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In the market for an XJ6/VDP... 160k kilometre mark? (and pre-buying list)
I'd like to start this off by saying I've been lurking these forums for a while now in anticipation of buying a Jag! (why else?) I'm excited to be a part of the culture here, as I've been a long time fan of these beautiful cars.
Now...
I have my eyes on a couple beauties. Two 1996 XJ6s, both with ~160,000 kilometres on them, and a beautiful nearly MINT condition VDP with just under 156,000. I know these cars can go for a while, but isn't this the standard odometer rollover that most people trade their cars in due to several parts needing replacement? Correct me if I'm wrong; I hope I am, and that Jaguars of this mileage will either have most of the troubles replaced or I am at least a year/10,000k+ away from having to do so. Any say is greatly appreciated and welcomed.
Also, I want to go back and scour for any problems. A pre-buy checklist of sorts would be useful. Not to use for haggling leverage, as I think $4,500 is a pittance for a car of this condition and legend. I've looked through the buyers guide and found it rather useful but also rather specific, and I'm wondering if anyone has thrown together a rough list of things I can actually check then and there besides the obvious, i.e. leaking oil/diff/tranny/coolant fluids, suspension damage, rust, warning lights.
Welcome to the forum, Malihide. Since you confess to lurking for some time...it should be no surprise to you that you need to pop over to the new members section and introduce yourself so you can get a proper welcome aboard and start boosting your post count beyond 10 so a mod can grant you full access.
160K km = 100k miles, near as makes no difference. The "gouge" is that is about the point you can expect the crank position sensor and the fuel pump to fail. FWIW, my daily driver is a 95 VDP obtained in 2010 with 63K miles on it, now sporting 172k miles and it is running on the same crank sensor and fuel pump as the day I bought it (though I do have a new fuel pump a file cabinet somewhere out in the shop...just in case!)
Neither part will break the bank at roughly $100 odd for the sensor and anywhere from $14 - $240 for the pump. Pump R&R is several orders of magnitude more difficult than sensor R&R but still well within the realm of the average DIY'er.
That is the one caveat I would mention, "If you don't fancy working on them, it probably won't be all that enjoyable of an ownership experience."
Not that they need that much, they are very reliable and durable cars. But many mechanics are afraid of them, and dealerships no longer have much expertise with them, owing to their age and personnel turnover....although they are quite happy to sell you a 4-figure ABS module to repair a problem you could handle with $30 worth of soldering tools, for instance. For me, at least, a significant part of the joy derived from owning and operating such a smooth and beautiful motor car is knowing it inside-out from having maintained it.
Now get over there and introduce yourself, and happy wrenching!
Welcome to the forum, Malihide. Since you confess to lurking for some time...it should be no surprise to you that you need to pop over to the new members section and introduce yourself so you can get a proper welcome aboard and start boosting your post count beyond 10 so a mod can grant you full access.
160K km = 100k miles, near as makes no difference. The "gouge" is that is about the point you can expect the crank position sensor and the fuel pump to fail. FWIW, my daily driver is a 95 VDP obtained in 2010 with 63K miles on it, now sporting 172k miles and it is running on the same crank sensor and fuel pump as the day I bought it (though I do have a new fuel pump a file cabinet somewhere out in the shop...just in case!)
Neither part will break the bank at roughly $100 odd for the sensor and anywhere from $14 - $240 for the pump. Pump R&R is several orders of magnitude more difficult than sensor R&R but still well within the realm of the average DIY'er.
That is the one caveat I would mention, "If you don't fancy working on them, it probably won't be all that enjoyable of an ownership experience."
Not that they need that much, they are very reliable and durable cars. But many mechanics are afraid of them, and dealerships no longer have much expertise with them, owing to their age and personnel turnover....although they are quite happy to sell you a 4-figure ABS module to repair a problem you could handle with $30 worth of soldering tools, for instance. For me, at least, a significant part of the joy derived from owning and operating such a smooth and beautiful motor car is knowing it inside-out from having maintained it.
Now get over there and introduce yourself, and happy wrenching!
Hello and nice to meet you, aholbro1! Thanks for your friendly greeting and reminder - I've posted a little intro about myself and my love for Jags.
I agree very much with you; I could not fully appreciate a car like this unless I was intimate with it, and it makes it that much sweeter when you know you have a long love affair with the road ahead of you.
I am thrilled to find out it will only be those two I will -probably- have to replace soon after buying. My dad owns a shop with all the fixings including an air lift so I will be well equipped to say the least. If I might ask, what are other things I should check on site, if possible? I'm aware of possible rust in the wheel well. The tires almost look brand new, so I'm not concerned about that...
Not to be an annoyance and don't feel obligated to answer if it's stickied somewhere. My other concern is that carfax states the VIN has 43 alerts on the car - now, is that high or is it expected? It could be anything from maintenance to inspections, to owner changes but hopefully not accidents or thefts (although its condition REALLY screams a big no to these). I suppose I could pay to run the facts.
