XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking

 
  #1  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:49 PM
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Default 77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking

Long story short, used RTV silicone on trans and oil pan gasket - both sides of gasket.

Drive it outside the garage 30 feet and back. Not a hint of a leak - long time.

Drive it six miles around the local loop and both pans leaking like a sieve after sitting for a day.

Bolts are as loose as my ex-wives. Tighten, all good till I heat it up again.

How do I do this right?
 
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:03 AM
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Forget the gasket/s.

I gave up on them long ago on all my V12's.

The pan of the trans was the first.

Make up 2 or 4 studs, with a slot in the end, to insert in some of the holes in the trans case face. These are to "guide" the pan into place in a straight direction as versus a sliding motion, to line up the holes.

Clean the pan face AND the trans face so there is NO oil residue in sight. This can be fiddly, but is critical. Any oily film and the RTV will not seal.

Apply Hi-Temp RTV in a 4mm bead around the pan face, paying attention to a circle at the numerous bolt holes, then slide the pan over the alignment studs you inserted, and apply LIGHT pressure against the trans face. Insert 4 bolts and tighten FINGER TIGHT ONLY.

I come back next morning and fit the remaining bolts, and remove the studs, then tighten to a FIRM pressure only. The setting you allowed, has basically made an RTV gasket to the exact shape of any imperfections that a cork/paper/whatever gasket cannot do.

I also did the same with the engine pan, and the alloy sandwich plate, and most other ancillary gaskets.

Removal when required is simple. Slide a putty knife under the edge and a quick slide around part of the circumference has it release and drop.

This has ceased those incessant oil leaks that have annoyed me for many years with the XK and V12 engines.

Even the camcover gaskets have been eliminated with the use of RTV only.
 

Last edited by Grant Francis; 06-06-2014 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:54 AM
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Thanks Grant, 2 trans pan gaskets failed on my XJ6. My Jeep has RTV in both diffs as there is no genuine or after market gaskets available.(no leaks what so ever)
I will try this as I have a rather large fluid patch on my drive,street and work park space.

 
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:24 AM
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That RTV is pretty good stuff.

When I changed the thermostat in the 304 CI V8 that powered my IHC Scout II, the housing was actually in two biggish cast iron pieces and clumsy to access because of it's front hinged hood/bonnett. Scrawny paper gasket would not stay in place while I tried to get the bolts in. A smear on the sealing surfaces of RTV and it was leakless til the day it left.

The ram horn iron manifolds on my LT1 are sealed with high temp RTV. No leaks and a joy to install. Not in the car, but on the ground while bering prepped for the install.

As to aluminum, I learned via a couple of Corvairs, that over tightening is a cross purpose and causes leaks rather than stop them.

Agree, studs over bolts whenever possible.

Way back, early mechanics used thread and grease to hold cork and paper gaskets in place to get all the fasteners in.

Early on, kid friend Billy and I became enamored of Black and red Permatex to make T's not leak. That is after the gal next door that we referred to as "camshaft". I'm not sure if she ever caught on? Nice bumps!!!

Carl
 
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
The setting you allowed, has basically made an RTV gasket to the exact shape of any imperfections that a cork/paper/whatever gasket cannot do.
Yep. Makes sense. I am not even sure if I used the genuine high temp RTV. Doubt it would have mattered given the gasket sandwich I whipped up.

Will advise as to how it goes.

Many thanks.
 
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
Apply Hi-Temp RTV in a 4mm bead around the pan face, paying attention to a circle at the numerous bolt holes
I know the answer but just want to double check.

The pan face does not mean filling the valley of the elongated ovals, right?
 
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:53 PM
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You are correct Bob.

Just a bead around the "outer edge", with a deliberate "loop" around each bolt hole.

When installing over the studs, hold your mouth at the required angle, and "look" for the ooze of RTV all around the edge. Once sighted STOP. Let it set off. If some ooze is evident in vacant bolt holes, install those bplts "finger tight".
 
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:26 PM
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Setting up now. I had to use a 3/8th knurled extension with my fingers to get the bolts finger snug. But as soon as the edge ooze started squishing, I stopped.

Cleaned all faces and bore holes with brake cleaner. Used MEK for final clean on the flat surfaces. It's been open for two weeks so the residual from block was dormant.
 
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:33 PM
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Good one.

One question.

WHAT WE DRINKING WHILE WE WAIT.
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:24 AM
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MEK,now that is something you can't but anymore. I think they banned it here in the 80's
 

Last edited by o1xjr; 06-20-2014 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:05 AM
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methyl ethel ketone!!! I thought that stuff was gone decades ago.


And, "modern' solvents are a bit tame, carb cleaner, "chemicals unknown" or even brake cleaner, "alcohol" do a decent job.


last event here called for "Trader Jose", a sore brand by Trader Joe. probably Corona, a popular import. Once great, now domesticated to Coors flavor. OK, but ???


Better local brews abound.


Carl
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
methyl ethel ketone!!! I thought that stuff was gone decades ago.



You can still buy it.


It's widely used in the aerospace industry


Stig
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:26 AM
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You can still buy it.

It's widely used in the aerospace industry
You probably have to have special permit to obtain it though,it was widely used in the printing industry,but even in the late 80's it was too hard to get a permit for it for us to pursue it,so we went to using CTC(Carbon tetrachloride) or more commonly known as dry cleaning fluid. But they banned that too.
Now we use **** weak solvents and elbow grease,(not me,the off-siders ),mind you paint stipper is still allowed but that too is nothing like the old stuff.
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
Now we use **** weak solvents and elbow grease.


It's at least good for your brain.


I personally avoid the use of MEK.




