I'm rebuilding a engine to go in my Jaguar. Unfortunately both my crankshafts are bad. I got a engine from someone because it started dropping oil pressure when hot. The idea was to take out my crankshaft and put it in there. I felt both crankshafts and mine feels worse. I'd say nearly hair deep scratches? I could use very thin sandpaper to make the crankshaft smooth again but this will be very precise and I don't know if I want to risk that. I can't afford to let a machine shop do it for me. Could buy another engine that looks terrible but may have a good crankshaft?

How are the crankshaft and flywheel balanced? Seperate or together? Do I need to re-balance something?

I took off a housing from the front of a old automatic. I used it make an ''adapter'' because I couldn't get the engine itself properly attached to the block. Is this safe, or could the housing break because of the weight?

By the way this engine is ment to last long. Its also a matter of cost but I want the engine as good as I can make it with no prior experience on rebuilding engines. If I trust my job enough it might go to Norway (5000 kilometres)

First pictures are from my engine, that was in the car:




My crankshaft original engine Crankshaft 0.10





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





My crankshaft original engine





Crankshaft from the new engine in the front, new engine block behind it. STD, pistons are 0.20





New crankshaft





New crankshaft





New crankshaft





New crankshaft

 

Crankshaft journal refinishing is a precise job that is best left to a machine shop unfortunately. If the journals need to be refinished, they have to be done so to accept the appropriate oversize bearings. I do not think you can win this battle with sandpaper.

FWIW

 

Thats looks really bad. When every journal is wiped like that something serious happened to the engine systemically. Could be a bad oil pump, cracked block or head so perhaps water contaminated the oil. I wouldn't invest a dime in these engines unless you can positively identify what went wrong to cause such damage. The dark color stripes indicate extreme heat from friction. I dont know if the supply of used engines in the Netherlands is as plentiful as it is here in the USA but I'd look for a good engine from a rusted out donor car. I'd only rebuild a tired engine not one that self destructed unless you know why and the cause can be corrected.

 

Yeah, ok. Your crankshafts are bad. The is what my crankshaft looks with 150,000 miles after the journals were cleaned. Look below: Those journals should have a mirror finish almost.

 

What age are these engines ? The engine number will be either 7L<nnnn> or 8L<nnnn>, what have you got ? Both engines suffer cracking between the bores until the later 8L blocks had the coolant passages between the bores changed. This is easy to see because there will be narrow slots between the bores. These later engines also have the Sursulf hardened crankshafts that tolerate poor lubrication conditions better.


The main thing to check is the concentricity of the journals - are any journals oval ? This can only be done with a micrometer. You have to take a series of measurements at various points around the journal and compare them.
The other thing to do is to remove the plugs to the sludge traps, clear out the sludge and insert new plugs. They can be extremely difficult to remove, (they are staked in with a centre punch), but it's likely you'll find the traps almost blocked and preventing free oil flow to the bearings hence why you see these marks on the journals.


The fact is if you're rebuilding an engine, you put in new bearings, so it's a waste of money if the crank journals are worn out, as the new bearings won't last very long.


From your post, it seems you are seriously impecunious, and really need to think if you can afford to rebuild such an engine. There are the timing chains to replace, and the coolant passages to clear out so you'll need to put in new core plugs, and then there is the cylinder head. If you want any degree of reliability you really must do the job properly, or someway between Holland and Norway, you'll be stuck by the road with a failed engine.


I hope I don't sound too harsh as I have been there when I was young, but then it was motorbikes that cost less in parts. Really, it is difficult to know what to recommend, but always try to do the best you can afford.

 

Hello,

The original engine is from March 1969, the new engine is from 1970. Both are 7L. Both have no cracks between the bores.

Yesterday I had a visit from someone in a XK120! He gave me great advice on what to do. He felt all the surfaces of both crankshafts and recommended to put something teflon and oil on the bearrings when assembling. Also advice on the measuring, will buy a gauge for that soon.

So, the crankshaft can go back in. Have to run it hot then add Slick50.

Right now I'm looking for oil seals that don't cost more than a second hand engine. Will buy a engine block for €50 which is cheaper than €15 per stud. I don't know if the rest of the engine is any good, looks worn and abandoned to me.

