1999 XJ8 4.0 Sov 105,000mls

I have found some pretty bad corrsion on the chassis box section in the front wheel arch. i.e. behind the front shock and immediately above where the front suspension / body mounts. I would post a picture but it seems I am to much of newbie to have the privalages yet.



Having air chiseld away all the corroded rubbish I have an area approx 8"x3" with quite thin metal and holes I can get fingers inside the box section through.

My question is how best to patch this up ? Can I just attempt to MiG weld a patch over it all ? The orignal metal work was in couple of layers. If so how thick should the metal be in this area ? Is 2mm enough ? I have Oxy and a TiG welder but MiG is easier.

Any helpful suggestions short of sending the car to the crusher ?

Regards
Neil

 

Neil,

If your XJ8 is in otherwise sound condition, that's a bit extreme.

It's going to need pics to get the best advice. I've sent you a forum PM with my eMail address. If you want to send pics to me, I'll add them to your post.

Of course, one way of working towards full forum rights is to post in New Member Section - Intro a MUST section with some information about yourself and your car.

Graham

 

Exactly the same corrosion damage was found in my 1999 XJR when the car was in anti-rust protection. I heard that it's very typ place for our cars. There were several damaged metal plates, which were replaced and now it's fine. I may ask from them how thick plates were used ( I remember that it was 2mm - but not sure... )

 

Neil,

Your pic added - sounds like XJR-99 has had very similar issues from post #3?

Graham

 

Yes. I will post the pictures if they still have them.

 

I've had my '99 about a month and every day I find out something new that scares the #$&#@!!! out of me.

I just checked my car and I see only the beginnings of the corrosion you posted nurquhar. Do they salt the roads where you are? The type of rust I get is Hawaiian and costs a bit more (but it's worth it).

On my 1999 XJ8 there were two holes hidden under the long plastic cover in front of the windshield (see pics).

pic 1: the hole on the left side

pic 2: the hole on the right side

pic 3: the holes in the first two pics were filled with a foam probably put there for sound deadening. In this pic you can see the foam I removed from the right side hole (red arrow). It was quite a chunk and it was sopping wet. The left side hole was the same. Getting the foam out took some effort as it has adhesive qualities and was really glued in there. I ended up using a bread and butter knife that I sharpened and bent as needed to cut out the foam. Inside was a puddle and a rubber plug (green arrow). I took out the plug and it's all epoxy now. The yellow arrow points to a factory paint drip (see it ain't just me).

pic 4: I used to weld in patches but they always rusted out because the zinc galvanization was destroyed when grinding to bare metal. For the last about 10 years I've been cutting patches out of aluminum gutter which cuts easily and is very nice to work with. I make lots of holes in the area where the patch will overlap the good metal, and glue it in with a two part epoxy called PC-7. The epoxy comes up through the holes I drilled and locks it in. In a visible area I would glue it in from the inside. These repairs have stood up drastically better than welded repairs although of course I would not use this for anything that was structural!

pic 5: the right side patch is glued in with PC-7 and clamps hold the edge nicely. If you have to add some more PC-7 you can do it anytime but it works best to add coats while the earlier coats aren't cured so they bond better. I've done repairs around windshields with this method and it works well. I trust PC-7 more than paint on bare metal to prevent rust.

pic 6: here's the left side after painting. I used some POR-15 rust paint on places I couldn't remove all the rust from.

To cut the holes and for rust removal I use my Dremmel with fiberglass reinforced cut off discs. You can cut holes in a car and grind rust with those and they work great. I buy the discs from eBay, something like $15 for 100.

POR-15 is a unique product, a paint made especially to paint over rust (P-O-R, get it?) and dries best when it's humid which is odd. It's the only paint I know of that will not clean up with acetone.

If you get POR-15 on you it will clean up with Brake Clean. It's nice my car is silver as I've only seen it in silver, white and black. You need to topcoat POR-15 as it will get an odd dusty color. I bought several colors of Dupli-Color brand silver spray paint and the one for VW cars was the closest to my car which is paint code MDX.

When you put the lid back on the POR-15 can, it's best to put a piece of mylar (like a zip-lock baggie) over the can and then put the lid on. If not you'll likely never get the lid off. Then I masking tape around the lid, put the whole thing in a zip-lock baggie and store it in my freezer, more because it's dry than the temperature. POR-15 is a very unique product and the only thing I'd use on areas where there's rust I can't remove. It does work.

The holes I repaired are hidden by a plastic cover so they didn't need to look perfect.

I'm thinking that the reason the rust occurred there was because of the high humidity here possibly storing moisture in the sponges that were in there.

I'm interested in finding out the common rust places in these cars.

I have another area I need to tend to in the left rear door.

 

I thought the UK was hard on Jaguars but that's serious rusting!

Is this general with Hawaii or just particular to the climate in Hauula area?

Graham

 

Thanks IanT, great post.
Would like to concur with the plug for POR-15. Outstanding product! once it is on there - rust is arrested. An old Studebaker man turned me on to it about 12 years ago. I have used it to completely cover the undercarriage and interior decking of car during restoration. It produces a result like powder coating. Good luck with your rust NURGUHAR.

 

thanks mdtopless67 - POR-15 is good stuff!

