Jaguar XJR 4.0 v8 5 months a non starter
#1
11-05-2015, 11:56 AM
Jaguar XJR 4.0 v8 5 months a non starter
Dear Jaguar members,
I have been having trouble with my car for the last 5 months.
The last time it ran under its own power:
Back in March 2015 my monthly journey in the car I got about 1/2 mile from the drive when the wiper turned itself on, hazards started flashing and the dashboard message centre said restricted performance warning.
I drove the car immediately back to my drive and put it into park with the engine running so I could empty a plastic drain cover of leaves that sits unaccessible under the car most of the time.
When I entered the car again and tried to move it forward to where it is parked normally the Car would not allow me to move the Gear shift lever away from Park.
I Pressed the brake pedal repeatedly and the lever would not budge.
I tried a few things before deciding I had better quickly run upstairs, turn my computer on and do a quick search on youtube / google for moving the Jaguar out of park. Found where to unscrew, to put a solid shaft down and disengage the park lock and managed to put the car in the place it is today.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The car does not have the battery connected most of the time as the security system mucks around and does not even sound an alarm most of the time.
So to do my daily check / fixes on the car I unlock the boot using the key and connect the negative terminal of the battery. If the battery gets below 12.4v I bring it into the house and charge it.
I close the boot and try to unlock the car using either of the 2 key fobs.
I will hear the 4 doors control modules relay clicks within them but non of the locks will move up.
The light on the gear lever area will then go RED solid on, after about 5 seconds it will then flash quickly and go randomly it seems back to a solid red.
If I unlock the driver's door with the key I would expect to hear the chiming warning of the alarm about to sound but all I hear is relay clicking from the BPM and a static hissing/clicking from the steering column speaker. If I do nothing for 10 seconds the Red security light on the gear lever area will still be on and more relay clicking will occur from the BPM and hissing/clicking form the steering column speaker.
I place wither master key in the ignition slot I will have about a 1 in 10 chance this will be recognised and the speaker will click in a very definite way, the red light will go out and you would then expect to be able to start the car but no.
You can turn the key to pos 1 and the radio will work windows all can be moved up and down still no error on the red security light it is still off.
But move the key to pos II the dashboard lights up, shows no errors, but then the moment the dashboard shows the hazard flasher green light it will engage the red security light on the gear lever area.
The immobilser will have engaged and stopped the ability for the started motor to crank. The speaker on the column starts hissing / clicking and the relays start clicking in the BPM.
I then have to put the key back to pos 0 and remove it put it back in up to 10 times before it recognises the key again and lets me retry.
I have over the past 5 months taken apart every major b+ connector from the trunk to the engine bay, cleaned ( sanded corrosion of contacts, applied dielectric grease) to all earthing points both inside outside and underside the car. Including the 250 amp major fuses links.
All 5 fuse boxes and been out, apart cleaned checked and if necessary replaced, or dry joints soldered.
The ignition electronic switch has been apart and cleaned of copper oxide and tested on a multi meter for resistance/working now fine.
Removed all control modules from car checked for blown capacitors, water ingress/ damaged boards, tracks.
Including the KTM no visual sign of problems in any of them.
I have reset the security module more times than I care to remember and the main ECU using the battery negative terminal to positive terminal trick. (pos ii for the ecu reset a few times)
Nothing I try seems to make it work.
I have taken up most of the front carpets/ dash board luxury to reveal the wiring looms/connectors/relays in the car and gone through and cleaned these contacts as well. Bought a relay tester and checked every relay in every fuse box, heel board etc.
I even swapped the position of the relays from front to back of car to guarantee the combinations would show a difference in working but no change.
Each time I found a corroded connector I thought this must be it, the one that cause the issue, but once all reconnected and fully charged battery reconnected nothing has changed.
I have taken the boot (trunk) wiring apart and put back together twice at least as I had a minor success once after work done in there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One day I found the security system co-operating and letting me get the point of cranking. I then had no engine start. This was traced to the fuel pump having failed at some point whilst I have been raping the ignition switch on/off due to the security / immobiliser issue.
