XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Series 1 water pump

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:27 AM
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Default Series 1 water pump

Hello, my water pump has developed a steady drip from the hole in the underside of the pump body just behind the pulley which used to hold the fan(being a Queensland car it has been fitted with massive twin electric fans instead).
Looking at the book these pumps can be dismantled and repaired, I am assuming because the pump is still working and circulating the water that the impeller is ok ,just a seal gone. Is the hole to let you know when the seal is leaking?
If so, is it a simple o-ring or seal I can get from my local seal wholesaler/importer?, or is it Jaguar only part. As I would keep driving the car until I get parts if they are Jag specific,or I could pull the pump and source the parts locally if that is the case.My other favourite car is on stands at the moment.
It's not really an issue at the moment as it only lost 500 ml of coolant on a 1200 mile drive.

Or from experience would you just replace the whole pump?


As you can see from the pics,the two fans take up the full width of the
engine bay(a bit of overkill)
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9415.jpgSeries 1 water pump-dsc_9416.jpg
 
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:34 AM
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it could be more than just a seal, the shaft and bearing could be worn too, a temporary fix at best, up to you but if it was me I'd replace the entire pump, check with SNG Barrat USA store for a rebuilt or new pump and new gasket.

SNG Barratt - The Ultimate Jaguar Parts Specialist
 
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:50 AM
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Clarke,

STANDRD mechanical water pump seal.

STANDARD water pump bearing, 1/2" shaft from memory, HAHA, and cut the shafts to the length required.

Mostly available from CBC. The shaft cutting requires a lathe and a keen eye. Not for me these days.

That hole is the bleed hole, and is doing exactly as designed.

I would NOT mess with all that, and simply replace the pump. JagDaim once more have water pumps.
 
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:03 AM
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Thanks Grant,already sent Doug at Jagdaim an email with a price enquiry and stat and gaskets to go with it.
(already got to know the parts guy on first name basis,lol)



I have an account at CBC,so when I get a new pump I might buy the parts and rebuild the old one just to see what is involved then flick it on ebay for the cost of the parts.
 

Last edited by o1xjr; 07-01-2014 at 09:10 AM.
  #5  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:45 AM
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$330.00 recon including frt

Regards Tony
AJG SPARES
07 5424 2584
One available locally,too many $$$$

Hi Clarke
Unfortunately I can’t help you with a seal or kit for your pump we find it cheaper to supply reconditioned pumps at $140 exchange
Please that there can be two styles of pump in 1973.
A gasket is .80c
Thermostat is $15.10
Gasket to suit is $2.85
Cheers
Doug
Grant, JagDaim always seem to be the winner .

Now just got to get that jeep out of the workshop before I can start. But got to go to work for a few days now to pay the bills.
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
[...]

But got to go to work for a few days now to pay the bills.
Yup! It's always getting in the way!
(';')
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:35 AM
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Work merely changes, but seldom goes away!!! Even if retired, work continues.
I am cook, gardener, housekeeper, book keeper and handyman around here. aided at times by daughter, son and Coco. Hmm, not sure about the latter. good companion, though.


The only water pump I ever rebuilt was for a Model A Ford. Rather simple.


I wonder if my little restored Atlas lathe could turn a bit of bar stock to a dimension that was close enough to work. I have turned down a shoulder on a bolt, mostly to get the hang of centering work in a four jaw chuck. A tad rough, but, I coluld polish on it a bit.


Three "new" toys left here to amuse me by son. 1932 Rotohoe tiller powered by a little Lauson engine. A B&S powered lawn vacumn. Ha, what lawn. And a pre Erector set toy cabinet shop. Drill press and table saw powered by a flywheel enrgy driven master shaft ala 20's era. all need messing with!!!


So, yeah, replace the pump to get the car in action. then rebuild the old for the , whatever....


My lump has an after market electric pump. A salvation from a self inflicted mess.
I do like it a lot. Uptown Jaguar. PCM controlled twin electric fans and electric pump.
And, I hear electric power steering is almost a possible...


Carl
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post

My lump has an after market electric pump. A salvation from a self inflicted mess.
I do like it a lot. Uptown Jaguar. PCM controlled twin electric fans and electric pump.
And, I hear electric power steering is almost a possible...


Carl
Doesn't all that electrically powered stuff need a bigger alternator? It's already running the AC clutch, fans, lights and various other things.

How much bigger can you go without losing all you've gained by not pushing fluid around with belts off the engine?
(';')
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
Doesn't all that electrically powered stuff need a bigger alternator? It's already running the AC clutch, fans, lights and various other things.

