Hi ,

After having hot weather long crank issue , as engineer , I have a question !

Is that possible to apply new generation engine control unit to our cars ! mine is 1996 Daimler lwb

By changing :

- Engine Control Unit

and all related sensors ( I know that some structural modification will be needed to mount new sensors and even add some sensors ,

Is anybody tried this ?

The aim is : to Have the optimum performance / consumption / problem free driving with old mechanic and new electronics !!! Worth it ?

Your opinion please

 

Nope , You can tweek the data maps and by having a moving but shifted up spark some degrees a better power extracting burn cycle .

I would retain the original ECU and tweek the engine in incremental steps so not to get lost .

Upsize the MAF so it wouldn't be on the saturation curve . Upsize the injectors .

The sensors you replace are going to put out the same sensor values .

Breathing and exhaust gains as from what I heard the head is not optimal .

External VVT ? for better exhaust extraction so you effective engine displacement is not reduced at higher RPMs

The track versions of the AJ16 from what I have read will put out 600 HP at the cost of ( ? )

I have an idea I keep close to my vest and may or may not be practical as the regulation smoothly shifts over from mode A to mode B .

 

Thank you@Lady Penelope , also for your help with my problem ...

My english is poor , I partially understand ,

I don't want to increase horse power , I gently use my car , I rarely have more than 2000 RPM - I probably use not more than 100 bhp , to easy diagnose and more efficient vehicle is it worth to modernize our engine control system ? for exemple , I tried everything including your advise to have a solution for long crank issue hot weather first start but no result .... maybe it will be easier to determine solutions with modern electronics ,


Maybe it is an extreme proposal ? for just a long crank issue .... not worth at all because I drive my car less than 3000 miles / year.

 

If you want to cheaply get into what your sensors are reading in real time as a recorded graph when you drive around ,these ELM327 readers are $ 10 US on Ebay free shipping . There is a learning curve to set it up . It won't show everything like fuel pressure because the AJ16 engine doesn't have a fuel pressure sensor . English is not the best language , someday they will get it straightened out .

 

it is wonderfull information , thank you !!!

 

Hi KeremArsan,

The "simple" reason that modernizing the engine management system would be very difficult or impossible is that the Engine Control Module (ECM) works in partnership with the Transmission Control Module (TCM), Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) and Instrument Cluster (IC) to manage the performance of the vehicle. Since many functions, such as orchestrating smooth gearshifts, depend on multiple control units working together, you cannot simply replace the ECM.

However, the answer to your long cranking when hot may be easier to diagnose and resolve. My first question would be, how long has it been since you gave the car a good tune-up, including new spark plugs, air and fuel filter, cleaned the ground points, and put a bottle of good fuel injector cleaner in the fuel tank?

Common causes of long cranking include:

Tune-up components in poor condition
Low battery voltage while cranking
Failing Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR)
Failed fuel check valve
Failing Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP or CMPS)
Failing Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKPS)
Failing fuel pump or fuel pump relay
Air leaks causing lean running
Failing Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECTS) causing rich running

Lady P's suggestion of getting an ELM327 OBDII adapter and a suitable app for your phone is good advice, but in the meantime if you can have the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) scanned, they may help narrow down the diagnosis. In the U.S., auto parts stores will scan vehicles for free. Do stores in Istanbul offer the same service?

Cheers,

Don

 

Hi Don ,

Thank you very much ! I recently did tune up components :

Air Filter , Fuel Filter , Spark Plugs , Oil Change and Auto Transmission partial flush and new filter.

- New Crank Position Sensor installed ( one week ago )
- New ECT Sensor and new intake air temperature switch.

Today, I remark something : the exterior temperature reading on AC control is false! it is more than 20 degrees celsius outside but the indication is 15 .... when the engine crank longtime, there is a gas odor and smoke coming from exhaust when the engine catches.

There is no problem with cruising , performance , mpg exemple : 80 - 100 km / h , I can have 8 - 9 liter / 100 , city traffic with low average speed , it is up to 13 - 14 liters / 100 ./ if there is any fuel related problem , can I have the car still cruising normally ? and when outside temp is low ( 10 - 15 celsius ) , it catches almost instantly ( just 1 or 2 revolution of the crank ...

