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I'll throw my two cents in here on the dash topic.
My dash wood was not in terrible condition, but I was not going to leave it as it was. I removed the old finish and veneer with a heat gun and almost sharp gasket scraper. Came off very easily. I didn't care for the dark traditional walnut, so I chose birds-eye maple raw veneer from Veneer Supplies (no affiliation). They also have the correct adhesive for veneer to wood applications. When I re-veneered the metal central panel, I had a couple of choices for adhesives in mind. Polyurethane glue (gorilla, et al) or original JB Weld, I chose the latter. I holds like cat hair to your best dinner suit and is easy to work with (within reason). Because I left out the trip computer and radio, I needed to do a little fabrication prior to veneering and I'm happy with the results. I veneered both pieces straight across and cut all the openings and trimmed the edges with hole saws, forstner wood bits, and a router. It's impossible to cut the holes in the veneer first and have them line up perfectly during glue-up.
Veneering is not physically hard, but you need to have all the appropriate tools, adhesive, cauls/platens, clamps/vacuum bags, clean work bench, as well as an understanding of wood and how different finishes and adhesives will react to each other. To anyone not familiar to this process, I would recommend research and then practice on a couple of pieces of scrap plywood (or whatever you plan to use for the real thing). When you feel comfortable, go for it. There is any kind of wood veneer out there that you can imagine.
Here's a couple of pics from my dash project.
Dave
P.S. I used five coats of semi-gloss lacquer on mine because I didn't want a shiny surface. Glove box door. Main dash panel.
I will supervise the carpenter to do a great job like this for me.
I have purchased
1. 8ft Wood Veneer Roll,
2. a 2.5L High Gloss Lacquer,
3. Multipurpose Adhesive Spray and ready for work but does not have other tools so I will finally head to a Carpenter for the project to begin.
I might add another opinion mikeag, wood expands and contracts with changes in temperature and moisture content. You can't really stop it. Of the two, moisture causes the most movement and by finishing the "show" side, that is reduced considerably. I would recommend putting a coat or two of finish on the back of the dash board also, it will help reduce the amount of moisture entering the wood from the back. Because of the expansion/contraction of the wood, spray adhesive might not hold as well as other "purpose designed" adhesives. I would recommend laying the dash board flat after you've applied the veneer and then putting something heavy (30-40lbs) evenly distributed on it for a day. Spray adhesive is very quick to take hold, but still needs some time to fully cure for maximum strength.
That's nice looking veneer, is it Mahogany? It will be easier to match the grain with that piece.
I might add another opinion mikeag, wood expands and contracts with changes in temperature and moisture content. You can't really stop it. Of the two, moisture causes the most movement and by finishing the "show" side, that is reduced considerably. I would recommend putting a coat or two of finish on the back of the dash board also, it will help reduce the amount of moisture entering the wood from the back. Because of the expansion/contraction of the wood, spray adhesive might not hold as well as other "purpose designed" adhesives. I would recommend laying the dash board flat after you've applied the veneer and then putting something heavy (30-40lbs) evenly distributed on it for a day. Spray adhesive is very quick to take hold, but still needs some time to fully cure for maximum strength.
That's nice looking veneer, is it Mahogany? It will be easier to match the grain with that piece.
Dave
Thanks Dave,
So you mean i should not use the adhesive spray?
if so, i will use white glue for the work ,or what do you recommend for the gluing?
Also do you mean i should spray lacquer to the back of the wood panel?
I went to show to the carpenter and he recommended we buy below materials to spray the surface an it will give us same surface as the original work.
Sirca lacquer
Sirca Sealer
Sirca Hardner
Slow Themer
do you know of that?
I told him if that does not work then we will apply the veneer.
The veneer is not mahogany, it is Asanfena, not sure if you have heard of Asanfena ever before.
at first when i went to the carpenter and showed him to identify what was used for the wood surface finishing, he then said the products used for that are very expensive you can't afford, he judged by my appearance and structure. I told him tell me what they are, then later he started mentioning the above list and i told to write for me to buy them for him to morrow for the work. He was surprise to hear me saying i will buy them, he said then you mean what you want to do.
i said yes, am determined to do it.