I took this opportunity to test my electronics in the car and ran a full MOT on all lights indicators/ horns, alarm, hazards Everything WORKED! (Except the Left hand door lock via central locking)
So I had a hell of a job replacing the fuel pumps / fuel filter (all genuine parts from Jaguar dealer) due to the fuel filter (aluminum thermite welding itself onto the rusting fuel line from the tank. New fuel line bought as well as 2 fuel pumps and o-rings and rubbers and tea bag filters.
I cleaned out the contents of the fuel tank using a siphon and eventually a set of tissues/ kitchen paper towels.
Made sure when replacing the tank I did not cut off the wiring looms in the boot which are jammed between the razor sharp tank edge and the wheel arches.
Put 2 gallons of new fuel into tank which I hope is enough to cover the entire base of both fuel pumps in their little circular reservoir.
Had no chance to test the fuel tank / lines/ filter for leaks as in the 6 weeks ago since it was completed the immobiliser has not once decided to co-operate.
--------------------------------------------------------
Spent the last 5 months reading any google searches of similar problems.
No fix from the thousands of similar bpm / sclm problem posts that I have read over the last 5 months have helped me solve the actual problem.
I have finally run out of ideas since the common sense ideas have not worked and every wire I now test on the car has 0 ohm resistance to the earth or the positive.
If I get the car to recognise the key and disable the red security light I can make the security RED light come back on (ie FAIL) by the following means:
1) Pressing the hazard (flasher lights) button inside the car
2) Turning ignition to pos 1 then back to 0 then back to 1
3) Trying the security key fob reprogramming method ignition pos 0 Headlight stalk pull and hold, ign pos 1, headlight stalk let go, pull 4 more times in 3 secs.
4) Engage the alarm via the keyfob as this engages the hazard flasher circuit.(If I am in the car at this time I can ignition pos 0 get it to go from a solid red light to a normal alarm state flashing 1 time a second.)
-------------------------------------------
Keyfobs
I have put brand new batteries in the key fobs back when this issue 1st happened and again in the 2nd fob when I could not get much use out of the car 2 months ago. I also took them aparts and circuit cleaned the muck off the contacts internally and button backs.
The engage alarm button is recognised by the car as the light comes on red security and the door modules all relay click. But none of the locks operate Except the gas filler lock.
The open boot button on the keyfobs will only open the boot if the red security light is either off or flashing 1 time a second.
The headlight button has only ever operated once when the car decided to play ball and disable the security properly.
The disengage alarm button is also recognised by the car and all 4 door control modules relay click when pressed, up to the point when the hazard lights flash circuit is engaged (to show signal received) then RED light from security light and need key in ignition to stop it .
I can then press keyfob disengage (unlock) alarm button up to five times to try and rid it of any sense it should have the immoboliser after 5 clicks and lots of door control module action I believe there is a 10 seconds cool down before it is allowed to respond to the unlock button again.
Unfortunately when you put key in ignition and turn to pos II again the evil red light comes on again and we repeat the cycle again.
Looking at circuit diagram all the faults seem to be due to the BPM, as it controls Every single item that either causes the solid red light status or controls the parts of the starting sequence beyond the point it disengages the security.
However my concern is if the bpm is actually faulty why do I occasionally find I connect the battery and by magic of its own accord the car is fully working I can crank the engine and power is to every circuit without issue and I can engage and disengage the alarm via the fob or via the drivers door lock and it works as it should.
Due to money concerns I am refusing to take it to jaguar who will probably charge for a fortune for replacing a million parts and many thousands of pounds of labour to probably give me back a car with an intermittent fault as they almost certainly will not solve whatever the underlying cause of this problem is.
I feel somewhere there must be an earthing or short circuit fault which I have not found buried deep within some part of the car.
I caught wire or maybe water ingress damp condensation causing a short.
The current state of the car is glove box out, carpets pulled back, left hand passenger door card out, gearbox lever cover out, dashboard luxury wood off, dashboard clocks accessible all wiring looms in all 4 kick plates / heel boards accessible, spare wheel and all boot covers out, steering column covers out. So I can see all internal wires/connectors within the car.
I have been having trouble with my car for the last 5 months.
The last time it ran under its own power:
Back in March 2015 my monthly journey in the car I got about 1/2 mile from the drive when the wiper turned itself on, hazards started flashing and the dashboard message centre said restricted performance warning.