Stig
 
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
.....so we went to using CTC(Carbon tetrachloride) or more commonly known as dry cleaning fluid. But they banned that too.
I think they banned it in the US for other than commercial purposes before the 80's. WIKI says 1970. We used to soak a cotton ball with it and put it in a jar and catch bumble bees on flowering bushes. Once they were in the jar with the lid on top, one second till lights out. There was no X-Box back then so........

I sometimes clean paint guns with MEK. Frankly, I like using lacquer thinner and a stout paint stripper better. My local auto paint jobber sells it and I bet half the stuff they sell me should require a permit given the nasty stuff in paint hardeners. However, I bought this recent gallon of MEK at the DIY big box hardware store. Right next to the trisodium phosphate. I don't know why it's still available given the unfavorable health ramifications. California is way more strict that Ohio. No phosphates, no old school urethane with hardener and probably no MEK.

Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
WHAT WE DRINKING WHILE WE WAIT.
Only the finest Milwaukees Best Ice during routine production days. Cheap beer, but has a bite in the taste that I like.

On days I've finished a big job and have a bit of "extry" cash, I like to snag a couple large growlers of craft beer. Mainly pilsner. Kind of a wimp when it comes to IPA. I had my run with Jack, scotch, Manhattans and G&T's. Don't get me wrong, I still love the stuff. I just have a problem throttling back to keep the alcohol level even with a beer day. In short, I get drunk for real.
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
Forget the gasket/s.

I gave up on them long ago on all my V12's.

The pan of the trans was the first.

Make up 2 or 4 studs, with a slot in the end, to insert in some of the holes in the trans case face. These are to "guide" the pan into place in a straight direction as versus a sliding motion, to line up the holes.
I decided today is the day to start this job,have the car up on stands anyway for another reason so may as well do it while it's off the floor.
Grant,
I have made up 2 studs 5/16 x 1 1/2",or would it be better with 4? Still have to slot the ends as just re-read that part,I assume that is for removing the studs with a screwdriver once the RTV gets to them.
Will the Grey Maxx silicone do the job, I use it on diffs,bike cam covers ,muffler joints and works for all those applications. The guy at Repco suggested Blue Maxx would work better.( but I already have grey in the stock pile) Blue is rated at 260 c, Grey at 200 c. Both oil and fuel resistant.
One would assume if your trans is anywhere near 200c then the type of RTV is the least of your worries.
Beer o'clock came around early today,so had to give up at 2pm. A mate turned up at 2 with a cold 6 pack,oil filter and 4 litres of oil. So I pulled up a stool and watched him change his oil on his bike. His garage floor is too nice for that kind of thing,doesn't want his centre stand to mark the painted floor.



77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking-dsc_0233.jpg77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking-dsc_0236.jpg77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking-dsc_0237.jpg
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:30 AM
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Clarke,

YEP, too good.

Blue Max is more for water stuff that I remember (hahahaha). I use Red Hi-Temp, coz I got heaps on special ages ago.

Yes, the slots are for removing the studs, coz the RTV usually grabs them a tad. 2 should be fine. They are used by me to enable the OLD eyes, and twisted hands to position that pan DEAD SQUARE, as any sideways movement to re-align will upset the bead.

Just had an awesome steak, and Merlot, so off for my beauty sleep (I know it aint working), as a 7AM start tomorrow.
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
Just had an awesome steak, and Merlot, so off for my beauty sleep (I know it aint working), as a 7AM start tomorrow.
I'm on day 2 of a 7 day break now so I'll have your share of the Cab/sav I just opened. Then onto a six or so week stretch of working Thu/Fri/Sat...could be worse, but it knobbled a well planned weekend on the Coffs Coast enjoying the hospitality of the cat_as_trophy house hold.
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:05 AM
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The stud locater system is very useful in many places.


1. I have a semi derelict VW based Dune buggy in the drive. I had the much fatter front wheels off to check lout the bearings and brakes. it uses lug bolts into the hub. the very devil to manhandle the wheel and find the holes and get a start. I cut the heads off a pair of longish hardware quality bolts to make them into semi studs. I include a taper to make it easier to slide the wheel hole on to them. Much better. Two studs, align the wheel, install there bolts, remove locaters, install the other two bolts. done. Repeat on the other side. kept hem in tool box!!


When I installed the LY1 in the Jaguar, the GM AC hoses are paired and fit onto the compressor deep down in the bowels of the engine bay. I made a pair of slotted studs ala Grant Francis'. Got eh O rings on place, then the coupled hoses. Then the nuts onto the studs. I left the studs in place. Just fine as fasteners. The slots served to set them, rather than to remove them.


When I did the relay rack, I made a rack with a row of studs. Relays attached via Nylocs. Much easier than bolts or screws.


Working on the 50's vintage Roto Hoe. Bunch of slotted screws and square nuts.
But, I'll keep them.


It is getting updated wheels. The old solid rubber tires just powder!!! it used Cotter pins and washers to locate them on the axle. I've created stops. Drilled out and filed the threads on hardware 1/2" nuts to fit the 1/2" axle. Drilled and taped on flat for an Allen bolt as a grub screw. Shims for the 5/8' holed wheels from tubing. A bit fiddly to assemble all that stuff, but it oughta work.


It was nice to bring it's ancient Lauson engine back to life.


Now to find an air cleaner and a drive belt for it.


Jaguar purrs. Great as daughter has my Jeep!!


Apologies for the sorta off topic ramble.
Carl


Carl
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
Apologies for the sorta off topic ramble.
Carl


Carl
Carl, off topic makes for a more friendly forum. And we get to know a bit about each other and more people get involved in the threads in a round a bout way.



I will always maintain it only takes one post to get a thread back on track.

As for pictures,all of you should post more. A thread with no pictures is a waste.


77 XJ12L oil/trans pan gasket leaking-dsc_0219.jpg
 

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