Thanks again for all your help, and for making a new member feel at home right off the bat.
I'm not sure about the Carfax question. I've only seen it two ways when shopping around: 1) the dealer/seller provides a link to the actual carfax; on these, the only thing I recall seeing called "Alerts" are collisions, odometer mismatches and such.
Or 2) a link is provided but it just takes you to a page offering to sell you the carfax for this car for the low price of $19.99 or what-not.
Maybe, just maybe in the ensuing years since I've done any real car-shopping....someone has honed this marketing technique and it searches the VIN and reports back that not only can you buy the carfax, but you better! b/c its got 43 Alerts! when in fact, it has 43 entries. 40-60 line items would be expected as it logs every trip to the state inspector to pay the tax, any repairs performed at certain shops, dealers seem to participate, I'm not sure what the mechanism is, but reasonably certain when I perform an oil change out back that CARFAX has no notion of it and pretty sure I can find more than a few shops where that is also the case.
Beware differential noise. They have a history of failure but I don't think quite as early as the 160km mark. And it is this or that bearing and sporadic, as I said...for mine 172k mi on the original and no noise yet. But I drove a howler or two when shopping.
I think everything is probably contained in those links...try to get a hand on the a/c condenser and give it a shake. Lower mounts have a tendency to depart and the condenser won't last long once they do. Kleman raises a good point in rust - mine has always been a Texas car and corrosion just isn't a problem. Other climes can be harsher. It sounds to me like you should be looking mostly at items that succumb to age rather than mileage: soft or plastic parts; bushes, headliner, etc. Paint? some have reported clear-coat failure in spots. 160 km is not going to hurt one of these cars.....19-20 yrs in a salt environment though..maybe so. Look closely for corrosion and materials degradation issues.
I'm not sure about the Carfax question. I've only seen it two ways when shopping around: 1) the dealer/seller provides a link to the actual carfax; on these, the only thing I recall seeing called "Alerts" are collisions, odometer mismatches and such.
Or 2) a link is provided but it just takes you to a page offering to sell you the carfax for this car for the low price of $19.99 or what-not.
Maybe, just maybe in the ensuing years since I've done any real car-shopping....someone has honed this marketing technique and it searches the VIN and reports back that not only can you buy the carfax, but you better! b/c its got 43 Alerts! when in fact, it has 43 entries. 40-60 line items would be expected as it logs every trip to the state inspector to pay the tax, any repairs performed at certain shops, dealers seem to participate, I'm not sure what the mechanism is, but reasonably certain when I perform an oil change out back that CARFAX has no notion of it and pretty sure I can find more than a few shops where that is also the case.
Beware differential noise. They have a history of failure but I don't think quite as early as the 160km mark. And it is this or that bearing and sporadic, as I said...for mine 172k mi on the original and no noise yet. But I drove a howler or two when shopping.
I think everything is probably contained in those links...try to get a hand on the a/c condenser and give it a shake. Lower mounts have a tendency to depart and the condenser won't last long once they do. Kleman raises a good point in rust - mine has always been a Texas car and corrosion just isn't a problem. Other climes can be harsher. It sounds to me like you should be looking mostly at items that succumb to age rather than mileage: soft or plastic parts; bushes, headliner, etc. Paint? some have reported clear-coat failure in spots. 160 km is not going to hurt one of these cars.....19-20 yrs in a salt environment though..maybe so. Look closely for corrosion and materials degradation issues.
Best wishes in your search!
Thanks!
The headliner is in good condition, and I doubt it would be too terribly expensive to retrofit one if need be (at least temporarily). I know to look out for diff noise, I'm sure it will be a distinct howling or whining, so hopefully that won't be the problem or I'll have to decline this beautiful machine.
That's what I thought about Carfax; I did several other VIN checks on some less-than-interesting cars and got similar numbers in the 30-40 range, so I'm guessing it counts all repairs and probably insurance renewals too. The paint on the car is fine, I am going to look for some distinct nylon brushing marks from cheap car washes. What bushes do you mean and how do I check/replace them?
A/C not a huge issue for me unless failure can hurt other aspects of the car, which would be a huge issue. I like to drive with the windows down even if it's not that hot. Speaking of which, does the X300 have the funky rear windows that roll down half way and then fold? Or was that a custom job I had seen on someone's XJ12?
Thanks again for all your help. I'm incredibly excited!
Thanks for the links! I have to say that is a lot of rust... I've never seen that much on a car here, even my non-garage kept 1972 AMC Hornet didn't suffer that much. I actually live on the west coast of Canada so winters are not so bad here, and usually only parking lots are salted (damn salt, ruining our cars AND leather shoes). In fact this year we had one snow day in early December and the rest of the time it stayed above 5C even hitting 20 in February! I have to give you props for the job you did on your jag - seriously, wow. I'll make sure to look out for rust, and hopefully it was garage kept... The interior seriously tells me it was.
04-11-2015, 07:00 PM
In the market for an XJ6/VDP... 160k kilometre mark? (and pre-buying list)