I drove the car immediately back to my drive and put it into park with the engine running so I could empty a plastic drain cover of leaves that sits unaccessible under the car most of the time.
When I entered the car again and tried to move it forward to where it is parked normally the Car would not allow me to move the Gear shift lever away from Park.
I Pressed the brake pedal repeatedly and the lever would not budge.
I tried a few things before deciding I had better quickly run upstairs, turn my computer on and do a quick search on youtube / google for moving the Jaguar out of park. Found where to unscrew, to put a solid shaft down and disengage the park lock and managed to put the car in the place it is today.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The car does not have the battery connected most of the time as the security system mucks around and does not even sound an alarm most of the time.
So to do my daily check / fixes on the car I unlock the boot using the key and connect the negative terminal of the battery. If the battery gets below 12.4v I bring it into the house and charge it.
I close the boot and try to unlock the car using either of the 2 key fobs.
I will hear the 4 doors control modules relay clicks within them but non of the locks will move up.
The light on the gear lever area will then go RED solid on, after about 5 seconds it will then flash quickly and go randomly it seems back to a solid red.
If I unlock the driver's door with the key I would expect to hear the chiming warning of the alarm about to sound but all I hear is relay clicking from the BPM and a static hissing/clicking from the steering column speaker. If I do nothing for 10 seconds the Red security light on the gear lever area will still be on and more relay clicking will occur from the BPM and hissing/clicking form the steering column speaker.
I place wither master key in the ignition slot I will have about a 1 in 10 chance this will be recognised and the speaker will click in a very definite way, the red light will go out and you would then expect to be able to start the car but no.
You can turn the key to pos 1 and the radio will work windows all can be moved up and down still no error on the red security light it is still off.
But move the key to pos II the dashboard lights up, shows no errors, but then the moment the dashboard shows the hazard flasher green light it will engage the red security light on the gear lever area.
The immobilser will have engaged and stopped the ability for the started motor to crank. The speaker on the column starts hissing / clicking and the relays start clicking in the BPM.
I then have to put the key back to pos 0 and remove it put it back in up to 10 times before it recognises the key again and lets me retry.
I have over the past 5 months taken apart every major b+ connector from the trunk to the engine bay, cleaned ( sanded corrosion of contacts, applied dielectric grease) to all earthing points both inside outside and underside the car. Including the 250 amp major fuses links.
All 5 fuse boxes and been out, apart cleaned checked and if necessary replaced, or dry joints soldered.
The ignition electronic switch has been apart and cleaned of copper oxide and tested on a multi meter for resistance/working now fine.
Removed all control modules from car checked for blown capacitors, water ingress/ damaged boards, tracks.
Including the KTM no visual sign of problems in any of them.
I have reset the security module more times than I care to remember and the main ECU using the battery negative terminal to positive terminal trick. (pos ii for the ecu reset a few times)
Nothing I try seems to make it work.
I have taken up most of the front carpets/ dash board luxury to reveal the wiring looms/connectors/relays in the car and gone through and cleaned these contacts as well. Bought a relay tester and checked every relay in every fuse box, heel board etc.
I even swapped the position of the relays from front to back of car to guarantee the combinations would show a difference in working but no change.
Each time I found a corroded connector I thought this must be it, the one that cause the issue, but once all reconnected and fully charged battery reconnected nothing has changed.
I have taken the boot (trunk) wiring apart and put back together twice at least as I had a minor success once after work done in there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One day I found the security system co-operating and letting me get the point of cranking. I then had no engine start. This was traced to the fuel pump having failed at some point whilst I have been raping the ignition switch on/off due to the security / immobiliser issue.
I took this opportunity to test my electronics in the car and ran a full MOT on all lights indicators/ horns, alarm, hazards Everything WORKED! (Except the Left hand door lock via central locking)
So I had a hell of a job replacing the fuel pumps / fuel filter (all genuine parts from Jaguar dealer) due to the fuel filter (aluminum thermite welding itself onto the rusting fuel line from the tank. New fuel line bought as well as 2 fuel pumps and o-rings and rubbers and tea bag filters.
