What's up with Bar's leak?
#1
What's up with Bar's leak?
Reading the workshop manual for my 1986 V12, I came across the recommendation to add Bar's Leak when changing the coolant.
What's up with that and is it wise to do so?
Don't want to clog up a perfectly sane cooling system....don't want it to start leaking either....
What's up with that and is it wise to do so?
Don't want to clog up a perfectly sane cooling system....don't want it to start leaking either....
#2
OOPS.
Very old info, and in the day, maybe just fine.
Older cars with the older vertical flow radiators are probably OK with that stuff, but cross flow radiators, the V12 etc style, are not so friendly.
Many I have dealt with, and have been using that stuff as suggested, have been seriously clogged in the lower 25% of the radiator tubes, and a few were not able to be rodded out, the stuff was like concrete, so a new core was needed.
Most of the new generation coolants are not compatible with it that I am aware of.
I would not use it in any car at any time.
If the car has a coolant leak, fix it, simple.
Very old info, and in the day, maybe just fine.
Older cars with the older vertical flow radiators are probably OK with that stuff, but cross flow radiators, the V12 etc style, are not so friendly.
Many I have dealt with, and have been using that stuff as suggested, have been seriously clogged in the lower 25% of the radiator tubes, and a few were not able to be rodded out, the stuff was like concrete, so a new core was needed.
Most of the new generation coolants are not compatible with it that I am aware of.
I would not use it in any car at any time.
If the car has a coolant leak, fix it, simple.
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#3
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#4
Elinor,
The pellets were supposed to dissolve as you have thought.
They did not. The solution they were in, inside the container, was basically soluble oil, used waaaaaay back in radiators when water was the fill. The soluble oil was claimed to lubricate the water pump seal.
Now with coolants being longer life than most engines, and lots of other cooling system advances, alloy radiators being the main thing,
The very fine tubes in modern radiators and heater cores would NOT be compatible with the pellets, or most any claimed radiator sealants in my opinion.
The pellets were supposed to dissolve as you have thought.
They did not. The solution they were in, inside the container, was basically soluble oil, used waaaaaay back in radiators when water was the fill. The soluble oil was claimed to lubricate the water pump seal.
Now with coolants being longer life than most engines, and lots of other cooling system advances, alloy radiators being the main thing,
The very fine tubes in modern radiators and heater cores would NOT be compatible with the pellets, or most any claimed radiator sealants in my opinion.
#5
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Yes, I recall the halcyon days of Barr's leak. I might even have used it a time or two.
More likely than not in a top and bottom tanked radiator. I think it worked and with no lingering issues.
Today, no, and not for a fairly long spell.
If one is "up against it" and needs a sealer, in lieu of a proper fix, there are better products.
But, in this day of alloy radiators, fixes improbable, I'm not so sure. The things seem
"throw aways". Another example of our wasteful society.
OK, sermon over...
Out!
Carl
Carl
More likely than not in a top and bottom tanked radiator. I think it worked and with no lingering issues.
Today, no, and not for a fairly long spell.
If one is "up against it" and needs a sealer, in lieu of a proper fix, there are better products.
But, in this day of alloy radiators, fixes improbable, I'm not so sure. The things seem
"throw aways". Another example of our wasteful society.
OK, sermon over...
Out!
Carl
Carl
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#6
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Great advice Grant.
Back in 1980 or thereabouts, always marginal cooling turned into growing overheating problems in our Series1 E-Type. For some years, we had stopped using Barr's Leaks but were growing tired of enduring these problems, especially in our 40+C summers. Out with the w/pump and t/stat (both OK) and our incredibly heavy radiator.
Heavy? Several days later, in the pro rad shop and with end tanks removed as flushing achieved nothing, we learned -
However, I do recall the rad shop staff delivered same advice that Grant has delivered here . . . in particular, they pointed to the midband of paste as a chemical progression of incompatibility that gradually blocks more and more of a cross-flow, or horizontal pass, rad. Brand new, somewhat thicker, rad core fitted . . . never any Barr's Leaks . . . and never another issue.
Cheers,
Ken
Back in 1980 or thereabouts, always marginal cooling turned into growing overheating problems in our Series1 E-Type. For some years, we had stopped using Barr's Leaks but were growing tired of enduring these problems, especially in our 40+C summers. Out with the w/pump and t/stat (both OK) and our incredibly heavy radiator.
