XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Fuel tank leaking

 
  #1  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:15 PM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aurora, Oregon
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Fuel tank leaking

Just bought a 1987 XJ6. The driver side fuel tank leaks. Any ideas for a quick fix.

Thanks,
Dave
 
  #2  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:36 PM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default

hi,

no quick fix without finding out where the leak is. You need to remove the quarter panel which is attached by 11mm (7/16) nuts and bolts located behind the bumper, and the posi-drive screws located at the bottom arch of the panel. (not phillips screws!).

question: do you have any pressure buildup and release when you open the filler caps?

you will have to remove the chrome bumper section as well, and chances are that one stud will break, you will find out which one, so start soaking all the bolts and nuts and screws with rust-buster penetrating oil.

Then you can see the entire tank and the tank seams. If it is leaking at the bottom drain bolt, then all you need is a new seal/gasket.

If leak is evident at the Seams, call David at Everyday XJ for a replacement tank.
Removing the old tank is another lesson.

If you just bought the car, they are easy to work on, but you need the Factory Shop and Parts Manual. Best $ you'll ever spend.

here's three places to order it:

http:www.jaggraveyard.com

http://www.lbcarco.com

http://www.jdht.com


Jose
 
  #3  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:51 PM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aurora, Oregon
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Thank you Jose

Thank you Jose, and yes, I do have a pressure build up in that tank.

Dave
 
  #4  
Old 03-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Powell, Ohio U.S.A. 43065
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

"Quick fix", run on the other tank.

Bad fix, put a used tank in it. They corrode from the inside out, the outside in, and the upside down.

Best fix, buy a new tank once you confirm that the old one is leaking, and that's 99% of the time. Spray the tank with foot powder if you don't see the leak, or are not sure of the source point.

There are no metric body fasteners on a Series III XJ6. And the pozidrive screws will likely be best removed with vise grips, as most of them will be siezed when you try to remove the rear lower valance to access the tank.
 
  #5  
Old 03-22-2009, 05:01 AM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default fuel vapor check valve

Dave,

you can remove the pressure buildup problem on both tanks by looking under the front, passenger side fender (wing), for a plastic check valve connected between 2 hoses, each hose is of a different diameter. The check valve is mounted horizontally (left-to-right) on the inner fender wall, just before one of the hoses connects to the Charcoal Canister. (big container mounted behind the headlamp, in front of the tire). It would be best if you remove the right front tire.

Remove this valve and insert a 1/8" drill bit into it, pushing it and then pulling it through the opposite side. This will eliminate the vapor/pressure buildup once and for all. Reconnect the valve where it was.

Fill the tank in question and see if you still have a leak.

Jose
 
  #6  
Old 03-22-2009, 11:13 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Powell, Ohio U.S.A. 43065
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

That's a two PSI check valve if memory serves, the tanks are supposed to have residual pressure from the vapor, and the only time it is necessary to ruin the valve is if it should become stuck closed. In that event, the tanks can split from the pressure. If a tank is leaking, eliminating the residual pressure wo't magically stop it. The best that attempt will do is to slow a leak from a pinhole caused by corrosion, and it won't help for long.
 
  #7  
Old 03-22-2009, 02:50 PM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default

I agree with you Jag Tech Ohio.

if the expansion and contraction is eliminated, this serves to see of the leaking happens when the tank is being expanded by pressure buildup, typical problem in these Series 3,
twin-tank cars. That's why he needs to fill the tank after bypassing the check valve.

If he does not want to ruin the check valve, which really does not work anyway, new or used, he can simply remove it and leave the hoses open to atmosphere, (not a good idea), but he can go to an auto parts store and buy a hose-to-hose plastic splicer/connector, the kind that accepts hoses of different diameters. $ .99 investment.

Let's face it, that check valve never worked, XJ owners remove them, bypass them, eliminate them, and by doing so, the pressure buildup is eliminated at the tanks. There is no negative after-effect to the fuel injection system.