I cleaned out the contents of the fuel tank using a siphon and eventually a set of tissues/ kitchen paper towels.
Made sure when replacing the tank I did not cut off the wiring looms in the boot which are jammed between the razor sharp tank edge and the wheel arches.
Put 2 gallons of new fuel into tank which I hope is enough to cover the entire base of both fuel pumps in their little circular reservoir.
Had no chance to test the fuel tank / lines/ filter for leaks as in the 6 weeks ago since it was completed the immobiliser has not once decided to co-operate.
--------------------------------------------------------
Spent the last 5 months reading any google searches of similar problems.
No fix from the thousands of similar bpm / sclm problem posts that I have read over the last 5 months have helped me solve the actual problem.
I have finally run out of ideas since the common sense ideas have not worked and every wire I now test on the car has 0 ohm resistance to the earth or the positive.
If I get the car to recognise the key and disable the red security light I can make the security RED light come back on (ie FAIL) by the following means:
1) Pressing the hazard (flasher lights) button inside the car
2) Turning ignition to pos 1 then back to 0 then back to 1
3) Trying the security key fob reprogramming method ignition pos 0 Headlight stalk pull and hold, ign pos 1, headlight stalk let go, pull 4 more times in 3 secs.
4) Engage the alarm via the keyfob as this engages the hazard flasher circuit.(If I am in the car at this time I can ignition pos 0 get it to go from a solid red light to a normal alarm state flashing 1 time a second.)
-------------------------------------------
Keyfobs
I have put brand new batteries in the key fobs back when this issue 1st happened and again in the 2nd fob when I could not get much use out of the car 2 months ago. I also took them aparts and circuit cleaned the muck off the contacts internally and button backs.
The engage alarm button is recognised by the car as the light comes on red security and the door modules all relay click. But none of the locks operate Except the gas filler lock.
The open boot button on the keyfobs will only open the boot if the red security light is either off or flashing 1 time a second.
The headlight button has only ever operated once when the car decided to play ball and disable the security properly.
The disengage alarm button is also recognised by the car and all 4 door control modules relay click when pressed, up to the point when the hazard lights flash circuit is engaged (to show signal received) then RED light from security light and need key in ignition to stop it .
I can then press keyfob disengage (unlock) alarm button up to five times to try and rid it of any sense it should have the immoboliser after 5 clicks and lots of door control module action I believe there is a 10 seconds cool down before it is allowed to respond to the unlock button again.
Unfortunately when you put key in ignition and turn to pos II again the evil red light comes on again and we repeat the cycle again.
Looking at circuit diagram all the faults seem to be due to the BPM, as it controls Every single item that either causes the solid red light status or controls the parts of the starting sequence beyond the point it disengages the security.
However my concern is if the bpm is actually faulty why do I occasionally find I connect the battery and by magic of its own accord the car is fully working I can crank the engine and power is to every circuit without issue and I can engage and disengage the alarm via the fob or via the drivers door lock and it works as it should.
Due to money concerns I am refusing to take it to jaguar who will probably charge for a fortune for replacing a million parts and many thousands of pounds of labour to probably give me back a car with an intermittent fault as they almost certainly will not solve whatever the underlying cause of this problem is.
I feel somewhere there must be an earthing or short circuit fault which I have not found buried deep within some part of the car.
I caught wire or maybe water ingress damp condensation causing a short.
The current state of the car is glove box out, carpets pulled back, left hand passenger door card out, gearbox lever cover out, dashboard luxury wood off, dashboard clocks accessible all wiring looms in all 4 kick plates / heel boards accessible, spare wheel and all boot covers out, steering column covers out. So I can see all internal wires/connectors within the car.
#2
11-05-2015, 12:59 PM
When the car is faulty, what is the battery voltage? Measured while the stuff is malfunctioning?
This would not be the first battery that collapsed under load but charged OK and looked OK without load. I had one last week.
Didn't I just see a post by someone who fixed all kinds of problems by running a new ground from the BPM module?
This would not be the first battery that collapsed under load but charged OK and looked OK without load. I had one last week.
Didn't I just see a post by someone who fixed all kinds of problems by running a new ground from the BPM module?
