XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

Power steering?

 
  #1  
Old 09-16-2015, 09:22 AM
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Default Power steering?

So, I am having my power steering system flushed today, and apparently the VDP required 1qt of either Mobil ATF or Dexron IV?

Assuming this is correct, which of these two are the better product?

The Jaguar Vehicle Care Handbook states to "top off with DEXRON III"
 

Last edited by Bcrary3; 09-16-2015 at 09:31 AM.
  #2  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:16 AM
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I think any Dexron III works.
 
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:17 PM
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You probably won't be able to find actual Dexron III, but you'll find things like Dex/Merc, Dexron VI and "Automatic Transmission Fluid" that claim to be backward compatible with Dexron II/III. Since you are having your entire steering system flushed, you should be fine with any of those choices. It's just not advisable to mix different fluids in the system.

If you can find Redline D4 ATF (I think either AutoZone or Advance stores sometimes stock it), it is the closest fluid I've found to the viscosity of Dexron III and is the fluid that works best in the ZF 4-speed transmission in our '93. Dexron VI and other modern fluids have a lower viscosity index and would not fully lock up the torque converter (which I didn't realize till I switched to D4).

I haven't heard of any complaints from using Dexron VI or other modern fluids in Jag steering systems, so you should be fine (I think I'm using Valvoline synthetic Dexron VI in our '93).

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:23 PM
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Yeah.. The stuff that I am getting is AutoZone house brand "DEXRON III/MERC" or so the guy said over the phone. I know not to mix different fluids, so I am having the whole system flushed anyway (may not benefit anything, but what could it harm?)

I am contemplating a trans flush too, but am worried about doing that, as I have heard of people who had the ZF tranny flushed and in a few thousand miles the trans goes out... I am going to put in a new pressure control valve and maybe a new a-clutch drum so that'd be the time..
 
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcrary3 View Post
I am contemplating a trans flush too, but am worried about doing that, as I have heard of people who had the ZF tranny flushed and in a few thousand miles the trans goes out... I am going to put in a new pressure control valve and maybe a new a-clutch drum so that'd be the time..

Do your homework about transmission fluid. Lots of aftermarket fluid makers claim their fluids are compatible with the ZF 5HP24, but the last time I checked, ZF still specifies only Lifeguard 5 (curiously, they still specify Dexron III for the 4-speed boxes and not one of the more modern fluids).

Cheers,

Don
 
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2015, 01:01 PM
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Where can I find "Lifeguard 5" and who is it made by?

Thanks
 
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcrary3 View Post
Where can I find "Lifeguard 5" and who is it made by?

Thanks

Lifeguard 5 is branded by ZF but is probably made by one of the major oil companies (I'm not sure which one, but Lifeguard 6 for the 6-speed transmissions is made by Shell).

One source for Lifeguard 5 is Bavarian Autosports (many BMWs use the same ZF transmission):

Welcome to bavauto.com | ZF Lifeguard 5 fluid - For 5 speed automatic transmissions - 1 Liter


Another good source of ZF transmission supplies is the California Transmission Supply Co. A quick search of their website for Lifeguard 5 didn't get a result, but they would be worth consulting:

The CTSC - ZF Parts

As I mentioned before, do your homework. I have only researched the Lifeguard 6 fluid for our X350, but this forum probably has reports from owners who have tried fluids other than Lifeguard 5, and you'll want to know if the results were positive or negative. ATF fluids can have dramatically different properties. In general, modern fluids have lower viscosity indices and different friction modifiers than older fluids, and they may not be the best choice for our older transmissions, even if the manufacturer states their fluid is "backward compatible."

Here's a link to ZF's oil recommendations by transmission:

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...omendation.pdf

But do your homework!!!

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 09-16-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:49 PM
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OH GOD here we go again with the ATF debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bob gauff
 
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by motorcarman View Post
OH GOD here we go again with the ATF debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!

Alright, Bob. End the debate before it even starts and tell us which fluid or fluids are good for use in a 5HP24?

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 09-16-2015 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:28 AM
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I think I will probably just stick with the Lifeguard 5 for the tranny... Although I am not sure that I am going to flush it, just rebuild it maybe... I have no idea if it has ever been done. A lot of people suggest it is a bad idea to flush a high milage trans if it has never been done before, and I presume there really is no way of knowing.

As far as the ATF that was used in the power steering fluid, I put in about a quart of Dexron VI... Hoping all goes well. With the new ATF in the steering system, it really feels much nicer.
 
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Old 09-25-2015, 02:11 AM
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The original fluid is Mobil ATF 320 -- The last I checked Jaguar still sells it. Comes in a Mobil bottle. I keep one on the shelf .

It's an odd duck -- they still use it in aviation. It has good low temp properties and is compatible with a wide variety of seals

It was/ is a Dex IIIG .... I believe the widely used replacement is the Mobile ATF D/M -- that is a Dex IIIH
 
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:11 PM
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I have seen several members on here recommend a product called Lucas power steering revive, or something like that. I can't find this product in the Lucas line.