It will take me at least another month to do this. I'll take it slow and do it as good as I can. I could afford to do it properly but I'm careful about spending money. I have 3 cars that cost me money, insurance is way too high, etc. I don't want to spend all my money on old cars. I'm saving up the original engine so I can restore that in years when I have a good income.

 

Marco, if you wanna go cheap... get an xj40 and put in the AJ6 engine. You are totally spending money on scrap. Buying another shabby xk engine will do no good at all.

 

Hi XJeej,
You are to be congratulated for your determination in the face of great odds stacked against you. Like others here, I do NOT want to rain on your parade, but let's face facts

• both of those crankshafts are dead; they are ex-crankshafts; they are not just asleep - they are deceased;
• if the cylinder bores are, as I suspect, also damaged by saving money through not using any oil, you are fighting a losing battle;
• taken together, no amount of Teflon, Slick 50, Sgt Pepper's magic Cure-All, or anything else will solve these problems;
• surely you don't need anything other than comparison with Lagonia's pics to show what your cranks should look like;
• interesting that you describe the car from which original engine came as a "rusted XJ that may become a donor car".

This is not a course of action that will lead to an economical and reliable car. IMHO, I suggest it is time to cut your losses and think again. This may sound painful, but for us to paint you a less than honest picture does you no service whatsoever.

Best wishes,

Ken

 

Life has a lot of mysteries. Are we alone? Is there a heaven and hell? Whose advice do I take?

The person who gave me advice and saw the crankshaft in person, not from my pictures, has a lot of experience rebuilding XK engines. Has driven 200.000 miles with a engine he built, and 20.000 miles with the xk120. (And I'm very jealous of that haha)

The person who gave me the new engine said the crankshaft is bad and mine would have to go in. He, too, has very good knowledge of the XK inside and out.

Everyone here says it can't be done.

Wilfred, with all respect for your project, but I don't want my Jag to be a every day car. My Jaguar would be too modern and I'm affraid my car would not be the same without the legendary XK. Every now and then I like to drive my Jag and then return to my boring, reliable and cheap Mercedes. If I would drive it every day I would get used to it and it would not be special anymore.

Thank you all for the replies. I've had great advice. I don't know where I would be without all the people helping me.

One question remains:
Is it a good idea to open the sludge drains in my crankshaft?

Will report back when anything happens.

 

Mine gets driven almost every day, often several times a day. After 2+ years I still get that special feeling every time I drive it.

I too am facing a possible engine rebuild once I pull the head off it next week to see what surprises await me. If anything looks like it is passed its use by date it will be fixed.
A full rebuild is not really in my budget, but if that is what I have to do it will be done. I can even less afford to strip it and buy parts twice.
Being my daily driver it has to be right or I will be stuck driving that late model Jeep with all the comforts you could ask for. Who in their right mind would want that when you have an XJ that screams out "drive me" every time you walk past it.

 

slow down,think about what you are doing, and use common sense, on what is acceptable and what may/could give future problems.
1st ALL engine lose some oil pressure when up to running temperatures.

10 psi at idle is ok, at 2000rpm 35-40 is ok. at 180* F

and i say YES open the sludge drains, most important is make sure they are pulgged tight when installed, (many opinions about them) and how they are replugged! best are threaded and plugged.

engine oil lubrication system is like a human body, you want constant flowing at all times, NO CLOTTING!!

can you measure the crankshaft (with accurate gage) many old cranks have been reused , some fine polishing with tape polishing cloth, would be fine , JUST USE your head and follow the many engine rebuild sites, on the net.

the pix look to me reusable with some light polishing, but internet diagnosis is far from reliable!

OK all this said, remember you are NOT building a Formula 1 engine, it only has to go along the streets and roads!

 

Hi again XJeej,

At no time did I say "it can't be done". My advice was built on "why bother?" or perhaps "I could not AFFORD your approach and you sound to be on a far tighter budget than I allow for my DIY projects".

Take another look at my avatar . . . tired old 2.4L pulling a caravan, right? Wrong! Fire-breathing rocketship which, with 120,000 miles up, had shaft journals and big ends as pristine as Laconia's pics. When miked at the local Small Arms Factory, it was found to be all within Jaguars "as delivered" specs except for ovality on the crank big ends that in no case exceeded half a thousandth of an inch (.0005"). With that original crank and new std bearings, I clocked another 200,000+ miles - and that was 45 years ago!

Either of your cranks appear reusable - provided you can get .030" undersized bearings (and I bet you can't) - or you pay to have all pins heat stress relieved, precision micro-layer welded and then reground to factory spec for std bearings, finally micro-lapped and possibly nitrided. Expect a bill around twice what your entire car is worth.

I respect the compromises ronbros has proposed but, by the time you have attacked the journals with sandpaper, emery cloth and whatever else to try to even out the scoring and what appears to be rust pitting, my prediction is you will be lucky if you can hold 10psi at any revs and temp.

Again, why bother? You sound a resourceful and enthusiastic chap who, despite the need to fix this for nothing (good luck) would achieve a far more reliable and economical solution by chasing up a decent replacement engine. Rather than looking under the bonnet of the worst wreck in the yard, haggle for the "short" engine out of a better standard of donor. Choose wisely and all the induction, exhaust side and other peripherals from your dead engines will bolt over onto the replacement unit.

Over to you,

Ken

 

I understand you don't want an AJ6 engine. That would be the only 'cheap' option in my opinion.

If you want to have an XK, do it well. Don't use the worn engines you have, these are no good. You say there is no crack between the bores but take out the cilinder lining and I bet you will find one.

Look for a series 3 donor with good running engine is my suggestion. These are readily available in the netherlands. Don't buy another old engine, that is a waste of money. And throw away the engines you have. These are dead and cannot be revived without spending serious amounts of money.

Oh and to answer your question: We're not alone...

 

Apropos the sludge traps, I was advised in the late 80s, by a chap who spent his whole week rebuilding XK engines, that clearing out the sludge traps was one of the best things I could do to ensure my engine lasted. I was doing a full rebuild around an uncracked 7L block, (the existing 8L block was cracked). I found the traps almost full with not much of a passage through to the bearings. This kind chap removed the plugs for me, and I inserted new plugs and staked them in. My engine was OK afterwards, but, of course, I'll never know if it would have been OK without doing this, I just took what I thought was good advice, as was that for cleaning out the coolant jacket. I removed all the core plugs and flushed out the block, the crud mostly accumulates at the rear end as that is where coolant flow is least. Again, I replaced all the long studs with new ones, as these also corrrode badly as they sit in the coolant. The only mistake I made, through ignorance, was putting back the old head, because I didn't realise at the time that it had been overskimmed in the past, and I used to get pinking until I backed off the ignition advance.

Basically, you can do a lot or a little, but I always think it's best to do as much as you can afford to without going OTT. For instance you can probably get away with just deglazing the bores and putting new piston rings on; the engine will run OK, but may burn a bit of oil. If you're putting in new crank bearings, it is pointless to do so without grinding the crankshaft, and also putting in a new rear seal.

 

The smart thing to do would be to get a donor with a good engine. I'm making a list with parts I will need to put my engine back together and it will be around €1000. The gaskets cost ~€250,- Oil seals cost €250,- Bearrings cost €80,- Oil engine/transmission and other products ~€200 and I'm still looking for a cilinder head.

Why do I want to rebuild this thing? I don't know why I feel like sticking to my original plan. Shame it has to be like this. Money is always the issue, I would have done it perfect if I could afford to leak thousands.

Will keep the engines. In fifty years imagine how rare these engine will be, with the big ''Jaguar'' badge. Does that sound crazy enough to be genius?

I know a good engine with low mileage for €250. I guess I'll call and see if I can get that.

 

Good onyer XJeej,

I sensed you were a smart fella. I too have been full of energy, full of enthusiasm, and slowly, I added experience and I hope, some carefully accumulated wisdom.

You are absolutely right not to chuck it all overboard and give up in disgust. One of the reasons I, and I suspect others, kept coming back to watch the progress of your thinking, was the knowledge that what started as a tale of 2 crankshafts, and poor ones at that, were merely the doorway to potentially far greater expense around the block, conrods, bearings, then the head, cams. valve gear . . . on and on goes the expense to resurrect a dead engine..