#3
11-05-2015, 02:52 PM
Veteran Member
#4
11-05-2015, 03:18 PM
Hi guys, I went to buy a new battery months ago, took my battery with me to the shop.
He tested the old one on his load meter and said it is performing better than it is rated for. rating 650 got 713 on the load meter.
So he refused to sell me one as it could not be that.
When charged seconds after disconnect it read 13.4v. After a few hours it drops to 12.9v.
After 2 days connected in the car the voltage is 12.6v.
As I said it gets a new charge when it drops below 12.4v
I replied to the BPM fix thread yesterday as I believed it would solve my problem.
Yesterday I tried a ohm test from Battery negative to rear seat earth post (LH heel board) and then from that rear earth post to the LH footwell Earth post for the heater. Both 0.01 Ohm. I then tested whether or not the metalwork of the dash / glove box / bpm connects to was also a good earth.
Unfortunately it was a good earth so not an obvious problem but hey I thought I will still connect a new earth lead to outside of BPM metal case.
After testing both of them I connected a good quality high current wire
from the LH footwell earth stud to the outside of the BPM.
No difference unfortunately.
Alarm still mucks around immobilising away.
He tested the old one on his load meter and said it is performing better than it is rated for. rating 650 got 713 on the load meter.
So he refused to sell me one as it could not be that.
When charged seconds after disconnect it read 13.4v. After a few hours it drops to 12.9v.
After 2 days connected in the car the voltage is 12.6v.
As I said it gets a new charge when it drops below 12.4v
I replied to the BPM fix thread yesterday as I believed it would solve my problem.
Yesterday I tried a ohm test from Battery negative to rear seat earth post (LH heel board) and then from that rear earth post to the LH footwell Earth post for the heater. Both 0.01 Ohm. I then tested whether or not the metalwork of the dash / glove box / bpm connects to was also a good earth.
Unfortunately it was a good earth so not an obvious problem but hey I thought I will still connect a new earth lead to outside of BPM metal case.
After testing both of them I connected a good quality high current wire
from the LH footwell earth stud to the outside of the BPM.
No difference unfortunately.
Alarm still mucks around immobilising away.
#6
11-05-2015, 09:08 PM
Veteran Member
#7
11-06-2015, 03:27 AM
Trending Topics
#8
03-22-2016, 09:52 AM
Hi been doing lots of things and Jag took a back seat for a while.
Thanks to Nigel May for pointing me onto something to test in detail.
Long and the short of it is the Relays & fuses were fine, however the fuse boxes them selves 4/5 of them had either dry joint in the solder or copper oxide corrosion in them where water/condensation had built up and damage the circuit print.
I need to upload all the photos I took, but having taken apart then soldered the dry joint in the main engine bay fuse box (took 4 days for me to solder and broke my old gas powered soldering iron) and then replaced the 2 rear seat fuse boxes with ebay 2nd hand units I found I had the same problem. Took the ebay units apart and found they had the same corrosion inside them.
Checked price on new fuseboxes from Jaguar dealer and had heart attack. Decided the make my own custom fuse box for the rear seat section.
2 months of checking later and my fuse boxes have CURED THE PROBLEM!
Thanks to Nigel May for pointing me onto something to test in detail.
Long and the short of it is the Relays & fuses were fine, however the fuse boxes them selves 4/5 of them had either dry joint in the solder or copper oxide corrosion in them where water/condensation had built up and damage the circuit print.
I need to upload all the photos I took, but having taken apart then soldered the dry joint in the main engine bay fuse box (took 4 days for me to solder and broke my old gas powered soldering iron) and then replaced the 2 rear seat fuse boxes with ebay 2nd hand units I found I had the same problem. Took the ebay units apart and found they had the same corrosion inside them.
Checked price on new fuseboxes from Jaguar dealer and had heart attack. Decided the make my own custom fuse box for the rear seat section.
2 months of checking later and my fuse boxes have CURED THE PROBLEM!
The following 6 users liked this post by JimboDee:
andrew lowe (03-22-2016),
Don B (02-29-2024),
Jhartz (03-22-2016),
popeye68 (08-18-2017),
Samilcar (03-22-2016),
and 1 others liked this post.