Is this simply the Lucas power steering fluid with conditioners pictured below?

Thanks
 
Attached Thumbnails Power steering?-lucas.jpg  
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by yeldogt View Post
The original fluid is Mobil ATF 320 -- The last I checked Jaguar still sells it. Comes in a Mobil bottle. I keep one on the shelf .

It's an odd duck -- they still use it in aviation. It has good low temp properties and is compatible with a wide variety of seals

It was/ is a Dex IIIG .... I believe the widely used replacement is the Mobile ATF D/M -- that is a Dex IIIH

Hi yeldogt,

Just to be certain no one misunderstands, Dexron III was the originally-specified fluid for the X308 power steering system, not the transmission. There has also been some transmission fluid discussion in this thread, and I'd hate for anyone to misunderstand and put Dexron III in their ZF 5HP24.

According to the X308 Workshop Manual I have, the originally-specified fluid for the ZF 5HP24 was Esso ATF LT 71141, which was apparently superseded by ZF Lifeguard 5 (which is probably the same forumula). Here's a link to ZF's current recommendations for the various boxes they have supplied to Jaguar (and BMW and others):

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...omendation.pdf

One of the interesting things about this document is that, while companies like Mobil 1, Valvoline and others claim that their modern ATFs are "backward compatible" with older fluids like Dexron III, ZF does not agree with the idea of backward compatibility in transmission fluids. They don't recommend their latest Lifeguard 8 for the 6-speed boxes, they don't recommend LG6 for the 5-speed boxes, and they don't recommend LG5 for the 4-speed boxes. Make of that what you will, but you owe it to yourself to compare all the published specifications of any fluid with those of the ZF-specified fluid before you choose to deviate from their recommendations. Using a modern fluid with a lower viscosity index than your gearbox was designed for may not be a recipe for success (it wasn't in our '93).

BTW, yeldogt, do you have any documentation regarding the original P/S fluid being Mobil ATF 320? I know Esso stood for "Standard Oil," and the brand is now owned by ExxonMobil, but if Mobil can be documented as an original supplier to Jaguar I would love to add it to the list of known OEMs (see the link in my signature).

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 09-27-2015 at 02:28 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2015, 10:36 AM
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Yes - Power Steering (P/S)

The P/S system is Hydraulic as are both types of Transmissions fitted to the x308. Most cars fitted with P/S use some form of fluid normally sold as "transmission" or "ATF" fluid. Rolls Royce and Mercedes vehicles fitted with leveling suspension being exceptions as they often use a combination pump for both systems and require a different fluid.

The Mobil ATF 320 was listed someplace -- I can't remember. I also remember seeing it listed in a TSB (I think) for a service action on the PS system. The old bottles may have been ESSO in Europe. That is what you will get at the Jaguar dealer if they sell you the correct stuff. It's not widely sold in the USA - mine is from the dealer. This has been the fluid for a long time -- it was specified in my 1995 x300 bought in 1994 -- the older Jaguar P/S systems made noise when cold and the x300 was designed to eliminate as many of the old Jaguar foibles as possible. The ATF 320 must have been one of the early low temp fluids developed in the early 90's.

The discussion of fluids is always a sticky one -- I keep my cars for a long time so I have no reason to save a few pennies in switching from OE. New is not always better -- when talking old cars.

The original ZF transmission in the non- S/C cars came with ZF fluid. The base specification was 71141 .. But -- if you get a new or rebuilt transmission from ZF or authorized rebuilder they are very specific about using the exact ZF fluid .. not the base 71141.

The S/C cars came with the Mercedes transmission -- Mercedes no longer sells the original 236.10 fluid. MB sells a newer fluid (236-14) that they say is backward compatible. I have used the Fuchs Titan 3353 that meets an earlier and closer (236-12) in my 222.6 boxes as fitted to the X308 w S/C. I don't know what is in the bottles that Jaguar currently sells. Since the 236.10 is no longer made ... and Fuchs was the maker ... My guess is it has to be the 236.14 or the older 236.12

Important: The Fuchs 3353 is on the MB approved list -- it is the 236.12 fluid. The .12 was developed for the next generation transmissions with a regulated torque converter lockup clutch .. the transmissions in the XJR were earlier and do not have this feature and were supplied with the .10 fluid. The .14 fluid is much different and is for the 6 and 7 speed boxes.

The other problem with all of this: All of these fluids are a base Dextron III generation. Technically they are Dextron III. Meeting a base specification does not equate to having the exact or correct fluid as they are all blended with additives to achieve the results that a particular application requires.

Same goes with "Synthetic" ... it's all synthetic. It's not a petroleum based fluid -- the early fluids (up to the 70's) used whale oil as the modifier -- that is why they had a horrid smell.
 

Last edited by yeldogt; 09-26-2015 at 10:45 AM.
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