Hi I'm new to the group. I'm in Australia and looking at a few different XJ6 series 3 cars for sale (also Mark X/420G but that's another matter).

My intent is to build/modify an XJ6 to be a Grand Touring Sleeper (GTS) in the truest sense of the phrase. Not quite a Pro Tourer, although as long as the vehicle looked stock standard that would work as well, but the best of old world style and new technology. I want to build/modify a car to look standard but have excellent handling and braking. I know Jaguars, for their time, already had these attributes but I would like to bring the classic XJ6 into the 21st century while retaining standard looks and creatures comforts as much as possible.

I am after advice on resources (books, websites, suppliers, etc etc etc) that will enable me to build/modify the car I eventually buy to fulfil this dream. I appreciate all advice and suggestions given. I'll post questions and progress reports as I work through the project.

I have looked at 1 vehicle that I am seriously interested in, it is a Series 3 Daimlar VDP. The vehicle has a couple of issues that, if I purchase it, need to be sorted quickly to stop further, serious, deterioration.
1st issue: door seal rubbers are totally shot so I want to be able to get a full set (doors, boot, windows, etc etc etc) rubbers to ensure the vehicle is ok. The car has been flooded, which wrecked the carpet and underlay, and I suspect the water got in through the door seals.
2nd issue: rust, not out of control but needs sorting quickly. Does anyone sell rust repair patch panels? I'm asking just in case the rust is worse than what I could detect. I don't believe it needs patch panels but just in case the bottom of the doors, sill panels, around front and rear screens, bottom rear of front guards where badges have been, are the areas that have detectable rust (bubbles). Floor pan needs a good clean but is ok if I catch it quickly.

All help and relevant advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Michael

 

Michael,
My personal advise would be to run away from this car quickly. I would never, knowingly, buy any car that had been flooded, and this statement increases exponentially considering all the areas you've mentioned where rust is evident. Rust is always worse than it looks---always!

Building something as you suggest is hard work and almost always expensive, if done right. If you haven't already, read through my build and get an idea of some of the procedures involved. But start with a car body that is as clean and rust-free as you can possibly find, it will be worth it. Good luck, we'll look forward to your progress.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...j6-lt1-211881/

Dave

 

some useful sites for parts (these are in VIC, your profile doesnt say where you are)

Jagdaim https://www.jagdaim.com/

Prestige Spares Jaguar Spare Parts Supplier - Jag Prestige Spares- H/H Prestige Spares - Australia's Largest Independant - Used Land Rover Discovery Spare Parts

Also in the US , everyday XJ https://shop.everydayxj.com/

have used all three and found easy to deal with

 

Tend to agree with Dave , but as I am not much of a body work guy I usually refrain from showing my bias :-) there is also the delightful combination of water and aged Lucas electrics to consider, unless a full rewire was in the program. I wouldnt rush in to buying a car, they come on the market regularly and it isnt hard to find a non rust plagued one. Here without salted roads you should be able to find one with only the traditional (mandatory) rust spots around the window openings.

 

If there is rust, once you get into fixing it, you will find there is LOADS more you could not see. A rust free body is essential unless you are a gifted panel maker and body prep specialist.

 

Right !

But a truly rust free Series III is a very rare thing indeed. Even 20 years ago. Increasingly so as the decades roll by. If you find one today it's likely to be a very pampered gem that you'd hate to modify in any way.

Even the aforementioned windscreen rust, a very common thing, can end up being expensive to fix.

In fact I find myself on the horns of a dilemma with my own daily driver Series III. It's rusting in several areas. And it isn't worth the cost to repair. And it's a wonderful car that I love driving.....

Cheers
DD

 

Thank you all for your advice. Many people have told me to run away. I do appreciate that rust and British cars is a bad thing and that there is always more than what appears to be there.

@Doug your post hits the nail on the head. In Australia you wont find any car, at all, that is 40 years old and untouched without rust unless it has been kept in an air conditioned garage.

@Greg in France I understand your point.