How much bigger can you go without losing all you've gained by not pushing fluid around with belts off the engine?
(';')
My LT1 came with a 140 AMP generator. Carl's is probably the same. These 140 amp Delco alternators can power quite a bit of stuff. I think the stock Jaguar alternator was rated for 75 amps and look at how much work it has to do! Interestingly, the stock LT1 water pump is driven by a shaft to a coupler to another shaft that has a gear on it being driven by the timing set's cam gear. No belt for the water pump! The electric pump eliminates all that shaft/coupler/shaft/seal/bearing/gear mumbo jumbo. It's great because it doesn't leak, but is electrical, rather than mechanical...pick your poison, I guess.

Your concern is certainly a valid point though, Elinor. You can't just keep adding on more electrical bits without having enough juice to operate them (as you know).
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by moronthethrottle View Post
My LT1 came with a 140 AMP generator. Carl's is probably the same. These 140 amp Delco alternators can power quite a bit of stuff. I think the stock Jaguar alternator was rated for 75 amps and look at how much work it has to do! Interestingly, the stock LT1 water pump is driven by a shaft to a coupler to another shaft that has a gear on it being driven by the timing set's cam gear. No belt for the water pump! The electric pump eliminates all that shaft/coupler/shaft/seal/bearing/gear mumbo jumbo. It's great because it doesn't leak, but is electrical, rather than mechanical...pick your poison, I guess.

Your concern is certainly a valid point though, Elinor. You can't just keep adding on more electrical bits without having enough juice to operate them (as you know).
OK, I get that. Actually I get All that, thank you very much, and for the diagram.

What was the purpose of all those shafts and stuff to operate the water pump? Was it merely to do away with the possibility of slipping belts? It certainly looks like a Rube Goldberg setup to me.
(';')
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
Work merely changes, but seldom goes away!!!
[...]


Carl
Actually, Carl, I love my work. I have the best job in the world.

I get to work on other people's yards, they always look better when I leave than when I arrived, I get all rainy days off, I get to be OUTSIDE quite a lot, I get lots of exercise, I don't have to go to tanning salons, all my bosses like me, I get to operate lots of tools and machinery and drive a big truck (Sign In - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum), and for all that, people actually PAY me!

I have the Best Job in the World!
(';')
 
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
What was the purpose of all those shafts and stuff to operate the water pump?
(';')
Only GM knows...and it would take a congressional hearing to try to pry an answer out of them!

You'd love to work over my yard! SWMBO has plans...we have 4 acres, going to dig up about half an acre in the front yard that slopes downhill about 20' or so and plant it full of wildflowers. Planning on lots more bushes, ground cover, and a stone path flower garden. It's a blank canvas waiting for an artist to masterfully brush on Mother Nature's beauty. Also waiting for more $!

Sorry for running away with your thread, Clarke.
 
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:02 AM
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Sorry for running away with your thread, Clarke.
I don't see anything wrong with drifting from the original thread topic,it always brings up a good conversation.
It only takes one post to get back on track.

 
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:54 AM
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Just talking. I did like my job. it involved interaction with lots of people. I did it for fifty years. The last 25 was as an independent and involved traveling all around the bay area. Included conferences in most of all the court houses. So many folks in all walks of life and all kinds of businesses. One was a business interruption claim for a well known old restaurant. Fire broke out of the a stove and shut him down. he ahd just bought the place. Although he had owned a prior restaurant, he was dumfounded when my analysis showed he lost money on every plate he served. Well, that is over all, I didn't do a plate by plate analysis. Merely. Income, labor food, mortgage, utilities, taxes, insurance, etc. My client and I got him back in business rapidly. I was sorry to see that it closed not too long afterwards....


And, I do like doing my yard work. Fresh air. sunshine, exercise. Interrupted by fixing busted machines, at a times. Major overgrown shrub project in one part in progress.
Slash is being shredded or placed in green recycle can. The old Troy Bilt shredder chipper was a restoration project. Works a charm. A couple of possibly hopeless critters to try to restore in the shed. Gas powered leaf pruner and chain saw. Given ne free by the neglectful owner. Left them out in the rain!!!!


Two of my Weed whackers became one that functioned plus a pile of parts. Ones drive was busted and the others engine just pooped out. No compression.


Yeah, the donor car was a 94 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. GM's last effort at the big boats. heavy and loaded with powered accessories. The alternator is big and produces a lot of juice.


And, yeah, that water pump drive via gears and shafts via the valve chamber is weird. I busted it removing the water pump to get at the Optispark. Slick but prone to trouble. A weeping water pump dribbled on to them!! Water vs electrics, as we know, not good. The electric pump eliminates that exposure. The spinning shaft and necessary seal is no more. Now, nicely self contained.


