Hi All,
10 mile drive earlier to a local jag mechanic for first attempt at an mot since I bought her.

arrived with a lot of heat and bit of burning smell from the rear brakes!

but first look underneath confirms she’s as rust free as I had thought,

and confirms a few oil leaks too...

but here are the two scary finds on first drive of a car that sat around a long time with the old owner:

1) brake pedal lost power on a down hill, and on arrival theres some binding of the back brakes and a leak of fluid near the reservoir

2) if that wasn’t bad enough ... Front right wheel had worked loose on the hub
and front left also has a bit of wobble on it.... pretty dangerous!

ive had the wheels off myself on the driveway to change tyres, but I’m pretty conscious about safety and tightening up and double checking and rechecking, and whilst my torque wrench probably needs recalibration, I think I’d done them as tight as reasonably could with my long bar


so the mechanic checked with his wrench and bolts tightened a little but not much and the wheel still wobbled, so I’d not over tightened and was not far off by the sound of that,

ive left it with him for now, but he thought possibly my bolts are non standard, so here’s a picture - can anyone confirm?

Has anyone else had that? Wheels are standard pepperpots.






bit worrying...!!!

thanks a lot, Al

 

what year and model is the car?

 

it's a 1985 XJ6 4.2 Sovereign

 

And, what do the studs on the hubs look like ? And the wheels? I suspect a mismatch of nuts to wheels !!!!.

 

if they woble with lugnuts fully tight I would check the inner and outer bearings in the disc rotor, the tie rods and rack.
the racks in these cars are known to move side to side when factory bushings deteriorate so there are kits to resolve the issue using polyurethane bushings which give a more positive tracking to steering. The originator of the Rack Kit was John's Cars in Texas, then everybody started copying it.
If you raise the front of car and spin the tires and hear a roaring type of sound, it's the wheel bearings worn. Same if you can feel looseness when you grab the tires and move them east to west, north to south.

​​​​​

 

Seems more to be that it’s wobbling on the hub not the hub itself, the disc was solid and still, more like the wheel was wobbling whilst the studs and nuts were still, is more like the nuts won’t go tight enough to hold it in place, even when torqued to spec, so am a bit worried the nuts are wrong or the wheels, or maybe the washers on the nuts have been replaced with the wrong ones,

Just seems a strange thing to have been changed on an old car, esp as the wheels look like original pepperpots,

Not sure if anyone knows what the original markings were that I could check mine against?

thanks, Al

 

I once had a similar experience with pepperpots...or rather with my own carelessness. The cause of the wobble was a washer left on one of the studs after I removed the wheel and which remained there (how that happened, I no longer remember) so when I tightened all 5 wheel nuts, one was tightened against the wheel which was tightenened against a washer. The result was a weird wobble. Once I removed the wheel again I could see the errant washer. Removed it, refitted and tightened the nuts. No issues of wobbling.

one more possibilty: I once bought a set of "pepperpots" which turned out to be JEEP faux pepperpots. The do not fit properly....any chance this might be the case? The correct Jaguar Ogle pepperpots have a domed central portion. The JEEP version is flat.

 

Thanks do you know if the washers are meant to be flat or shouldered?

 

in that case, it could be that the lugnuts are too long and they are not pushing the wheel towards the hub.
Maybe if you compare the lugnuts with one from the rear? If they are the same then you know it is an issue of the length at the front. Many other members here use Pepperpot wheels and I had never heard of wobling wheels.

 

Could be, just still perplexed how the wheel and nuts were secure when I changed the tyres but loose 10 miles down the road, somethings broken somehow! Think I’ll head over to the mechanic’s shop tomorrow for another look as currently lost faithn8n the car today sadly, though I’m sure it’ll be fixable and probably the result of something stupid by me or the previous owner!

 

They are supposed to be flat, as I remember, and thise nuts do not look correct to me, partly because the Jaguar nuts are NOT marked as "1/2 inch".

 

the original nuts with the Kent wheels are a black color and they have no neck as the ones in your photo. You can see the stud through the nut.

 

As mentioned you do not have original Jaguar lugnuts.

Below are a couple pics of nuts typically seen on a Series III XJ6 with Kent wheels

The first is the early style which is a solid nut, chrome or some sort of shiny metal, part number CAC4549 (this part number is subject to some catalog discrepancies).

The second pic is the later style which is an open nut fitted with a stamped stainless steel bright cap part number CBC1262

Both have an integral washer fitted







In the case of your existing lugnuts I suspect (again, as someone already mentioned) that the shank portion is too long and it bottoms against the hub before the wheel is tightly clamped down.

Or.....

The diameter of the shank is too small, making for a loose fit through the wheel, allowing the wheel to wobble.

Wheel wobble from either cause may have damaged/enlarged/elongated the holes in the wheels

Cheers
DD

 

Hi,
Those are definitely aftermarket nuts and the washer flat side should go towards the rim. I just upgraded to a set of the new polished Kent wheels that Moss sells but haven't had time yet to make a post about all the issues with nut and center cap differences ( 12-14 hour work days right now ! ). I know some of the nuts I bought / looked at are smaller diameter and / or longer shank than factory. Either or both could make your rims wobble even when tightened to spec. I don't have a set of pepperpots to measure but I know some of the nuts I checked out could cause similar issues if used on factory Kent rims.

With a wheel off the car, put a nut in the lug hole and see if it has any wobble / play and if it is flush or protruding on the inside.
Either would be bad and both REALLY bad !

The other thing to check is how deep the hole is in the nut, the stud might bottom out in the nut before it can clamp the wheel.
With the wheel off, thread down a lug nut and measure the gap between the washer and the hub face when it bottoms out. Next measure the thickness of the rim at the lug nut holes. If the rim is not at least a 1/16 to 1/8 thicker than the lug nut gap, I would not trust the nuts to hold the rim.

Hope this helps, I'll try to make a post tomorrow with pics of all the lug nut styles I've found with measurements !
One more thing, don't go by the nut manufacturer's drawings as exact ( on Amazon etc ), some of the nuts I bought were "off" quite a bit !

Cheers !
Brian

 

when I eliminated the ugly Kent wheels to replace them with elegant Teardrop wheels, the fronts did not sit correctly and I could not fit the hubcaps because the disc hub extended too far.

I had to use spacers and longer lugnuts because the original lugnuts were now too short and the studs did not extend enough.

I think you have the opposite problem with the Pepperpot wheels.

 

Since the Ogle pepperpots were original wheels on the Series III cars (on the Sovereign, optional on others) there is no issue such as you found with the XJ40 teardrop wheels. The Kents and pepperpot wheels are directly interchangeable, incuding the lugnuts. I made those substitutions numerous times with never an issue.

 

My guess is wrong lug nuts. Visit breaker and get a few for trial. I bet the fit... Do not drive with unsafe wheels...

Carl

 

here's 9 of the original lugnuts from my 1984 XJ-6 Kent wheels, Black anonized. Don't remember what happened to the 10th lugnut.
**the two chromed lugnuts are spares for the front Teardrop wheels.

 

Jose...with respect, the black wheel nuts are not OEM. Jaguar did not use black anodised nuts for the Kent or the Ogle wheels. They were all chromed.

 

I was thinking the stainless steel caps may have been removed?



Cheers
DD