XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Fuel Odor In Trunk and Marine-spec Fuel Hose

 
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:51 PM
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Default Fuel Odor In Trunk and Marine-spec Fuel Hose

Fuel odors in the trunk are not unusual on these cars....and the XJS as well. My '85 has had a 'trace' odor; not pungent...but still, its there. I finally decided to have a whirl at repairing it. I'll mention right up front that I replaced all the fuel hoses a few years ago....using Dayco fuel injection hose, automotive grade, from the local parts store.

It's beginning to look like that was the problem.

Using my high-tech sniffer (that is, my nose) I easily determined that the vent hoses going to-and-from the condensation canisters were odor free. The odor was definitely coming from the area of the supply hoses under the trunk floor.

I had heard of "low permeability" fuel hose for marine applications, did some Googling, and came across "SAE J1527 Barrier Hose". This standard has several rating levels. I went with A1-15 and A1-10 hose. "Ultra Low" permeability (the "10" and "15") and high fire resistance (the "A1"). It is rated for a working pressure of 100 psi and burst pressure of 400 psi. The idea is to keep the boat bilge as vapor-free as possible. You can Google for more technical info.

I noticed right away that the hose is obviously thicker-walled than automotive hose, due, presumably, to the additional barrier layers. I also vaguely recall the the original Jaguar hose was thick-walled as well, although the J1527 didn't exist in the 80s.

Anyhow, I installed it 3 days ago and am fairly confident that the problem is solved. No odor so far. A few more days with the trunk lid closed will be the real test. As I mentioned, the odor was slight, so I'm giving it a few days to see (or should I say "smell"?) if any odor develops over time.

I'll also mention that I'm not implying that the Dayco F.I. hose was defective in any way. It's just that it is designed to a different standard, without "ultra-low permeability" in mind.

I used Trident brand but other manufacturers have their own offerings meeting the same standard.

Cheers
DD
 

Last edited by Doug; 05-24-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:27 PM
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Good idea. Did you get it at a boat repair facility? Big difference between a windy under hood or under the car environment and an enclosed boot. Look forward to hearing the verdict.
 
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:35 PM
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i use marine grade filler hose on my motor home ,, but like said it out in open moving air!

but just may try some on the jag fill pipe, .can see it at top of tank from cap to tank inlet!
 
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Yellow series3 View Post
Good idea. Did you get it at a boat repair facility?
Ebay.

But I suspect the local marine supply, if you have one, carries the stuff. It's not exotic.


Big difference between a windy under hood or under the car environment and an enclosed boot. Look forward to hearing the verdict.
Exactly.

In a small confined area with no ventilation the tiniest seepage can create a very big smell. Since I had only a light odor I presumed (ha ha) that I was getting some permeation...something akin to osmosis, I reckon, but I'm no scientist.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ronbros View Post

but just may try some on the jag fill pipe, .can see it at top of tank from cap to tank inlet!

It's out there and part of the J1527 standards. It'll be "A2" spec hose. However, since filler hose it not intended to carry fuel at all times it carries a different rating and doesn't have to be as resistant to permeation.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:11 PM
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Well done Doug.

I thought as I read, and I cannot think of any "normal" cars that have fuel hoses inside the boot area at all. Most have the tank under the car, and internal pumps etc etc, so the fuel hose situation we Jaguar owners have is rare.

My latest pair have nylon fuel line, and quick connectors, and NO hoses that I have seen so far.
 
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post

I thought as I read, and I cannot think of any "normal" cars that have fuel hoses inside the boot area at all.
Funny you should mention that. As I was working on the hoses i was wondering the same thing. Off-hand couldn't think of any other cars with internal fuel plumbing other than the Jags.

Most have the tank under the car, and internal pumps etc etc, so the fuel hose situation we Jaguar owners have is rare.

I was also thinking that, if a person had lots of time and ambition, all the plumbing could be relocated to an external area.

I'm not that person

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:45 AM
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even a drop of fuel can smell for a while. Since the fuel system is under certain pressure, leakage is always the problem.

Not to mention there are a lot of vent flaps at the rear bulkhead / firewall ( behind the rear seat's Back ), and a large vent at the rear parcel shelf center, through which fuel odor can and does filter through to the cabin.

These vent flaps have a sheet of headliner fabric glued to them to prevent noise and to make a positive seal. But after years the fabric falls off and the flaps don't seal anymore.

the two round holes on the spare tire compartment floor are there to vent any fuel vapor or odor. If you remove the side upholstery panels in the trunk, you will find other holes too.

all these holes need to be inspected and resealed after 30 years.

I completely disassembled the trunk in my car, correcting all the flaps and resealed all the holes that were covered by dried out factory duct tape.
 
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jose View Post
even a drop of fuel can smell for a while. Since the fuel system is under certain pressure, leakage is always the problem.

Not to mention there are a lot of vent flaps at the rear bulkhead / firewall ( behind the rear seat's Back ), and a large vent at the rear parcel shelf center, through which fuel odor can and does filter through to the cabin.