BTW, that check valve is made by GM/Delco.

Jose
 
  #8  
Old 03-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 641
Received 183 Likes on 99 Posts
Default

"Bad fix, put a used tank in it. They corrode from the inside out, the outside in, and the upside down.
Best fix, buy a new tank once you confirm that the old one is leaking"

Little more food for thought.....
New tanks will run between $350 - $600, depending on core charges, etc.
Used tanks run around $50.
Fuel tank repair kits from Eastwood are another $50.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT

All of us are running on tanks that have some rust issues. Couple that with excess pressure, and you are waiting for a leak. But to suggest a new tank may not be cost effective or necessary.
The Eastwood kits, or POR15 tank kits, will seal minor pinholes, and stop the rusting issues. So if your tank isn't too bad, you could be out for as little as a couple hours working on your tank, and $50.
If it's too far gone, pick up a used tank and an Eastwoods kit, and for $100 and a couple hours time you'll be ready to go.

David Boger
EverydayXJ.com
 

Last edited by davidboger; 03-22-2009 at 07:33 PM.
  #9  
Old 03-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Powell, Ohio U.S.A. 43065
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

In that case, at $50 apiece I have about $1000. worth of used tanks to sell you. Where I live , new ones would fail anywhere after the car was six years old: when a good used tank would last a few years, it was a good solution for both my customers and myself. Now that there are only ancient mariners to choose from, I won't sell them because they won't last. Stop by anytime and pick up as many as you want.
 
  #10  
Old 03-22-2009, 09:18 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 641
Received 183 Likes on 99 Posts
Default

Wow, sounds like you should have crushed them while the prices was up on scrap metal last year .... maybe cleaned up the garage a bit :-)
Or at least tried a different tank sealant.

Maybe our friend from Oregon will have better luck, since he won't have to deal with all the salty roads of Ohio. Then again, if the tanks fall apart in 6 years, I can't imagine what the rest of the car would look like. Maybe cheaper to take the whole thing to the crusher??

David
 
  #11  
Old 03-23-2009, 01:26 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Powell, Ohio U.S.A. 43065
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

The rust is what kills the Series III cars here, it's worse in the Great Lakes area and upper N.Y. state from what I have seen. Pouring (or PORing) something onto a porous steel tank to temporarily seal a leak is not the kind of repair attempt you make on a customer's car, period. When the day comes that no new tanks are available, I'll look into having them soldered, leak tested, and then coated as the only viable solution. So I keep cores for everything. I haven't run into the situation yet myself, but I believe that some of the XJS fuel tank variants (factory, not just H&E) are not available new from any source. That's when I'll have something to try to fix. Otherwise I'll continue to consider the issue of used fuel tanks as an invitation to a comeback, and a potential safety hazard that I won't be responsible for.
 
  #12  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:16 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 641
Received 183 Likes on 99 Posts
Default

Andrew

I know what you mean about the cars from your area. The one I'm breaking now came from Ohio, advertised as having a little rust, and practically fell apart while loading it on the trailer.
My first 87 came from NY, and was a similar story.
Luckily our cars in NC are usually pretty clean, so I've been lucky.

The idea of renewing tanks is definetly a consideration of most of the DIY car owners. Especially now that times have gotten a little tighter.
But I'll take it a step further...
I don't think that I would consider installing a new tank without sealing both the inside and outside first, instead of simply painting the outside. Reason for saying that is that I have removed "newish" aftermarket tanks that were installed practically bare metal, and didn't last long at all.

I totally understand your reasoning in not using remanufactured or restored tanks, as a mechanic you have too much liability if something would fail. But a guess as to cost for a new tank, plus shop labour, is probably around $650. Another guess is that he may not have paid a whole lot more than that for the car. So if he is socked for too many $650 bills up front, it may end up a case of another Jaguar headed to the scrap yard.
So I think both ideas have their merits. For a cost effective fix, that is used by car restoration folks who don't have the option of snapping up a new part, try a tank sealant. Remember, it's the same process used by these guys http://www.gastankrenu.com/index.htm Just in a DIY application.
But if money is no object to you, you may need to consider a new (read aftermarket) tank, installed by a pro, for about 6x the cost.