The key to average income people affording these classics is DIY. Either learn (as you are doing) or walk away. Sounds cruel, but true.

Here is the pledge we can make once you can get hold of that decent engine. These forums are full of people and other resources - all ready to share their knowledge and skills to support and guide you.

Best wishes,

Ken

 

I totally agree with you Ken, I have learnt so much from the forums and it's members. I may have given up on this car early on without that wealth of knowledge and such indepth info from members.

 

I'll be honest with you. Buy a relatively cheap donor car or just the engine and make sure you test compression and hear it running. Should cost about 300 euro maximum.

That will be the only way you get your jaguar driving again in the next decade.

Why do I say this: I first got to know you through the dutch jaguar forum in 2013. You bought an xj12 and put it away to rot in your shed. You didn't improve that car in any way, you just put it away. Then you bought an xj6. Drove it home and also that car does not drive anymore. You spend quite some money on the head just to find out the block is scrap. Then you bought extra engines which are no good at all. In additon there is the Mercedes which was a daily driver but which also faded away under your supervision. You are just not keeping up your stuff, let alone repairing it.

To make the story short: You are good at buying stuff. Not so much at fixing things. Therefore, just buy another engine and don't waste time and money on your current engines.

I don't mean to be rude, I am just trying to talk some sense into you. I apologize if you feel offended. That is sincerely not my intention.

EDIT: Of course you can learn anything, and I really support that. But don't start on jobs like this engine. You say you don't have money, and it is just difficult to fix engines cheap as it involves specialists and specific tools.

 

Having been a mechanic for many years (now retired) I can offer to you, messing with a crankshaft on your own is a waste of time and money.
I would suggest taking the crank to a professional machine service and have it properly checked and prepared.
Since you have the motor that far down, why not take your reciprocating components to a performance machine shop and have them balanced. That would include balancer and flexplate/flywheel.
As far as an undersized crank, I have always tried to stay no further than 10 under on the journals.
Good luck on your project, please keep us posted with plenty of pics and details.

 

I had no tools, no experience and a very tight budget. This car is still here waiting for the right time and you know I have the intention to fix the car, I just don't want to do it here.

I spent money on the head because I could not have known the block was bad. I found the scrapings the second time I took the head off. If those scrapings weren't there I would have switched the exhaust valve for one from my spare cilinder head and I would be on the road again.

But that isn't the case. My engine had to be replaced and Han gave me the second engine with brand new pistons, just no good crankshaft. It would have been easy if my crankshaft wasn't ALSO bad. That brings us here. It's not my fault after all this I'm still stuck with trash. I did the best I could, but the best wasn't good enough. After all I did learn from this a lesson I will never forget: Meten = weten.

The XJ6 not driving anymore is not my fault.

It hasn't faded away, it's still in the same spot where I parked it just before I cut up the rear arches. It's a job I take my time for because I want to do it properly. The panels are first cut with centimeters to spare. From there it's all hand tools. The left side fit's almost perfectly after 10 hours of scraping off metal from the edges and bending. The right side is done inbetween welding of the left side.

And, because the right front fender was very bad aswell I decided to take both off. I scraped a lot of undercoating and found some spots, treated them, then put a new layer of undercoating.

I take my time for this. I don't need the car, it's not like I ruïned it and don't know how to put it back together and it's not abandoned either.

I haven't done anything with my cars other than repairing them for the past month or two. There is only so much you can do when it's freezing. In the summer I'll probably work a lot more.

We live very close and I know this is not an attack. A lot of people here just say what they think. Some people appreciate it, others don't. I'll hang it on my wall because it motivates me to prove you wrong. Same goes for Ko, he made a fool out of me but thankfully got banned for it. When the XJ12 is done I REALLY want to hear what he has to say. Probably nothing.

Will get the 80.000km engine because it's the cheaper and better choice, not because I can't fix what's on my workbench right now. I made a deal with someone who wants to buy one engine for decoration, so it will just cost me to take out that good engine and bring it back home.

So, thank you. I appreciate your input and intention to help me out. If all goes according to plan I'll be on the road again soon.