@yarpos electrics and mechanicals don't concern me, the rust is the only think I have any concerns about. A total rewire is a possibility and I have done a few because I have lived in places where rats love to eat wiring. Thank you for the links to suppliers this is exactly what I need. I have tried to set NSW as my location hopefully it will show up in my profile after this.

@LT1 jaguar thank you for your advice. I'll take a look at your build thread now.

 

Hi, as mentioned the Series I, II, and III XJ's can easily have too expensive to fix rust issues without having been flooded. If you can find a junkyard with any really bad examples just to inspect, I would highly recommend it ( the more stripped down / opened up the better ). That would give you a chance to pull up carpet padding, boot trim etc to see how these cars are constructed. The front inner fenders / wings are a prime example, instead of just one or two pieces of metal there are almost too many to count. All of these seams & joints give water a place to hide & turn the frame into rust ! I would only consider a car with very minor rust around the glass as a starting point for the time & money you plan to invest in it.

Good luck !
Cheers,
Brian

 

Well you are in the right place. Myself and other on this forum have built many cars like this and after years of toil and thousands spent, no regrets. These cars have style and the chassis and suspension is modern enough but need many revisions.

I track my Jag and it's holding up well to much newer cars yet remains quiet and compliant enough to drive everyday, It's magic out on the road and thrilling on the track.

A few things to consider,.
Nothing worth buying is a bolt in. Even the Addco larger front swaybar need lots of massaging to make it fit right. Almost everything else will need to be made.
There are no brake kits, no suspension kits. The chassis will need lots of stiffening. For example as you increase load on the steering system the mount tabs flex so they need to be triangulated, The front frame rails will are just hanging out there like 2 chops sticks, they need triangulation. You will know when you hit the chassis' flex point. Send it into a turn and the hood will pop open. It's things like that which need to be addressed for these cars to really perform and not be a beautiful mess. Study the XJS' chassis differences, jag fixed all the XJ chassis problems with the XJS. The giant lower A pillar and rear buttresses were added to the XJS because they were needed.

Go to you tube and search for 'XJC limerock' and 'XJS limerock' also seach my posts here, I've dont it all with these cars IRL.

 

@icsamerica thank you so much for your input. You will find I'll pick your brains a fair bit.

The car I eventually build, I have not made a decision regarding the car in my OP, will be built for road duties only but race car technology makes its way into road cars so I appreciate your knowledge and input.

In Australia a popular modification is to weld in rectangular hollow section steel, approximately 6-8mm thick, in the sill panels to increase torsional stiffness. I have done this to popular Australian cars (Commodores and Falcons) and it increases chassis stiffness quite well. Understanding that the front end will also need stiffening is this an option for a Series XJ?

 

@icsamerica I just found your XJ6C facebook page. It answers my question above but I'm interested in why you used round tube in the sills and not rectangular. I also find your bracing between the sills and front inner fender interesting.

 

Round gets the job done, thin wall, low weight and it's what Jag did on the XJS convertible. The inner fender support and the X brace forward in the engine compartment made dramatic differences. The sill tube helps but like I mentioned before the front frame rails that support the IFS need support inside and out of the car. They move a lot.

BTW I've need to update the FB page, that coupe has received many more upgrades, Most notable is that it now has a 6.0 LS and a 5 speed Tremec TKX.

You should also check out up my 2017 Coupe here. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2017-a-184891/

I hope you take my ideas and run with them, I only ask for credit and that you not try to pass them off as your own. For example, I've made it clear over the years that I was inspired by FIboy from Finland and the sill tube and rear trailing arm area fix ideas are his.

 

I own a V12 series 3 and like it very much, enough to have taken it through two restorations. However, if I were thinking of making a faster, more sporting XJ, I'd probably not start with a series 3. I'd go for the shorter wheelbase of the earlier cars, probably series 1 or XJC. On a longer wheelbase, I'd start with an X300 or X308. The X300/308 are ace cars, already a good way closer than the series 3 to what you want to achieve and, in the case of the supercharged versions, possibly already there. Of course, the challenge is half the fun. Personally, I'd love to try fitting a centrifugal supercharger to an X300. Whatever you do, good luck with the project.

