Hi y'all

I am Arthur from Portugal and I love great cars.

I was offerered a Jaguar XJ XJ8 (v8 engine) in my quest for more v8 engines (I've got some Maseratis and such).

This is the car:




I want to buy the car to enjoy it on weekends but it has to be an investment (i.e. it must go up in value in the next years).

As it turns out, the sound of the car is not that unusual, I was looking for something more agressive.

So, I've got 3 questions:

1) Is this car expected to go up in value? I am it is a v8, but still looks pretty common!

2) What can we do to potentiate the sound of the engine? I've seen people who do straight pipes, like this:


But is this the only way?

3) What are the common problems with this car? Anything? How reliable are they?

Thanks a lot!

 

Hello and welcome to the forum Arthur

I'll try and answer your questions, there should be more members posting to assist...

1. It looks like an end of production roll out, Privilege edition looks like it's a fully optioned normally aspirated 4.0. It has things like headlight wash and XJR Asteroid wheels, along with all the chrome options including rear lights, telephone, probably Alpine stereo auto lights and wipers too. It will be a rare car compared to anything from 97-02. It should be 2002 production.

2. Various ways of letting the sound out, my personal favourite is to remove the back boxes and straight pipe it, leaving the big centre box in place. Full 'cat back' stainless systems are available from various vendors, an Italian manufacturer posted on here recently, Super Sprint?

3. Super reliable if no service intervals are missed. Crucial. The only thing that let these cars down early on was Nikasil, then plastic timing chain tensioners - both early series that this car hasn't got. No problem, that leaves the ZF transmission and it's faulty A drum circlip and valve block, these transmissions have a problem that can be addressed by changing the valve block housing and fitting a TransGo kit along with regular oil changes. Once they start to hard shift, that's the time to do it.

The losses have been and gone, regarded as 'Neo classic' in the UK, good ones fetch good money, like any other collectable the price always goes up, not down. Personally think it's a worthy investment, if cheap enough.

 

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder - and I'd disagree to your statement, that this car looks common: It is a real beauty!
It's a Jaguar, It's a 21 year old Jaguar - hence, some kind of work/repairs/service is expected now.

I'd start with changing all fluids:

ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) - and this is important: The correct ATF!
This car probably have the ZF 5hp24 transmission, 5 gears. Well, that's what it is - the ZF 6hp26 would be better, 6 gears.
Do your research before buying the correct ATF. Definitely don't buy any multi-vehicle-ATF.

And the other fluids: Brake, Engine oil, coolant, rear axle oil, power steering fluid (where you can probably use Dexron III AFT).

I would add the leaper on the hood - if that is allowed in your country - it is in Australia.

 

I'm not familiar with that "Privilege" edition badging. Perhaps it was specific trim level package for your market. But as an investment, there are very few classic cars that could qualify as an investment and if its an investment, then you can't really drive it. Maybe a car can go up in value if you buy at the right time and use it very sparingly, but people always forget about the cost of ownership. The biggest cost is storage. I constructed a metal building to house my cars and I get big utility bills every month, huge insurance and property tax bills every year and the building itself requires maintenance. Even if you just have one classic car in your garage at home, that means your daily driver is kept outside in the weather and depreciating that much faster. Storage alone eats any value appreciation of the cars inside and then there's classic car insurance plus the cars themselves are still far more old parts than they are new/restored parts and seem to always need some repair. That said, you could spend the same on traveling the world, a golf country club membership or a fishing boat and by comparison, the value appreciation of a well-bought classic car would likely make it the cheaper hobby.

But I'm afraid that an X308, as cheap as they are, are probably one of the more expensive hobby cars that you could buy because the cost of ownership can be quite high. At this age, they tend to require a lot of what I call "deferred maintenance". Most people that buy a luxury car that is out of warranty do the absolute least amount of maintenance possible and take their chances. And with these X308s, I thought it was prophetic that the official Jaguar maintenance schedule had very little other than oil and brake fluid changes and didn't go past 100K miles which means that XJ8 will need a LOT of work if you want to really enjoy the full luxury Jaguar experience. The REAL maintenance schedule is written in the posts on this very forum. You can read on this forum about all the stuff this car is absolutely going to need eventually if it hasn't already been done. And its a LOT. It was probably ten years ago and I wish I could remember who posted it to give credit but somebody said "These are really $10,000 used luxury cars, just you pay $5,000 to the seller and $5,000 to your mechanic." Its probably more like $15,000 to your mechanic by now. They are really only practical if you are a DIY'er.