David
EverydayXJ.com
 

Last edited by davidboger; 03-23-2009 at 08:19 AM. Reason: mispelled word(s)
  #13  
Old 03-23-2009, 09:26 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Powell, Ohio U.S.A. 43065
Posts: 2,521
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 47 Posts
Default

The Renu authorized service center in Ravenna, Ohio quoted me $325-$350 per tank (my cost) to refurbish my tanks. It's ben a long time since I sourced a new one, as most of my work is on later model Jaguars... but I can probably buy new tanks for close to that number. So I'll leave my stack of old ones in the storage garage, unless you want to come buy a bunch and put your name on them. Or if you can sandblast, leak repair, pressure test and coat tanks for alot less than that, and warranty them for two years, I'll send you a few pairs to knock out.
 
  #14  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:34 AM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default

the funny thing in all of this is that my '65 Jaguar S type has stainless steel tanks, and if they are not stainless steel, they are made of something that doesn't rust. They look shiny inside, and outside they are coated with something like thick oil-based rustproofing, still there after 43 years. The tanks are unvented, and neither tank leaks. same concept as the XJ tanks, but no leaks, no check valve, no charcoal canister, no solenoid, no vapor recovery, no expansion or contraction. Proof that 'advancements' in technology are not always what they seem.

Is that funny or what?
 
  #15  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default

Motorcars Ltd. reconditions XJ fuel tanks for a fraction of the cost of a new tank.

If we can get Ken to tell us what the price is per tank or for the service, case is solved.

here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/cdbfc7
 
  #16  
Old 03-23-2009, 11:07 AM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: this is not important
Posts: 96
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Jose,

Quick question for ya. On my '85 xj6 I got the left tank to stop leaking(bearings in the fuel line...wow). Now a problem I am having is excess pressure in the tanks..both of them. I rigged up a pressure gauge over the filler cap to measure the buildup overnight. Just sitting overnight the pressure can reach 6psi in the left & 7psi in the right. I am not sure what it is after two days but it is enough for the fuel to creep past the filler flap & mist my hands when I open the cap.(Mind you I can go down in the morning without starting, turning on the pump or anything & it can do this)
I read a while ago about the 2psi valve, but I do not have a US/Canada spec car. I have no emissions, 02 sensor or nothing. I cannot firgure out how these tanks are vented..I am sure that they have to be.
I havent asked on "other" jag forums yet

I figured since this thread was up I would ask.

TIA,
Tom
 
  #17  
Old 03-23-2009, 07:17 PM
Jose's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,826
Received 1,338 Likes on 1,088 Posts
Default

hi Tom,

is your car Left Hand Drive?

do you hear the tanks coming back to shape after you open the filler cap and the pressure escapes?

if yes, have you looked carefully in the passenger's side front inner wheel well?

Do you see a large black canister in front of the tire and right behind the headlamp bucket?
(if yes, that is a charcoal Canister).

If you have a charcoal canister, you might have the Check Valve preceeding it. The plastic check valve looks like a little canister, one side connects to a hose from the tanks, the other connects through a hose to the charcoal canister.

If you see that check valve, (it is usually mounted to the wall behind the tire, so raising the car helps see it). Remove it or push a 1/8" drill bit through it, pulling it the opposite side. That will eliminate the vapor pressure buildup.

