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XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

XJR handles terrible.

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Old 10-04-2018, 04:34 PM
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Default XJR handles terrible.

I really need to get to the bottom of this,
My x308 XJR is all over the road,pulls quite hard to the left sometimes, sometimes it'll go straight if I let go, but it's always needing correction, 70mph does not feel good at all.
I've had it at 3 garages now and non could find any play in of the bushes other than the lower rear shock bushes (I will be attempting this is situ tomorrow), all else looks like it was changed recently.

I know I can't adjust the rear camber without the shimms, but here's a print out of my current measurements, they said other than the rear camber it all is ok and shouldnt cause it to wander and pull but the numbers seem all over the place to me?
Another place said they will adjust the rear first once I've changed the shock bushes, then do the front.

Is the current measurements be where I should be focusing or should I be looking elsewhere?


 

Last edited by owas; 10-04-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:50 PM
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I doubt that the front shock bushings, unless all of the rubber is gone and the bolt is rattling around will correct you front alignment. Has anyone taken a dial indicator to the wheels to check for a damaged rim? It is possible that the wheel is bad.
 
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:43 PM
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Just another thing to toss on, but how are the tires? have you rotated them to see if it affects anything? Does it handle differently in corners vs straights? The pivot pin bearings on mine went to junk. On straight smooth roads it was fine, but any bumps or corners would jump the tire enough to make the back dance all over. Couple that with worn tires, and it was downright dangerous, especially in the wet. Once I changed to newer tires, it solved the traction and dancing problem in wet weather and over bumps, but on certain sharper right hand corners at speed, the worn bearing will still cause it to wander in the rear. But I also know that sometimes when i park the wheel sits perfectly fine, even with them the way they are on that corner. I would imagine it would be noticed during an alignment, but just throwing guesses. Would be easy to check, just lift the wheel off the ground and try to move it back and forth.

I do know that tires do some wacky things for no reasons though.
 
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:42 PM
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What type of tires are you running and on what wheels?
 
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by owas View Post
I really need to get to the bottom of this,
My x308 XJR is all over the road,pulls quite hard to the left sometimes, sometimes it'll go straight if I let go, but it's always needing correction.
In this case, I would primarily look at the steering rack (the track rods), the wheel bearings and the suspension bushes (other than the shock absorbers'). Did you have the subframe bushes checked?
 
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:17 PM
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Something to review...https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2/#post1567209

May as well post these...

 
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:57 AM
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I've got brand new Bridgestone potenzas on standard XJR wheels.

Replaced the rack for a good used one last week including the track rod ends, no better.

No play in any of the wheels.
The rear shock bushes don't actually have any movement and seem to act normally when I push the back down, just the rubber boot is split, I doubt the handling is affected much by it tbh.

I haven't swapped the wheels around, I'll get on that today and see if anything improves.

The alignment results are confusing me, I was told that they're whinin spec and fine but shouldnt the readings be fairly similar both sides?






​​​​​​


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Old 10-05-2018, 09:34 AM
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Hi,

First I'd like to ask you to provide some more info on your vehicle. Mileage? What kind of suspension work has been already performed to it? Any parts replaced (except of the steering rack)?

The alignment results are confusing me, I was told that they're whinin spec and fine but shouldnt the readings be fairly similar both sides?
Yes, they're within specs but when I did my suspension measurements, I strove to get the results for both sides as close together as possible. As your suspension might be worn out from age and/or mileage (without any noticeable play yet) this might be the way to go. A brand new suspension surely can cope better with the figures being all over the specs but I doubt that an old suspension will do the same.

When I experienced similar issues with my XJR, I renewed the bushes of the front control arms (part 9 and 14, see first figure in Highhorse's post above) as well as their ball joints (part 8 and 13). When examining the suspension prior to replacement I didn't notice any play in any of the bushes and balljoints!!!! No rattling etc. But when I inspected the lower bushes (part 14) with a prybar there was a little to much allowed movement for my liking. So I bit the bullet, replaced all the bushings and I was rewarded with a suberb ride again. Due to ageing the old bushes went softer instead of getting hard and brittle. When replacing the bushes you can kill two birds with one stone and do the balljoints too. As already stated above I had NO play on the lift etc. But when the balljoints were out I found two of them being shot or at least on their way out! The new balljoints were a lot stiffer and harder to move back and forth by hand than the two wornout parts.

The rear pivot bearings already had been mentioned above. They're definitely worth a try too. In contrast to the works at the front axle, the pivot bearings can easily be replaced in situ.

Concerning the rear camber: Before you start shimming the output shaft make sure that the foam bushes on top of the rear shocks are in good shape. From mileage, age and weight of the car they do compress over the years. This causes the chassis to sag down on the rear, which affects the ride height and therefore the camber too.

All above depicted actions had been performed to my MY2000 XJR with mileage between 110 - 140k mls. Dependant on usage the wear happens likely sooner than later ;-)

Cheers, Alexander
 
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by owas View Post
I've got brand new Bridgestone potenzas on standard XJR wheels.​​​​​​
There are different wheels and width's for these cars. Most casual models are 8" wide, but performance models tend to have 9" and performance tires. But that doesn't preclude an owner changing them, which is very common. Those Potenza's come in about 30 different models and tread patterns. I'm trying to determine if your getting the pull from a too aggressive tread pattern or perhaps a broken belt? I had an issue with Goodyear Eagles pulling on mine, I couldn't get rid of them quick enough.

 
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
There are different wheels and width's for these cars. Most casual models are 8" wide, but performance models tend to have 9" and performance tires. But that doesn't preclude an owner changing them, which is very common. Those Potenza's come in about 30 different models and tread patterns. I'm trying to determine if your getting the pull from a too aggressive tread pattern or perhaps a broken belt? I had an issue with Goodyear Eagles pulling on mine, I couldn't get rid of them quick enough.
Sorry was away from the car and could only remember that,
It is 255/40 R18 95Y Potenza RE050A
but it was terrible beforehand when it worn pzeros on too.