Now is there some future upside potential that we haven't seen before in the classic car market? Maybe. At least here in the US, there's not much you can buy with a v8 anymore and even most so-called luxury cars now have screaming little 4-cylinder turbos (that's not very luxurious). I'm kind of wondering if v8 cars might hold their value a little better going forward but I wouldn't place big bets on it. I expect what's going to happen is modern v8 sedans will be pressed into a longer service life than normally in the past. Instead of being recycled or retired into a car collection at 15-20 years old as in the past, people are going to keep driving them to 20-30 years old or until basic stop/go parts are just no longer available at all. I think this may happen simply because there is nothing on the new car market that provides the driving experience that enthusiasts have come to enjoy. However, value-wise, that means at the point we could finally put antique license plates on them, they are going to be that much more worn out and parts supplies will have been completely exhausted. If you've kept a museum piece, then it may be worth a fortune in another 20 years, but the average v8 sedan may eventually be even worth less than we've come to expect as it just won't be practical to try to restore it.

Enjoy now while you can, but don't count on it for your retirement.

 

This basically sums it up... Unless it's an XJR100 or Super V8 it probably won't be worth any more in the future... But even those in pristine condition may only go for 30k-40k nowadays (off the hip guess, could be wrong) but they probably won't be wortth *that* much more in a couple decades... Basically there's better things to invest in, cars almost never provide meaningful returns unless you're very smart and lucky.

Also that paint color (forget the code, dark blue with the pearl green highlights) is an absolute stunner, beats out every other x308 color option by miles IMO. I was blown away the first time I saw it in person, would have loved that color on my XJR.

Point is, treat it as a hobby/passion project (better hope you can turn wrenches and troubleshoot well), take care of all the deferred maintenance (full suspension refresh, transmission preventative maintenance, anything else that may come up) and enjoy it for what it is: a special experience that doesn't really exist anymore in modern cars.

 

Sean, you're the man!!!

Thanks for the reply.

1. The car is from 1998 and was bought in Switzerland. Brought to Portugal in 2006. One owner to this day (a portuguese emigrant who returned back home in 06).

It is the 3.2 v8 for sure. Not the 4.0 supercharged.

This is the ad, please check it and translate to English with your browser. Many pictures, you should be able to see a lot. Ad:

I will see the car tomorrow. If i like it, i will buy it. It will come out at 10k.

I am buying because it is a v8, and i hope it goes up in value (or, even by using it, i don't lose money if i sell in say 5 to 10 years).

I own Maseratis and I already have v6 and v8. I already know this car doesn't sound anything like my Maseratis, but i know straight pipes and other alternatives will give it the sound it deserves.

 

Sorry Sean I messed up the message.

Ad: https://www.standvirtual.com/anuncio...-ID8PrGpL.html

Keep in mind it is a 98 car.

At 10k euros, would you say it is a good deal?

Btw, the dealer told me it has been 5 years oils are not changed, but the car is "almost never driven". Sounds crooky as heel, but he will do service for the 10k.

2. In Portugal we cannot change cars without going through hell. People usually remove the INSIDE of a box, so that they remain there but let the sound go through. Does it look like an option?

Do you know if we could add a turbo (this is probably insane, especially for a guy who is asking about the car preserving its value lol). Just out of curiosity really.

3. Gotcha. I will not know if gear shifting is harder than normal because i never drove one. But i will guesa from experience.

At 10k euros, solid investment?

Thanks again!

 

Thanks a lot for the answer man.

My rationale was: v8s will have to go up in value. They are not making more of those for sure, but I don't know.

I am building a warehouse soon, to host 12 cars. I already own 5.

I am not a DIYer for sure. I don't know anything about mechanics, only engines. However mechanics tend to be cheap in Portugal (only real crooks though).

I dont expect to make a fortune. Just to have another v8 to drive around and not lose money, make some if possible.

On those lines, would this be a pick?

Next option is Lancia Thema 8.32, also a v8.

I was NOT impressed by the engine sound on Youtube of the XJ8 I must say, but i hold Jaguar as a good brand and never had british cars (only Italians and Germans).

Again, I want to drive it (say 2k kms a year, as I've got many cars anyways), take care of it, and hold it for at least 5 to 10 years. Then sell for a profit or break even inflation and costs-adjusted.