Jose
 
  #18  
Old 03-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 641
Received 183 Likes on 99 Posts
Default

Tom

I have an 85 XJ6 Sovereign here that was brought over from Germany with it's previous owner.
A quick check revealed no emissions stuff, as on the US Federal cars (no surprise). But it does have the vapour pipes in the C posts that exit into the boot, and then into the area around the rear suspension. I haven't had a chance to trace it further, but know there isn't a charcoal can on the car.
So, a suggestion would be to trace the lines going from the vapour cans into the boot. There may be an obstuction in the vapour cans, or the lines that run forward.
You could also disconnect the lines were they come into the boot from the rear shelf, and go for a short drive, to see if you still have a buildup in the tank. If so, the vapour cans are suspect, if not you know the lines forward are corroded, crushed, or otherwise blocked.

I'll also trace mine forward to see how they end, just out of curiosity.

Just FYI, this one has the same color ID tag as the photo you had on Jag Lovers (if it wasn't you who posted it- sorry).

David
 
  #19  
Old 03-23-2009, 07:55 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 641
Received 183 Likes on 99 Posts
Default

Jose

Thanks for the info from Motorcars. The link that you posted says the cost for the reconditioned tanks is $358 for the Series 3. Sounds like the going rate...

Andrew,

Please understand that I'm not saying you are incorrect in saying that a new tank is an answer that is out of the question. I think most people know that new ones are available. But his question was about altneratives to get it going again.
Personally, I think I'd rather have a recondtioned tank for $358 than a new one for the same price, simply because it is sealed on both sides that keeps the metal from rusting because it is completely incapsulated.

And as a DIYer, I'd strongly consider an option that I could do myself for under $100. If it lasts a week, I'm not out that much. If it lasts a year, great. I could do it 4 more times for the cost of a new one. But it may last longer .... if Renu can guarantee it for life than that sealant must be pretty good. I do know for a fact the sealant is as hard (or harder) than a rock when it sets up.

So those are the alternatives the man asked about... maybe not good for a mechanic not working on his own cars, but certianly an alternative for the home mechanic. (No sandblasting required on the kits, BTW)

Maybe we beat this horse to death.... a simple answer is there is nothing you can do besides remove the tank if it is leaking, and make a decsion on whether you'd like to repair it, buy a used one, or buy a new one. In either case, I don't think I'd install it without sealing it. There isn't anything that you can simply pour in the tank and seal it in place on the car.

I don't think I need a bunch of rusted out tanks when I have several clean NC parts cars with solid parts already -- thanks for the offer(s).

David
EverydayXJ.com
 
  #20  
Old 03-23-2009, 09:38 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: this is not important
Posts: 96
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Yeah, Dave I do post on Jag Lovers(different screen name now.. not 85xj6).
Yup, no emissions stuff at all. No charcoal canister, etc..
So vapor cans you say? Hummm. No idea where they would be. But I will try & find them tomorrow. I have noticed a bad fuel smell in the trunk, but just wrote that off as all the fuel I spilled when fixing the fuel lines. Nothing is leaking under the car though.
I cannot take the "the cat for a walk" because she sick so I am giving her rest & medcation.

Thanks for the info.
Originally Posted by davidboger View Post
Tom

I have an 85 XJ6 Sovereign here that was brought over from Germany with it's previous owner.
A quick check revealed no emissions stuff, as on the US Federal cars (no surprise). But it does have the vapour pipes in the C posts that exit into the boot, and then into the area around the rear suspension. I haven't had a chance to trace it further, but know there isn't a charcoal can on the car.
So, a suggestion would be to trace the lines going from the vapour cans into the boot. There may be an obstuction in the vapour cans, or the lines that run forward.
You could also disconnect the lines were they come into the boot from the rear shelf, and go for a short drive, to see if you still have a buildup in the tank. If so, the vapour cans are suspect, if not you know the lines forward are corroded, crushed, or otherwise blocked.

I'll also trace mine forward to see how they end, just out of curiosity.

Just FYI, this one has the same color ID tag as the photo you had on Jag Lovers (if it wasn't you who posted it- sorry).

David
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Fuel tank leaking


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: