #60  
Old 06-25-2013, 03:08 AM
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Send caldoofy a personal message and ask to purchase one, scroll up and click on his name for the PM link. Also, no need to post 3x in succesion to prompt a quicker reply.
 

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