Carl
 
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:59 AM
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Default water pump removed,god bless PO's

This morning I headed for the garage with all intentions of giving the Bonneville some much needed attention for the best part of the day,but after refitting the saddlebags with new( home made) brackets I turned my attention the Jeep for a short time before Fireball snuck into the garage and had me unintentionally twirling spanners.
So,remove water pump. First of all I decided to reverse her up the drive for the first time only to get stuck(no traction over the little hump),so down again and try again a bit faster with 2 bags of cement on the boot. Done,only a few chips of concrete and a scrape mark on rear of trans pan from attempt number 2.
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9927.jpg
Trying to remove the header tank and thermostat housing had me hammering and swearing for a fair while before I found the 3rd bolt holding it in place up behind the tank(it was loose so assumed there was only 2 bolts because I could wriggle the housing),once that was removed the fun began. Could not get the adjuster bolt out of the power steering pump to remove the bolt because the fan shroud was in the way(no spanner room). So once I cut the belt all was good.
Got everything off then went to wriggle the water pump off,[email protected]#. Previous owner has fitted massive twin electric fans without allowing room to remove the water pump. You know how frustrating it is when you get something half way out then realise it's not going to get through the gap,and you can't get it to go back where it came from either. Anyway after a couple of beers and some brute force I had it back on its studs.
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9945.jpg
So with my less than adequate mechanical skills,I had 2 options,move engine backwards or remove fans, so I proceeded to cut slots in said fan shroud and use a 600mm ratchet extension as a punch and knocked out the offending plastic.
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9940.jpgSeries 1 water pump-dsc_9941.jpg
Wriggle pump off, job done.

Originally Posted by Grant Francis View Post
SWEET.

Happy wife happy life, is that right.

Now if you empty that boot, the l/100 will be better.

That temp is tooooooo cold, even at 4 below. I reckon the stat is stuck partly open.
Grant, when I removed the thermostat it was closed tight,and tested great on "her indoors stove top" oh how the girls love it when you bring car parts into the kitchen, bit like baking 2 pack paint in the oven.
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9936.jpg

Grant,this question is directed at you. When sending the pump to Jagdaim for an exchange rebuilt unit do they want the pulley on the pump or not? If not,do they have a workshop that could change the pulley to the new pump?. I see they sell second hand parts so I assume they have workshop facilities.
Series 1 water pump-dsc_9947.jpgSeries 1 water pump-dsc_9951.jpg

Originally Posted by moronthethrottle View Post
Sorry for running away with your thread, Clarke.
Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
I don't see anything wrong with drifting from the original thread topic,it always brings up a good conversation.
It only takes one post to get back on track.



See what I mean about it only taking one post to get back on topic.
 

Last edited by o1xjr; 07-27-2014 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:23 AM
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Clarke,

I know the "her indoors" feeling well. Washing engine parts in dishwasher usually does it for me. The fact is was HER V12 had NO sympathy at all.

I would fit a new stat, just because. Memory for S1 carby in "Tropical climate" was 74c. Dayco list a BT18A for that engine, which is a 82c stat, BUT, DT42C is a 71c and DT42E is a 77C. Same physical specs at the flanges and height etc.

As for the pumps, I reckon they come WITH pulley pressed on. That is memory, from when I wanted a S2 one, and they needed to know how many V grooves and something else I forget now, as it was 15+ years ago. I would ask Doug anyhow, just in case rules have changed.
 
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Old 07-27-2014, 07:39 AM
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Posting the old pump to Doug tomorrow,AM. So will leave pulley on. Will be calling him anyhow to see if my handbrake pivot bolts(3) I am waiting for have arrived yet,its been 9 weeks. Stat is a 82c job,but new it is as I am in there.
Is it best just to get replacement belts through them to? The Air con belt has a "Jaguar 0273 eac1323 uk" stamped on it,I assume it is 43 years old from that. Might get it replaced while I'm in there.

Bugger,moved the Jeep outside only to find it leaking coolant
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/n...2/#post1023841

Only to find the water pump seeping,Murphy's Law.
 

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Old 07-27-2014, 07:52 AM
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I would get the belts at the same time.

The aftermarket guides are so wrong, and that is frustrating. I had the S2 numbers written somewhere, but cant it when I need it.
 
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:47 AM
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I will call Doug first thing tomorrow and get all belts,stat and pump . I have been waiting for weeks/months for confirmation he has the handbrake pivot bolts. XJ6 with no handbrake is cool for me,but my learner daughter is a bit freaked by it being beside the console and not in it,and not working to boot. Teaching her a hill start without handbrake is fun. You or I would just us 2 feet.
Actually ,she is pretty good with the two feet method now, but has to do the test in Mazda with one foot and handbrake...I always preferred driving an auto with two feet.
 
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:06 AM
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Hello,

I accidentally came across this thread while looking for information about having my steel wheels on my '70 XJ6 re-painted! Anyway, I have only just replaced the water pump on my 4.2 series 1 XJ6. After a lot of searching, I got GB Auto Pumps in south east England to recondition mine. I sent it complete with pulley. Such was the service that they even called to say that the pulley was 1mm out from factory spec and did I want it put back 1mm out or to original. It cost me 126 (GBP). Just thought it might be of use to someone as getting a water pump fixed for a series 1 car was a lot harder than I thought.

Pete.
 
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