I am using my car as hoby car , it is not a big issue for me the long cranking but I am afraid of damaging the starter ....

I will try also fuel cleaning product and check all your indication and suggestion of @LAdy P .

The engine cranks long only if the weather is hot and engine coolant is cold ( first start of th day , ) of course, if weather is hot and car sits enough to cold down , the same situation present . Otherwise , engine hot , weather hot : no problem , engine cold weather cold no problem...

I will check the fuel pressure system and all your list , maybe the higher than normal fuel pressure can cause this RICH condition ...

I have a very old Jaguar garage, they have computer system , there is no code at all on all the systems , one time , OBD detected a misfire on cylinder 4 but it goes away maybe an intermittent problem...

Anyway , appreciate your help ! thank you very much Dan

Cheers

 

Long crank times can be a symptom of an incorrectly timed camshaft position senor. This sensor is actually mounted at the front of the engine , near the AC compressor. It isn't anywhere near the cam shafts. It just rotates at camshaft speed.


I'm sure you can find instructions elsewhere on this forum on how to set the timing of this sensor.

 

Or a failing one. Just replaced one on the lad's 96 VDP last weekend to mend a long-crank issue. It did throw a sporadic code now and then, but never sufficient to light the MIL, only "Pending." (P0340)

I had grabbed one on a recent Pick-n-Pull visit because the sight glass had departed mine, and I'd replaced it with a section of plastic water jug and RTV. Not very clear and no target circle. So I transferred the top cover to my 95.

TO fit it to the 96, I cranked the engine with a ratchet from the crank-damper bolt until the target was centered in the circle. THen removed the fixing bolt and the electrical connection and pulled it out. Since I had to swap top-covers, I installed the PnP unit with cover removed, then placed the cover to make sure I was centered. Yes! I was a tooth off the first try or two. Having the cover removed makes it easy to spin the shaft to get gear engagement.
In this case, I didn't need to bother with the timing, per se, just replicate what was already there.

 

There was something Andy mentioned before about removing the oil cap and seeing the correct sequence of the # 3 valves as the TSB does not reflect the 2 rotations on the crankshaft per 1 rotation of the camshaft and some different markings on the crankshaft to be referenced other then the traditional way of looking at the target being the missing tooth on the crankshaft toothed ring . Makes sense as the Camshaft sensor can be 180 degree out .
The socket size is 34 mm or you can remove the spark plugs and rotate by hand being careful to not get your hand pinched as the engine spins through rotation . The starter can be bumped through to aid the rotation up to the critical point .

 

Thank you very much ! yesterday I removed the connection of cam shaft position sensor and see that the engine doesn't start at all in this case and connected again , and with some delay engine started ,

I will try to replace the camshaft position sensor and measure the fuel pressure on the fuel rail to see what cause rich mixture on starting at hot weather days , ,,

Cheers ,

kerem

 

The P0340 code was present as I purchased my car and went away with cleaning the connector . The camshaft sensor is a hall effect sensor different then the inductive crankshaft sensor so it as a component and a meter test differently .

The removing of the camshaft connector and seeing if it would start is a invalid test for the camshaft position sensor as the engine will start anyway with the crankshaft sensor and the delay in starting can be caused by another issue like for example fuel pump check valve leaking open requiring a longer fuel pump run to the correct fuel pressure to not be underfueling in the required total fuel cylinder charge at that point in the starting sequence .

To test for this check valve would to be looking at the fuel pressure at the rail after an hour after engine shutdown and seeing that your 43 PSI did not bleed off . Al Roethlisberger has the correct fuel line fittings setup for the fittings are odd if you were to go down that path in troubleshooting . I used a different approach to testing the fuel pressure as I couldn't find the fittings .


Someone pinched off the soft fuel return line after the regulator to see if the regulator line back to the fuel tank was regulating at a lower pressure different then a check valve bleed off of the after shutdown trapped pressure .