Hello Jaguar Enthusiasts,

Advice needed. I'm lost.

Background: I installed a new / used transmission and torque conv. and a cooling line. I removed the fill plug, car was level, and fluid gushed out. I started the engine (runs great) put it and drive, it kicked down a little and would not move. I tried reverse, nothing. I removed the filler plug, engine off, to put more fluid in to fill the system and fluid still came out. I restarted the engine, let it run for 10 minutes and put it in drive and reverse with the brakes applied for about five minutes thinking that would circulate fluid, fill the converter and lines and allow me to put more fluid in. The pan did not heat up much. With the engine running I removed the fill plug and fluid still gushed out and the vehicle would not move at all. I'm pretty sure I connected everything right. Note: The previous, original transmission would only move the car a very little. I opened that previous transmission and one of the drum gears was broken up.

My Thoughts: I believe that the car will not move because there is no fluid in the converter. I suspect that the pump (I don't know where the pump is) is full of air instead of fluid.?

Any help would be appreciated, THX

jeff xj8, Maryland, USA

 

The level is check/topped-up with the engine running and the gearbox temp between 30 and 50 degrees Centigrade.

Removing the level pug with the engine OFF will result in loss of fluid if the level is anywhere near correct.

 

+1 on the above. Your fluid will be way low now.

 

THX Jacra and motor car man for the quick reply.

I did try to run the motor, go through the gears, warm it up, and add more fluid but the pan did not heat up and when I removed the fill plug, fluid continued to gush out.

Since I just changed the trans and torque converter, I wouldn't think the system was low, and the fluid gushes out running or not.

The guy I got the trans from assures me that the trans is good.

Is it possible that the pump is not engaged or need to be primed in some way? Would it even be possible to mount the transmission if the converter was not completely seated on the input shaft?

I'm going to disconnect one of the lines and see if fluid is even circulating. I don't know what else I can do.

Thx, jeff xj8

 

correction: After changing the trans and converter I wouldn't think the system was full, much less, over full.

 

It is possible to mount the transmission without the torque converter being completely "snugged" in place. Its a 3 stage process with 3 distinct "clunks" as it seats in the correct position.

IF this did happen you may well damage the pump.

In any case something is not right.

 

I was just thinking about the driving-dogs in the pump not seated and now the gearbox is damaged?

I remember a young guy at the Jaguar dealer I worked with did not get the studs on a Ford 5R55N aligned with the holes in the torque converter drive plate.(2000 S-Type)
The car was in for a P0741 service action torque converter fault.

He snugged up the bell housing bolts and bent the living $H!T out of the drive plate. We came over to help and I told him to replace the drive plate and hope the pump was not broken. He just loosened the bell housing bolts and lined up the studs. Bolted everything up and when the engine started it was the most horrible sound I ever heard!

He bought another drive plate from parts and installed it. The engine started and the noise was gone but the car would NOT MOVE. (the pump was broken)

Replacement gearbox (worked out a deal with the payroll dept and the dealership for partial responsibility) and the car finally got back to the customer.

A few months later he quit to pour concrete with his brother-in-law.(nice guy but not a mechanic)

 

jeff
i just installed a factory rebuilt transmission last week.
But i have done servicing on the prior tranny myself a few times..
It takes about 30 minutes for the operating temperature to run between 40-50 deg C, at which point you cycle through the gears etc.

To measure the temp, use a laser heat gun on the pan, OR preferrabbly use an OBD2 scanner which will read the transmission temp.... even a generic one will be able to.
Infact if you have a laser heat gun ($25), you can see the heta flow through the tranny cooling lines to confirm it all for yourself.

Also you need to clean the transmission cooling lines/cooler , flush them out with solvent. To confirm the PUMP and cooling lines are flowing correclty, disconnect the return one and you must receive 2 to 2.5 liters in 15 seconds. Thats what was required for my factory rebuilt transmission.

Sadly the ZF5HP24, being GERMAN, has problems imcluding "A" Drum failiure producing no forward, Sun Shaft wear producing no reverse when hot, and a heap of other
gremlins.
They should have put a Borg Warner in there, like in my 1980 Daimler Double Six, brilliant, i have only serviced it once in 20 years. Now that Borg Warner tranny is sealed for life tranny, not this ZF.
Peter

 

A double six should have a GM 3L80 (not a BW 65 or 66)

 

A few years ago I had the transmission out of my 97 to replace the rear main seal. When replacing it there was a problem getting it to mate the last couple of mm. One of the guys helping me used the fasteners to bring it together and there was a slight snap sound. That was the dogs breaking and of course the pump didn't work, so it wouldn't go into gear. If nothing happens when you shift into gear you will probably find the same condition.

 

When putting in the torque converter of my ZF6hp26 it took me quite a while to get it in past the "last "clunk" to mate properly. As you turn the converter to mate the dogs the damned pump turns so easily without the dogs in place. I had to jiggle it a lot and then it finally goes in. Several U tube videos on this.

I actually had to walk away from the job a few times out of frustration. I was doing it under the car with the transmission horizontal. Long story.

Since I have two transmissions I could see where the torque converter was supposed to sit relative the bell housing face on the one I have as a spare.

 

Thanks for the information, lots to think about. I really don't want to drop the transmission again it would be the third time.

When I mounted the transmission there was a very little bit of pressure between the flywheel and torque converter so I had to loosen the trans to engine to trans bolts just a little to allow independent movement to align the bolts.

Do you guys thing the following is a good approach?

Disconnect return cooling line, start engine check flow, if none disconnect output line check flow, if none, ( which means pump is not functioning and the cooling system is not obstructed) lower transmission check torque conv engagement.? Is there a way to confirm its engaged while dismounted?

I will examine the old trans / converter to practice listening for the "chunk" sounds of engagement. The old trans had a torn up gear, A drive maybe.? BTW

Thankyou so much for the advice, I hope I didn't damage the fly wheel.

jeff xj8 , Maryland, USA

 

My (ex) 1986 Double Six had GM THM-400, indestructible.

 

After checking for flow the way you suggest and if there is no flow :

A suggestion.

With Trans out and Torque converter out measure distance into the pump and the bottom of the slots in the pump that take the engaging dogs of the converter shaft to the face of the bell housing.

Then figure out how much the converter should "protrude" from the bell housing face.

OR> With the transmission in park the torque converter should not spin if engaged properly I believe.

Just checked my spare and that does not work. The torque converter still spins even when the trans is in park. The drive shaft is locked but not the torque converter.

 

You should always have fore/aft play in the torque converter when the bell housing bolts are tight.
I usually push the TC into the gearbox and have to draw it forward slightly to fit the bolts to the drive plate.

 

+1 on the above.

 

 

you guys were right on. I broke off oil pump dogs. I'm going to take o pump off the old transmission and install it on this one.

 

Lesson learned problem solved.

You will have it running soon.

 

hello jag guys,

im installing new oil pump to my gearbox because I destroyed it as described in previous.

I cant find a torque spec, even in my manual, for the bell housing to gearbox and the housing to pump through bolts. Anyone have that info?

THX, jeffxj8

P.S Anyone in Spain?