Bad call buying this one?

4.0 supercharged in my country come out at 25k euros...

 

Looks like an ordinary used car dealer. Can he show any maintenance history? Since you aren't so mechanically inclined, I'd recommend you arrange for them to allow you to take it to your favorite mechanic to inspect it first and tell you what all it needs. At this age and mileage, it probably leaks from nearly every seal and gasket and squeaks from nearly every bushing. Mine is not much more miles than that but two years younger. It was rock solid up until about 2015 and by 2017, it was pretty much falling apart at the seams. I've had the engine and transmission out to go through everything and done all of the suspension. Everything made of plastic, rubber or vinyl had become suspect. I've replaced lots of organic stuff you don't even think about till it breaks, like the foam rubber surrounding the stereo speaker cones and the gaskets around all of the door handles. It all adds up fast if you try to keep it in top condition and these cars are just right at the age that they start to unravel. Someone else on here posted the very wise advice: "The best money I ever spent on a car was for the pre-purchase inspection on the one I did not buy."

On the plus side, appears it has been there on the dealer lot since at least April so he ought to be willing to negotiate a deep discount by now to move it.

 

Just a few thoughts: If 10k Euro if a good deals entirely depends on the condition of the car, i.e. if there are any hidden faults and it will be pretty hard to establish that before purchase with absolute certainty. Buying car used car always incorporated a bit of a risk. Also, I am not sure, if buying a Jag is a good idea, if you can't do everything yourself.

A warehouse/shed for 12 cars is exactly what I would need here....

If you plan to resell the Jag, I would refrain from "damaging" it by replacing any part of the exhaust system with a pipe or by damaging a muffler inside. Also: Jags tend to react to such nonsense by totally playing up and throwing all kinds of failure codes at you, if you mess with the system. The whole system is designed to have a certain kind of backpressure, and if it does not have that anymore, something like the O2 sensors might deliver data to the system, which could e.g. throw it into restricted mode (= no more then 3000 rpm).

About adding a turbo: That is probably a non-starter idea:
This has been discussed on the S-Type forum, if a V8 4.2L can be transformed into a STR, that is a S-Type, turbocharged. STRs were made by Jaguar (4.2L V8 R - turbocharged), but transforming one non STR into a STR (if possible at all), would probably turn out to be more expensive than buying a STR.

 

Were backup sensors available in 1998?

I'm not sure about the market in Portugal, but to me this looks on the expensive side and its just about as base model as the XJ8 came. If I were looking, I would personally pass this one by, especially being a non-DIYer. I think there's likely too much work here or too much risk if said work goes undone. This is not at all what I would look at as an investment car.

Just my personal opinion.

 

This car is not an investment. Its a 20+ year old british car, which means you will have plenty of work to do to keep it operating as it did from new, much less adding things like turbos. Even with reasonable mechanic rates, this will get expensive fast. For instance, has pretty much the entire cooling system been replaced? If not, there will be much work to do. Furthermore, this is the lowest spec x308 you can find, so it will not be desirable for enthusiasts. The fact that its a V8 is cool, but it makes less power than modern v6s while using more fuel, so its not exactly going to thrill anyone. Its a cool, stylish, and old school comfy used sedan...nothing more. If you are looking for value retention or appreciation, look elsewhere.

 

@ mayham: To answer your off-topic question above:
> Were backup sensors available in 1998?

Yes. My 1998 XJ8 sovereign has them as well. Also, at that same time my job was to assess the quality of aftermarket-reverse-sensor-kits. I came to the conclusion that they are pretty much crap, as they also beep when they should not and as there can the obstacles - like poles - which the system does not "see".
I still think that those reverse-sensor-systems (parking aids) are pretty annoying and useless, and I do not shed a tear, when the system is one of my Jags does not work anymore (one was constantly beeping a.s.a. the reverse gear was in (obstacle or not)). I simply removed the annoying bugger. If you need something additional to mirrors, a reverse camera is the go.

 

Knowing it's 3.2 and a 98' I wouldn't think 10K is fair, more likely a 3rd of that....

 

Thanks Peter. Wasn't so much an OT question as the way the car is shown I was wondering if it was possibly pieced together. Like if this was a rear bumper cover off an 02 for example. Agreed the rear sensors are basically worthless...mine go off with any dirt or especailly water on them. Very annoying.