I would not use a carpenter who's unfamiliar with veneering a car dashboard. Because of the constant fluctuation from hot to cold the glues and varnish used are different from the ones used to veneer a piece of indoor furniture. With the wrong glue, the veneer will eventually peal off the substrate. With the wrong varnish, the surface will quickly crack. Most suggest an exterior spar varnish or exterior spar urethane for the finish. These are designed to last through those extreme temperature swings. I don't remember the recommended glue, but it's definitely not spray glue. Do a google search on "dashboard veneering" for suggestions from the pros.
I'll throw my two cents in here on the dash topic.
My dash wood was not in terrible condition, but I was not going to leave it as it was. I removed the old finish and veneer with a heat gun and almost sharp gasket scraper. Came off very easily. I didn't care for the dark traditional walnut, so I chose birds-eye maple raw veneer from Veneer Supplies (no affiliation). They also have the correct adhesive for veneer to wood applications. When I re-veneered the metal central panel, I had a couple of choices for adhesives in mind. Polyurethane glue (gorilla, et al) or original JB Weld, I chose the latter. I holds like cat hair to your best dinner suit and is easy to work with (within reason). Because I left out the trip computer and radio, I needed to do a little fabrication prior to veneering and I'm happy with the results. I veneered both pieces straight across and cut all the openings and trimmed the edges with hole saws, forstner wood bits, and a router. It's impossible to cut the holes in the veneer first and have them line up perfectly during glue-up.
Veneering is not physically hard, but you need to have all the appropriate tools, adhesive, cauls/platens, clamps/vacuum bags, clean work bench, as well as an understanding of wood and how different finishes and adhesives will react to each other. To anyone not familiar to this process, I would recommend research and then practice on a couple of pieces of scrap plywood (or whatever you plan to use for the real thing). When you feel comfortable, go for it. There is any kind of wood veneer out there that you can imagine.
Here's a couple of pics from my dash project.
Dave
P.S. I used five coats of semi-gloss lacquer on mine because I didn't want a shiny surface. Glove box door. Main dash panel.
Dave,
How was the wholes created after you applied the veneer?
is there specific tool to use?
I will try to explain what I can, but "determined" and "tomorrow" would not be the best way to proceed if you and/or your carpenter don't have some experience with "fine woodworking".
Wood is always expanding or contracting depending on the moisture in the air or the temperature of the air. The unfinished dash board is a furniture grade 7 ply plywood, pretty good stuff. Plywood, because of the way the plies are layed, tend to stay flat and straight more than solid wood. My dash board was not finished (coated) on the back side and had a small amount of bow, partly because of this. When you add the new veneer to the front side and put finish on it, you have effectively sealed that side from moisture. But if the back of the dash board is unfinished it will absorb moisture and expand slightly causing the dash board to bow, not a huge problem if it will straighten out when screwed back in the metal dash frame.
The veneer wood is also expanding/contracting with moisture and temp, but much more because it is a solid wood with the grain all going the same way. Solid wood expands much more across the grain than along the grain. This is why I would not use any kind of spray adhesive to attach the veneer, it just isn't strong enough. The veneer will continue to expand/contract slightly and the spray glue will eventually loose grip. There are glues designed expressly for veneering and I don't know what is available where you live. I ordered a product called "Ultra Cat", or UCAT for short when I bought my veneer. It is a water-based two part (water and powder) glue and seems to be very good. In the past, I have had very good results when using polyurethane glues (Gorilla glue, Titebond, etc.). It is very important to understand how wood reacts with different glues and how finishes react with different glues.