 

Hi Peter, I don't really like any Jaguars after the Series 3. The XJ40 is the last Jaguar Jag and its appearance doesn't excite me at all. To me after Ford took over the Jaguar aspect of Jag did an Elvis and left the building. I have no doubt they are fine cars but they just don't do anything for me. The short wheel base isn't an option atm as this will be the "family car" and there just isn't enough leg space in the back to be comfortable. The last Jaguar I worked on, 4 years ago, was a Series 1 SWB and I thought to myself the British must have short legs. FYI I have short legs and I was cramped. I do like the XJC and one day may try to find one but it would be a car that only 2 people would be in.

 

I can understand your point of view Michael, the series 3 is a lovely car, but there's still a lot of 1960s in it. And you don't have to believe some of the experts on the internet with their stories that Ford came and said do this and use that. X300 and 308 are 100% genuine Jaguars, design and engineering. However, as I'm working on a similar process of making my Mk2 into a 1960s GT sedan, I understand that the basis of the project has to be what your heart or gut says, not what's easiest!

 

What model Jaguar was based on the Mondeo? Was it the X Type? There is a reason the Mondeo failed in Australia, 3 times they released it and then withdrew it from sale. It was a shocking car that may have suited European autobahns but didn't suit Australian roads.

You know 1960s isn't a bad thing. Jaguar had OHC engines from 1949, Ford was still building flathead V8s in 1954. Jaguar had coil IRS in 1960, Ford and GM were still using solid axle with leaf springs in the 1980s. Jaguar went monocoque with the Mark X, GM was still building full chassis sedans in the 1980s. I'm not looking to build a car that will outrun, out handle, and out brake, a modern V8 Supercar but if it is comfortable, handles and stops really well, I can get some extra power out of the venerable XK engine, and ticks along at a low rpm at highway speed I'll be ecstatic. My ultimate goal would be to do a very similar thing to a Mark X/420G but finding a good vehicle to start with is extremely difficult.

 

The X-type was based on the Ford Mondeo. I really didn't like it when it was current. In retrospect, it was far less Ford than an Audi is VW or Skoda. Although the Mondeo was a good car, Jaguar changed almost everything, invariably for the better. It drives better than contemporary 3 series BMWs, especially the AWD versions. They're also extremely well made and reliable. The good and bad thing about it was that it kept the Mondeo hard points. Good because the internal space for the external size of the car way ahead of other Jaguars. Bad because it ruined the appearance and made the small XJ styling look a pastiche. The bottom of the windscreen and the front door post are too close to the front wheels, ruining the stance and very un-Jaguar, especially at the time. Apart from that, is a BMW 3 series size car a Jaguar? The ultimate killer was the lack of space for the AWD transfer gear. It stopped the development of an 'R' version that could have really lifted the image. It also limited the diesels to front wheel drive.

When we moved back to England a eight years ago, we wanted a daily driver and looked through all the 'sensible' options before deciding a 7-year old X type wagon was the best value. We've absolutely no regrets. It does everything very well and cost no more than a VW Golf of the same age in much poorer condition.

 

Getting back on topic, the series XJ cars were outstanding in their day and still are with a ride-handling compromise beyond their competitors. They were designed in a time when bodies were made in a lot of small pieces, before the use of large side pressings. In addition, the Pressed Steel Company designed joint details for ease of manufacture rather than stiffness. I remember some XJ40 road testers saying the big difference between it and the series 3 was that it felt like one piece of metal rather than a bunch of pieces that happened to be all going in the same direction. As you stiffen up the suspension, the flexibility of the standard body becomes more evident, especially in the XJC. However, it isn't any worse than other 1960s designed cars and if you follow ICS, FiBoy and others, it can be sorted.

 

Not so much to add, but I came across this today. Series 3 GT sleeper?

 

Isn't that an XJ40 station wagon (or estate as the British call them)?