Hi all,

We currently own both an x350 and an X100. For all around comfort and usability the x350 clearly comes out on top for us. We are in the market for a third vehicle and naturally want to stick with flagship Jaguar models because we have had such good experiences with them (thought the wife is eyeing the Range Rovers, I am not much of one for gas guzzling SUV's). I know there are more than a few people in this forum who have owned older XJ's like the series 3, so I'd like opinions of the previous or current owners of both.

Reliability of an x350 will be hands down better, but it seems like most of the series 3's still on the road have more or less been maintained to stay on the road up until now. Finding one that is not a rust bucket has been a chore so far.

We have considered the x300 for reliability or an xj40, but feel that it may be a compromise of what we are really looking for.

As far as overall comfort of your x350 compared to a series 3, what has been your experience? Head room is one of my concerns with any older XJ (I'm 6'1"), especially after owning the x100. I sat in a series 3 a few weeks ago and it certainly is tight compared to the x250.

We would like something a little more "classic" feeling, but with how advanced the series 3 was for its time (fuel injection, disc brakes, etc), does it really feel like a classic?

IMO as far as styling goes, the x350 is one of the most beautiful sedans Jaguar produced, and their classic styling cues blended well, like the headlamps/taillamps, wood dash, etc. It is subjective, but does the series 3 in your opinions have that much more of an eye catching style, or do you think most any flagship Jaguar is going to pull same amounts of attention (this last question is more for business advertising purposes)?

I think that's all the questions so far, I'll ask more as they come up. Me thinks the only way to really know and get this itch out is to buy one of each, but I don't think the wife will go for several more sedans in the driveway.

 

I had a Series 3 for 14 years. It was a 1980-built car, so the build quality was really appalling, shocking even. However that was the nadir of these cars, and those built between about 1983-86 were streets ahead better, because in the early 80s, Jaguar were finally released from the British Leyland yoke and their new boss, John Egan, made a serious attempt to sort the cars out before they had no customers at all.

It must be said, though, that with the last car leaving the factory some time in early 86, the youngest one you can possibly get with the six cylinder engine is over 30 years old. The 5.3 litre V12s soldiered on until 1992 with Jaguar making about 50 a week, but I'm not sure if these were sold in the USA. If they were, there obviously won't be many around, but these were a magnificent car, and one I'd like to own and drive, but the fuel consumption is huge and our petrol prices in the UK very high, (around £1.19 a litre). For a US citizen fuel costs won't be an issue.

Rust is the main enemy of these cars, everything else is fixable and at not too high a price either.

I hope Doug Dwyer can chime in on ths thread as he is a great enthusiast for these cars. They give a magic carpet ride, are not complex and are reasonably easy to fix, especially for a chap who is a DIYer.

 

I had an 83 4.2 Series 3, it was a beautiful car, but unfortunately it was nothing but problems. Spent more time in the repair shop than on the road. My friends had the nickname for it, the lounge on wheels. The ride was excellent once new shocks and bushes were installed. However, my X350 XJR is far more reliable, couldn't even compare them.

Issues I noted:
The Lucas electrics were always failing and had to be replaced with Bosch.
The cooling system was inadequate for the Sydney summer, had to upgrade to bigger aluminum radiator.
They rust around the corners of the front and rear windows.
Constantly leaked oil and coolant.
The studs that hold the head down pass through the water jackets, these corrode and snap off if coolant isn't maintained correctly.
Cast iron block with aluminum heads, tended to be front heavy.
Borg-Warner gear box had to be rebuilt.
Bonnet pins release when driving and bonnet kept popping up.

I would stay away from the earlier models if you wanted a series 3, also the Borg-Warner gear boxes are only 3 speeds, they could have done with a few more gears. From memory the XJ12 was better, however, they suffered from fuel leaks over the engines & some caught on fire.

 

I've owned a few VDP Series III. +1 on getting input from Doug Dwyer and you might want to pose the question on that sub forum. If I was going to do it again, and I'm not:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...#&gid=1&pid=36

The website, not necessarily this particular car. You want mint, look here.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. The only Series 3’s I was looking at were the last few years produced. I know MPG will be sub par, but I figured depending on how decent of a deal you get, depreciation should be very little compared to an x350, and with the purchase price being less it would more easily allow for parts replacements that would surely come with a 30 year old car.

Doug’s posts have been very helpful here on on Jag Lovers Forum. I think the most telling pattern I’ve seen on the Series 3 forum is the people who think those are the last of the “real” Jags stick with them, and the ones that don’t, they buy a newer XJ for updated mechanics and new bells and whistles. What I’ve noticed is I don’t really see people go from a Series 3, to a newer model XJ, then again back to a series 3...and that makes me really wonder if the newer XJ’s are overall just “better,” whatever better means to that person. From the three responses here from people who have owned the Series 3 and also an x350, I’m gathering that 2 if not 3 of you guys would not go back to a series 3 (V12 engine not included).

One of my main concerns with an older XJ is that I’m afraid it will let me down after owning such a great x350. It would really be hard to beat my current model as it has been one of the nicest yet most trouble free cars I have ever owned. I’m afraid most of my decision making process will be subjective and a personal choice, but I wanted to hear from other’s who have owned both models to compare.

 

As the series III appears to be rather large, the cockpit is cramped (for me at least - 6'3" 185 lbs). The cabins are not quiet, not remotely compared to your x350. They leak oil. They rust like there's no tomorrow. The wood is usually poorly cared for by previous owners. The leather has a lacquer finish and is usually beyond repair. The rear brakes are inboard. You ultimately want to be pretty handy with cars to own one (any car) that old.

Yes I agree there are purists and parts are cheaper on the older models to be sure. You may not be disappointed but only you know your expectations. If you're expecting it to ride as smoothly, you will be extremely disappointed comparative to what you own now.
It's easy to be critical of the model. Heck, they're 30 years old. Take any 30 year old sedan, even one completely rebuilt and it will not be a smooth or quiet as your current ride. You also have to define classic. If your back aches after an hour of driving, you're in a classic:-) I was once offered a 65 vette on the cheap from a banker's wife. THey are stunning but one of the most miserable rides in the world. Point is everything has it's ups and downs. Series I -III has many "project cars" for sale. Just go in with your eyes wide open.
Opinions are like elbows, most of us have a couple. I can give you several reasons why not to buy. I agree the Series III is beautiful. I would never rely on one as a daily driver. I wouldn't take a road trip in one and the trunk should always have some tools. But I got more complements in them than anything other than my X150.

 

And that is why I wanted to pick your brains about this. I’ve read on more than one occasion about the Series 3 “velvety” ride and stories of hardly hearing a train go by with the windows up. I’m sure they were good for their time but compared to our models it sounds like they are quite behind. Which really shouldn’t surprise me at all, since it is a 30 year old car. But the Jaguar IRS from those cars are popular swaps into hot rods so I didn’t know just how good the ride was. Some days I think my x350 could ride better, so if it’s not nearly as good I would indeed be disappointed for a Jaguar. And the interior noise? I would have guessed that was better on the Series 3, too. Those are two of the main reasons I like Jaguars. I will agree they are classier in an antique car kinda way, and seeing how much oil they drip was really an eye opener. I’ve been around American classics plenty, but not British.

I’m sure they would still be a good project car, but I didn’t want unrealistic expectations going in, if I do. Perhaps I should have posted more specific questions about how it compares in ride, noise, etc to our models, as those were some of my primary concerns. The above posted is a fair assessment. Thanks again Sean.

 

Hi chillyphilly,

I haven't owned a Series III, but I've serviced and driven them, and I think Sean has really summed it up. In my opinion, the Series III is one of the most beautiful, perfectly-proportioned saloons in automotive history. I've been tempted to buy one more than a few times, but it's really from another era and is best used as an occasional pleasure craft.

For a daily driver, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another X350, and around here the prices are so low that they are one of the greatest bargains in the luxury-performance category.

Cheers,

Don

 

I am surprised no one voted for X300/x308. They have the classic Jaguar lines and are dependable.

 

I used to have a 1973 Daimler Double Six Series 2. Lovely car, had one bank of the V12 drop out one day due one of the (many) SU carburetor vacuum lines coming off and it still did 70mph. Sold it due rust and failing electrics. For all its good features, it wasn't a patch on my current XJ8L in terms of ride, noise or performance. Add fuel consumption and reliability to that and it's no argument in my book.

 

I wouldn't bother with the Series 3 XJ; it's neither one thing (the original XJ), nor the other (the best XJ). The X350 / X358 is superior in every way. I have no idea what they sell for on your side of the pond, but I recently was very happy to sell my really good X350 XJ6 for £2,350, so they haven't much further to depreciate, and may well start to climb in value now, given their reliability, rust free shells, and the fact that not everyone (including me), cares for the X351 shape.

 

I've owned both a Series III and a XJ40, and to compare them to the X350 isn't really a fair comparison. Trying to find an older one that has been well kept and first or second owner is rather hard these days. I actually drove my current X350 half-way across the country after months of careful selection, finding one that had been garage kept it's entire life.

 

I describe the Series III as "The most modern of all antique automobiles" . I suspect other Series III enthusiasts will appreciate that sentiment and non-enthusiasts probably won't. I use the word 'sentiment' quite intentionally. There's a subjective and emotional aspect to all this.

That tightly-proportioned cabin isn't a detriment. Not at all. That's what gives the driver the cozy, secure feeling. You're not cramped, you're ensconced.

These cars were massively overweight given their actual physical dimensions....but that's part of the "Built like a tank and drives like velvet" thing.

See what I'm driving at here?

I drove an XJR/6 for many years. Wonderful car. Certainly superior to an old Series III by any objective measurement. It made perfectly good sense to move up to the X300 after many years of (very happily) driving a Series III. I liked it well enough to put 171000 miles on it...so that says something. BUT, as good as it was, there was no je ne sais quoi. It just never felt very "Jaguar-ish" to me. After realizing that not everything in life needs to "make perfectly good sense" and am now back into a Series III. Go figure!

However.....now that I'm done with all that gushy stuff....

Running a Series III today wouldn't be for everybody. These are OLD cars. Owner involvement WILL be needed. The upside is that almost all repairs on these cars are well within DIY territory. Old school, old tech stuff. And they can be utterly reliable. I drove one as a daily driver for about 8 years and 100k miles and was never on the back of a tow-truck. But it takes some commitment to bring one up to that level of reliability and keep it there. If you don't derive pleasure from that, it's the wrong car for you. Actually, I'd say that any 25-30-35 year old car would be the wrong car for you.

Running out of time, gotta get on with the day.....

Quickly, though, I add that the X300s are touted as an excellent choice for those wanting to step back in time a bit. And rightfully so; they earned and deserve the better reputation that they enjoy. However, IMO, caution is needed here as well. Time and miles eventually take a toll on any car and there are lots of not-very-well-kept examples floating around out there. As good as the X300 is, the gloss eventually wears off...literally and figuratively speaking. We'll be seeing more and more of them fall into the 'requires owner involvement' category.

Cheers
DD

 

I think so, too.

Nowadays they're a rare sight on the road but, oh my, what a sight to see, eh?

"From another era"....and all the good and bad that goes with it

Cheers
DD

 

I own 2 Series III and 1 Series II, none of them functional at the moment. The 85 Series III was my daily driver from 1998 to 2005 at which time I put 100,000 miles. Wonderful car to drive. Not fast by any stretch but plush and very comfortable.

As other's have said, these cars are for DIYers. Too finicky to be driven by non enthusiasts. Weak points is the engine bay wiring harness including the fuel injector electrical wires - I rebuilt mine from scratch and overnight all my electrical problems vanished. Another one is those damn fuel injector rubber hoses - they do deteriorate and they do need to be replaced frequently. The engine will leak and you will have to live with it. Period. Unless you pull the engine out. Radiator, water pump, starter and alternator are things that I replaced. The slush box is archaic but will last forever if properly maintained. I did replace the head gasket while the engine was in the car - separating the head from the block was a nightmare - head studs live in coolant, they deteriorate and stick to both the block and head.

I do have plans to bring my 85 back to life - the engine is out and have rebuilt it but have not yet tested it or installed it. Way too many other projects.

 

I have three late 80s Series IIIs and an 06 Super V8. The SV8 does not have the sweet ride of a series III, possibly due to 19" wheels with less side wall VS 15" wheels with tall side walls, but it may also be related to the SV8's 140k miles and known age related bushing issues.