Water-based glues put moisture into the wood and cause it to expand. Polyurethane glues do not have water in them and will not make the wood expand, in fact, poly glues actually cure by absorbing moisture from the wood. If you are using very dry wood, wiping the glue area with a damp (not wet) rag will make the glue setup faster and stronger. White glue is also a water-based glue and I have never used it. Except for being water-based, I have no opinion on it. Because of this, if a water-base glue is used, the veneer will immediately begin to curl up like a watch spring and you will become very scared if you're not ready with a way to keep it flat.
Before you squeeze the first drop of glue on anything, you need to visualize what the wood is going to do and what you need to do to control it. The Jag dash is just a flat piece of plywood with a bunch of holes in it. You want it to stay flat. One way is to use a vacuum bag press system which is designed just for dealing with laminations, veneering, and other complex glue-ups. Expensive for one or two projects. To keep the veneer flat against the flat dash board while everything dries has to be hard and strong and very flat. I use multiple layers of 1 1/8" particle board, but not the kind used in house construction. These are called "platens" and will spread the pressure from the clamps evenly and stay flat. You will get glue on things that shouldn't be glued together, like the dash board glued to the platen. To prevent this, I use ordinary wax paper like might be in your kitchen, almost nothing will stick to wax. Put a layer of wax paper between the bottom platen and the dash board and have the proper pieces ready to put on the top of the veneer before you lay on the top platen. You need to have all the tools ready for applying the pressure between the platens. I use whatever I have as long as they are strong. Woodworking clamps and metal working "C" clamps are good. The pressure you will be putting on the veneer/dash board is in the neighborhood of 1000 to 1300psi, that's why the platens need to be strong and the clamps need to be spaced close and evenly. It helps to have a friend help you.
If you use a polyurethane glue, the veneer will not curl up and if you have very dry wood, wipe a little moisture on the dash board instead of the veneer, don't need both. Polyurethane glue is very strong and I would not hesitate to use it, even though I tried something new this time. When polyurethane (PU) dries it creates foam that hardens wherever it squeezes out between the two pieces. Normal. Once the piece has dried, the foam can be cut off just like trimming Styrofoam. There is a difference between "dry" and "cured", the latter being when the piece is the strongest. Again, not a huge deal on the dash board, but I would let it set in the clamps for a day or two.
Most, if not all, common finishes will not penetrate or adhere to a water-base glue as a general rule. Cleanliness is next to godliness when it come using this type glue. If you get some of this glue (white glue, yellow glue, etc.) on the "good" part of the work piece, do not just wipe it off, you will only push it into the fibers of the wood and the finish will leave spots on the surface of the work. Nearly impossible to get all the glue cleaned out. If you get a bit of yellow/white glue where you don't want it, wait until that glue is about 70% dry and then carefully shave it off with a sharp chisel. If you do smear a wet glue spot, have some lacquer thinner and wet a clean rag and do your best to wipe up the glue.
All finishes that I have used will go on over PU glue without an issue. After the veneer/dash board is out of the platens and cleaned up you will want to cut the holes and trim the edges. The veneer will be very easy to split or chip and a good standard practice is to put tape (duct tape is best) over and beyond the edges of where you want cut. It will hold the veneer together while you are cutting. I don't mean it will hold together if you use a pocket knife of chisel. Something called a Forstner bit is the best drill bit for the gauge holes. I used a router and self-guided flush trim bit to cut out the speedo and tach holes as well as trim around the edge of the board.
I don't recognized the name of your finishes, but that's not unusual, I used semi-gloss crystal clear lacquer on mine because I didn't want the dash to be so shiny. Water-based finishes tend to dry faster and are better for the environment but are not as tough or have the presence (chatoyance) of oil-based finishes.
I think I'll end here, but if you have more questions I'll try to answer them.
Dave,
Nicely done explanation of the issues with automotive veneers. Not a trivial process, that's why I just bought the replacements. Some things are better done by those with experience.
Thanks nilesh, I've done so many things to this car that were above my pay-grade that the veneering wasn't too scary. The headliner was the worst for me.
07-23-2020, 08:42 AM