Fortunately for me there are no odors in the cabin!



the two round holes on the spare tire compartment floor are there to vent any fuel vapor or odor.

A nice gesture on Jaguar's part, but not effective.

On the underside of the boot floor the holes have little rear-facing scoops that would serve to pull the gasoline vapors out as the car moves along and air passes underneath. They probably would be effective if there was a supply of fresh, incoming air....but the trunk is very well sealed, eliminating any 'flow-thru" effect.

It makes me wonder if the holes were actually intended as drains....in the event of a hose failure or such?


If you remove the side upholstery panels in the trunk, you will find other holes too.

all these holes need to be inspected and resealed after 30 years.
Right ! Been there, done that! This seals the trunk compartment from dirt, water, fumes from the tanks.

But now I'm wondering if a fresh air supply would be beneficial?

Oh well, all just musing at this point. If the new hoses solve the problem I'm not interesting in re-engineering !

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:20 AM
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I don't think there is any fresh air supply to the trunk or spare tire compartment. The idea is good though. Motorhomes have screened vents that capture air from outside for the purpose of venting the generator compartment. A good place for a pair of motorhome screened vents would be the existing but sealed holes at the inner wall of the spare tire compartment, those holes are large and are supposed to allow access to the rear brake calipers??

the floor holes in the spare tire compartment are both vents and drains. As you know, there is a hose from the antenna motor routed to the left side hole. Those holes are also open doors for insects and rodents to get in. I sealed mine with removable vented plugs so only the smallest creatures can get in, like ants. I haven't had any secondary or after-effects by plugging them.


 
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:39 AM
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Aye, at times I detect an odor in the boot of my car. But, I conclude that it offers no danger. So, no hose swap process. Added to that is that all works there. "don't fix what don't need fixin'

However, a few years ago, I noted the ports under the rear valence were squished closed!!! Turned out the fix was easy!!! My large "once a flat blade driver turned pry bar" levered the opening back to it's proper shape. No loss of paint either!!!

In theory, I think, one might add a vertical barrier under the opening. In theory to add a vacuum and aid extraction ??? but, that is as far as I'll go, think....

Wrestling with my HF Delta knock off band saw. either the blade is bound and will not turn or the blade is tossed off the wheels, I fixed that once, but forgot how!!!! A matter of guides, and wheel alignment and tension!!! I thought the capicitors in the motor had gone. Nope, freed of load it turns perfectly.. An absolute test, no....

Carl
 
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:38 PM
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I know what you mean. After a certain number of birthdays I remember that I have fixed something but can't remember how.
 
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:58 AM
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happens to me too, then I have to reverse-engineer what I had reversed-engineered.
 
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Old 05-26-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Ebay.

But I suspect the local marine supply, if you have one, carries the stuff. It's not exotic.




Exactly.

In a small confined area with no ventilation the tiniest seepage can create a very big smell. Since I had only a light odor I presumed (ha ha) that I was getting some permeation...something akin to osmosis, I reckon, but I'm no scientist.

Cheers
DD

Exotic price also, like double/triple auto parts store!
ron
 
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:10 AM
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Jose,
Please tell me more about those caliper access panels. Can you access the handbrake through them or just the brake pads? My SIII E-Type had access panels but they accessed the front of the calipers.
 
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:49 AM
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Iramphal
those holes are in the XJ-6, I don't know about the E type, but my '65 S type has them too. The design of the 1963-1968 S type is almost identical to the XJ. Or maybe it is the other way around.

in the XJ-6, if you look in the spare tire compartment, at the inner vertical wall, where the fuel filter is, there are two large round holes sealed at the factory with round plugs.

supposedly they are to access the rear brakes. I don't know because I have never removed the plugs. The holes are large enough to put your hand through them.



 

Last edited by Jose; 05-27-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by iramphal View Post
Jose,
Please tell me more about those caliper access panels. Can you access the handbrake through them or just the brake pads? My SIII E-Type had access panels but they accessed the front of the calipers.

Yeah, these holes are on the wrong side of the cage. Plus, as I recall, there a heat insulator panel riveted to the body on the other side of the wall.

if you remove the tie-plate at the bottom f the cage the handbrake calipers can be removed by sort of rolling them rearwards and then downwards, thru the bottom of the cage. A little tricky, but doable

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:55 AM
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Thanks Jose and Doug, Seems I will be on my back on cold concrete again for the calipers.
 
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by iramphal View Post
Thanks Jose and Doug, Seems I will be on my back on cold concrete again for the calipers.
Go to an appliance store and get a refrigerator box, or dishwasher box or... you get the idea.
Open up the cardboard, cut off a sufficient chunk, put that under the car to lay on.
You'll not be in contact with Cold Concrete ever again.
(';')
 
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:16 AM
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I raised my car on concrete blocks under each tire, then moved around on a trolley on my back. Bleeding the rear callipers was not difficult at all.
 

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