Right now only my 86 Daimler Double Six is road worthy; my 87 XJ6 has an as yet unknown no-start problem and my 85 Sovereign may have a locked up engine or starter which occurred when I was trying to diagnose its refusal to keep running after I pulled it into the garage to work on a seemingly unrelated failed fuel return valve problem. I love(d) driving my second hand, high mileage, SV8, but it is also currently sidelined with a head gasket leak that is much more labor and $$$ intensive to repair than an XK6 engine.

So...The X350 is a better highway car, even with a harsher ride, and has many nice bells and whistles like adaptive cruise control, forward and reverse parking sensors, heated seats and steering wheel, Navigation, better gas mileage, air bags, and 400 Hp. However it also has more complicated systems, something like six different computers, and many more things to go wrong over time that can confound a poor DIY owner. A jaguar specific code reader is a must unless you have very deep pockets.

Both models bring compliments from folks who recognize the leaper on the SV8 and the beauty of the series III body (art for your driveway, Fenders like hips under silk, ect.) and both will entice you to turn and look back as you walk away after parking. The series III gets more thumbs up from others on the highway (maybe it is the antique auto license plate) and either is a pleasure to drive when all is working as it should, but the X350 has more creature comforts that will spoil you and make you wish the Series III had some of them under its 20 year older belt.

Perhaps the best of both worlds is to have one of each - one to drive and one to work on (alternatively as the need arises). I myself, however, have learned the truth of the saying that the most expensive car you can own is a cheap Jaguar. I am not saying which is which - they might be listening.

 

Perhaps it was my particular 140K mile 06 SV8 with 19" wheels, but the ride is not nearly as good as a late 80s XJ6 or DD6 and that was a surprise to me. I remember driving my Mother-in-law in my then 11 year old "new to me" 87 XJ6 and as we approached a railroad crossing she said, "You have to slow way down for this bump.....Oh, ... Never mind." as we crossed it at speed. I found the SV8 harsh in comparison.

However, when my wife was visiting and driving that same mother-in-law in the 9 year old "new to us" SV8, she said whenever they started to pull out of a parking lot her mother would say, "hit it." Until, that is, one time when traffic was clear and she actually did HIT IT! Her mother never said it again.

Two years ago a fellow asked if my 85 sovereign was a "new car", and I agree that the series IIIs get more comments and compliments than the X350. Only my 74 E-type out-does them in the thumbs up department.

 

Wow some great responses so far, I appreciate all the feedback! There are certainly lovers of both vehicle styles.

Pkoko, though I had mentioned both the x300 and xj40, I had more or less steered the comparison towards the Series 3, as I felt the 1990’s Jaguars were too “modern” to really feel like a classic, and could be a compromise. I’m sure they are great cars in their own right.

Doug, I agree not all life’s decisions need to make complete sense. As my wife would tell you, when I’m faced with a choice of something that should be a no brainer, and one with a seemingly questionable outcome, I will usually choose the latter. But, that is how I ended up with our first “unreliable” Jaguar after wanting a more reliable, luxury type vehicle several years ago. The people I talked to previous to buying it all said the same things about how they weren’t any good, and my (at the time) coworkers’ surprised looks at what we bought was priceless. I don’t think it was a bad choice as it landed me here.

Phil, that is the only reason I would even consider a calssic Jaguar...that is, if I had a reliable back up. The pics are great, BTW.

It is true, x350 prices even in the states are excellent, and you get a lot of bang for your buck in owning one. That’s exactly why it’s hard to say ‘no’ to another one...except for that little nagging feeling of wanting something different than what is currently in the drive.

There is some definite food for thought in this thread in comparing the two. While I don’t expect to make a solid decision as to which one would work for us best just yet, I do love reading the comparisons between the two, having never owned the Series 3.

Thanks again!

 

Oh that red one Phil! Gosh she's a beauty.

 

Respectively agree to disagree on ride quality Phil. They're not even close IMNSHO, but that's not an issue, it's perspective. One of the first things I did was put 18" wheels on my SV8 and even my wife got jealous. Her Mercedes S430 didn't ride as smooth.

Ultimately having an series III for a toy is fun if you love to tinker with tanks. If I had the space, I'd do something different like chase down a premium XJR but those days are over for the most part. My thought is if you decide to pull the trigger on one, I presume most of the issues are covered in the SIII forum, but all of us can chime in.