Would a good plan of action be to get the rear rebushed and see if it improves anything (I have a full set of polybushes) then do the front of not?


 
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:14 PM
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In the three years I owned my last X308, I had the wheels aligned by a local Sears store, then the "best" guy in Virginia Beach: car still wandered, but the settings were pretty close to same right and left side and within specs front to back. New tires, new shocks, new bushings, etc. Took it to the dealer: they got the alignment nearly perfect. Never wandered again. But, none of the three of my alignments looked as bad as yours.

 

Last edited by Jhartz; 10-05-2018 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:43 PM
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Not sure if this helps you or not, these are the specs from the recent alignment on my XJ8 VDP,

The alignment was done because the car was veering to the right, after the alignment the car runs straight and true, and handles exceptionally well,
It is running on new stock size (225x60x16) Pirelli P7s.

.
 
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:21 PM
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Okay I'm getting the feeling I just need to have this set up properly, but the 2 places I've had it at now have said it's fine and in spec,
ive been under again and I'm now convinced pretty much all the bushes are new.

​​​​​Not sure what to do.





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Old 10-05-2018, 08:09 PM
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There are places that do alignments, and there are alignment shops. They drive the car, get a feel for what it is doing, or not doing, and through experience and expertise, interpret that into what needs to be done (tires, suspension, alignment, etc.) I am lucky in that there is a local shop that has exceptional reputations for 1st class alignment/suspension work and I know when I take my car there, they will diagnose and fix it without fail. Maybe you could ask around and find who are the "reputable" guys in your area who are expert in such fields, sometimes you can chase your tail trying to cure a problem that an expert can diagnose and fix in short order.
 
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:01 PM
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Where are you located owas, I see the alignment paper says Right Hand Drive....perhaps someone local may be able to recommend a reliable shop? Those 2 shops that say its fine apparently hadn't aligned a Jag before.
Do you know if your car has been in a wreck? I'm wondering if the frame is square? ...and I agree with Jhartz.

I'm not trying to throw cold water on the situation, but here's some reviews I C&P'd and something I suspected is a hard tire from the descriptions and that'll give you a bad ride. These were all Beemers...335, 650 and Z4 and almost everyone was a Beemer and everyone was crying about how bad these are.

February 15, 2018I absolutely HATE these tires. I love winter when I can switch to snow tires because it is easier to drive with those on even in snow. These tires are loud and if the road is wet the car is all over the road. They are unforgiving and you feel everything. If the pavement is a little rough on one side sure it uneven you can bet you are going to be pulled in one direction or another. Driving is work with these tires and you better not looose concentration. I cannot wait to get a different set of tires! Worst tires I have ever had and probably the most expensive as well.

I only copied part of this, he went on forever...
April 30, 2018I've owned my 2009 BMW 650i Conv. with S Pkg. for 6 years. Car is seasonal (ONLY driven April - Sept due to crazy NY weather) & currently has only 57,000 original Miles. I purchased the car in 2012 with 30,000. Very well kept. Car ONLY serviced by BMW dealers and has never missed a maintenance. BMW checks alignment, balance & whole front end & all good. Most damage to RFT's is done when hitting a Pothole or driving rough roads at even slow speeds! I've always only used OEM Bridgestone Potenza "Made for BMW Only" RFT on this car & left me tell you these tires ----! There are so many bad things I could say about these tires but I won't bore you. I will only name a few things which make these tires ----:

September 19, 2018Both the most expensive and worst tire I’ve owned. Horrible on anything but dry pavement. Worse, documented tendency for the sidewall to come apart without hitting anything. Happened twice to me in 2,000 miles. Bridgestone won’t stand behind it. Avoid this tire!












 
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:02 PM
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Are you in Japan? There was a guy in Yokohama that aligned my Bavaria, perfectly -- but that was 40 years ago . . . .
 
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:54 PM
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I'm in the UK (Birmingham),
I've just been told about a garage down the road from me that has a few ex jagaur dealer mechanics, I'll pop down Monday and see if they can take a look.

i had a similar issue on my defender, I eventually tracked it down to the radius arm nut having come slightly loose, 3 garages missed that!
Hoping it's something as simple
 
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:10 PM
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Good to know: and good luck. You might also try lowering the pressure on the Protenzas.
 
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:37 PM
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I'd suggest locating the local bodyshop that carries out insurance work - they'll have access to an alignment specialist. It's the route I took when I initially set my car up.

You'll know when it's setup correctly, gas-waft....centering wheel etc.

Re the Potenza - try lowering the pressure to comfort level and see if it tracks any better. I found higher pressures on one particular road, the car felt like it was possessed for a moment due to bad ruts.

What is it like under hard braking and are the calipers/ discs/pads in good order (fronts)?
 
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean B View Post
I'd suggest locating the local bodyshop that carries out insurance work - they'll have access to an alignment specialist. It's the route I took when I initially set my car up.

You'll know when it's setup correctly, gas-waft....centering wheel etc.

Re the Potenza - try lowering the pressure to comfort level and see if it tracks any better. I found higher pressures on one particular road, the car felt like it was possessed for a moment due to bad ruts.

What is it like under hard braking and are the calipers/ discs/pads in good order (fronts)?
Tried lowering the pressures today, didn't make much difference.

If the road is causing it to pull while driving, it'll get exaggerated if I brake hard, but it'll brake nice and straight if it's not pulling.
Brake components all seem to be in good order.
Ill be asking the next place I take it to get the toe settings as close to the center line as possible,
I just can't believe that on a car like this, anywhere between min and max is ok?

 

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