Graham - Hawaii varies a lot and I'd give my place a 9 out of 10 (10 being the worst) as far as rust goes. It's wet, near the ocean and the winds are especially strong. There's places here that have very dry climates where the cars hardly rust. My place is way worse than most here.

Check out the attached pic of me pulling back the door rubber on my '92 Caprice. It was brought here rust free from California about 6 years ago (what do you expect for $2000?). That's an eye opener pic, not? The car still rides beautifully at 215K mi, engine never been opened.

 

My chassis rust is on just one side. It looks like during manufacture they left a bit of gap where the wheel arch panal comes up and overlaps the chassis box section. The two parts were spot welded together. However without sealant sealing the seem water has got in between the plates and rotted from within. Thus you realy notice the problem when its worked its way from the inside to the outside.

I have a local welder coming to see it today as it needs to be a proper job being structural. I don't want to risk not getting a decent weld down first time onto solid metal. I am quite happy welding new metal on the bench but dangeling under a car at funny angles with hot underseal dripping on you is a lot more challangening. (been there and got the T shirt).

Is this POR-15 available in the UK ?

 

nurquhar I found this: POR 15 RUST PREVENTION PAINT SILVER US PINT (473ml) NEW | eBay

That's the same as what I used. It might seem expensive but it covers well so I'm always surprised at how little I use.

Make sure you get some spray brake cleaner for cleanup.

And if you put the lid on without cleaning everything spotless you'll never get it off... that's why it's better to put plastic over the can and then put the lid on.

I was surprised how many colors and different POR-15 products they had on eBay.

The underside of another Caprice I had was so rusted you'd have mistaken it for a part of the Titanic. I scraped it down with a wire brush (POR-15 likes to go over rust more than bare metal) and applied POR-15. It came out very nice but after 2 years in my harsh environment it did start to rust in a bunch of places. Overall though I'd say it worked extremely well, nothing else I've seen is anywhere near it. Dries faster when it's humid - go figure.

 

The UK has something to suit, it's called Kurust, and can be bought from Halfords or most motorfactors.

Back to shiny metal, a coat of this stuff and weld through etch primer, along with a dose of waxoil or similar inside the box section. Then autoshutz the whole area once stiffened up.

Have a look at other area's that need attention...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...onsider-59153/

 

That looks like a battery acid attack!

Hope the scenery makes up for the rain and the wind.

Graham

 

Holden Vintage and Classic do a POR-15 Starter Kit for the three stage process which may be sufficient materials for the area you need to treat:

Steps 1-3 - POR-15 Super Starter Kit - Grey - Paint & Anti-Rust from Holden Vintage & Classic

There's also some useful videos about it on their site.

Graham

 

Yes, it does (look like battery acid and the scenery does make up for it).

Living here has affected me a lot. It's a very spiritual place. I've been very lucky in that by my early 30's I had every material thing I could possibly want. There's no depth in material things so now I judge wealth by how much you can afford to give away.

 

It does look good stuff....maybe time to give it a try, cheers Graham.

 

POR-15 is great stuff.

That being said, and maybe it's because I live in Rust Central, each time I've used POR-15 the rust did eventually return.

I only use POR-15 as a last resort. It's always better to remove the rust.

The problem I have is that when you grind to bare metal and lose the zinc galvinization, by the time you get primer on it (even if you spray immediately) there's a thin coating of moisture and salt on the surface and the rust comes back.

Painting has not worked well for me in rust prone areas, even when I use the best primer I know of which is Interlux marine paint.

I've taken to using PC-7 epoxy and if you totally encapsulate metal it will not ever, ever even start to rust. It can't because rust needs an oxygen source.

I've attached two pics, the first is the PC-7 epoxy, the second is where I used it around the hole where the wiper blade mount is. Using paint there, where I live, would be a joke. I do paint the epoxy afterwards.

Also, there's a great product called Whink which takes rust stains off of surfaces, and it's a very useful product. A lot of times I'll try that first and I won't need to grind or sand if it's just a very light surface rust. Sometimes it will stain metal black so it's good to test a spot. It will wreck painted surfaces about as well as brake fluid.

I am fanatical about keeping my hands clean so when I work I coat my hands and arms with a moisturizer and wear plastic gloves inside my work gloves. That way nothing will stick and it cleans up easily.

I can't emphasize how important brake cleaner spray is when you use POR-15. I didn't know that the first time I used it and had spots on my arms for about a month 'til it wore off. Nice.

 

Got the welding done yesterday. Had a great bloke round to do it who was an ex Rover panel worker/welder. It took him 2 hours to clean up the site and put in a double skin patch over the area. The work cost £70 which I thought was pretty reasonable. The job was nice and neat, I would recommend Ernie.

For those in the Birmingham, UK area you can contact Ernie at How to get Birmingham (UK) car and auto welding 30-50% less than...

I just need to get some POR-15 and finish the job.

 

I have the same issue on a ex-Manchester area XJ8. Is it possible a picture of after the welding? I am curious how the double skin patch looks.

 

Ian,

A couple of good recommendations - tried and tested in the rust capital! Despite this disadvantage, it looks idyllic from the pic in your earlier post.

I was able to find both PC-7 and Whink from local suppliers so they are clearly widely available.

Graham