Heavy? Several days later, in the pro rad shop and with end tanks removed as flushing achieved nothing, we learned -
- the top 50% of the rad was still open and working . . . sort of;
- the mid-height 1" was filled with a whitish sludge paste;
- the bottom 50% of the rad had somewhat bulging channels that looked like absolutely solid metal, the rusted crud indistinguishable from surrounding metal, and impossible to "rod" in the traditional manner.
However, I do recall the rad shop staff delivered same advice that Grant has delivered here . . . in particular, they pointed to the midband of paste as a chemical progression of incompatibility that gradually blocks more and more of a cross-flow, or horizontal pass, rad. Brand new, somewhat thicker, rad core fitted . . . never any Barr's Leaks . . . and never another issue.
Cheers,
Ken
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Grant Francis (06-22-2017)
#7
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Ages ago GM used to recommend sealing pellets as part of routine servicing as well....even when there were no leaks. Never liked the idea.
Over a period of a few years the car, if serviced by the book, would've been treated to multiple doses of a cure for which there was no disease. Each dose added to the build-up of gunk.
I'm with Carl. These products are for use when "you're up against it". (Haven't heard that expression in years!)
Cheers
DD
Over a period of a few years the car, if serviced by the book, would've been treated to multiple doses of a cure for which there was no disease. Each dose added to the build-up of gunk.
I'm with Carl. These products are for use when "you're up against it". (Haven't heard that expression in years!)
Cheers
DD
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#8
I always loathed Bar's Leaks. Jaguar and other premium British car manufacturers stopped even mentioning the product years ago.
Imagine my surprise to find the Bar's Leaks company is still in existance. Not only still trading but they've extended their range of Snake Oils.
https://barsleaks.com/our-products/?...oling-system-2
This one is my particular favourite:
Can't wait for one of our members with an overheated V8 to give it a work out.
Graham
Imagine my surprise to find the Bar's Leaks company is still in existance. Not only still trading but they've extended their range of Snake Oils.
https://barsleaks.com/our-products/?...oling-system-2
This one is my particular favourite:
Can't wait for one of our members with an overheated V8 to give it a work out.
Graham
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#9
#10
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Strolling down memory lane again.....
In the late 90s Subaru was becoming overwhelmed with head gasket failures. I can't remember the root cause of the failures....just crummy gaskets, I think... but, man-o-man, we had LOTS of upset customers.
Subaru's 'fix' was a bolttle of this...repackaged with a Subaru label.....
https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/products/radweld-plus/
Infuriating. At the dealer level we knew, of course, that this was a bodge....and most of the customers did as well. But, Holts was the official cure. Eventually I think Suby did back away from the idea because customers would complain of head gasket leaks and dealers would just throw in another bottle of Holts. Eventually the systems got clogged and engines started to cook. What should have been stepping up to simply replace head gaskets blossomed into having to replace engines.
I can't remember how it all ended. I remember being disappointed at Suby because they were normally more proactive than other manufacturers and a bodge fix wasn't the usual practice.
Cheers
DD
In the late 90s Subaru was becoming overwhelmed with head gasket failures. I can't remember the root cause of the failures....just crummy gaskets, I think... but, man-o-man, we had LOTS of upset customers.
Subaru's 'fix' was a bolttle of this...repackaged with a Subaru label.....
https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/products/radweld-plus/
Infuriating. At the dealer level we knew, of course, that this was a bodge....and most of the customers did as well. But, Holts was the official cure. Eventually I think Suby did back away from the idea because customers would complain of head gasket leaks and dealers would just throw in another bottle of Holts. Eventually the systems got clogged and engines started to cook. What should have been stepping up to simply replace head gaskets blossomed into having to replace engines.
I can't remember how it all ended. I remember being disappointed at Suby because they were normally more proactive than other manufacturers and a bodge fix wasn't the usual practice.
Cheers
DD
#11
Before Bar's Leaks and long before Holt's Radweld, the white of an egg was recommended to be added to a leaking radiator when cold. As the temperature rose the egg cooked and magically sealed the leak. It was no less effective than the products mentioned.
This is another one that belongs in the toolbox with the sawdust for fixing a noisy diff and the Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke Kit.
Graham
This is another one that belongs in the toolbox with the sawdust for fixing a noisy diff and the Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke Kit.
Graham
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Grant Francis (06-22-2017)
#12
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Interesting.
I expanded the Bar add. I was surprised that it listed the ingredients in general terms.
It seems the "active" two are:
A salt. A crystaline compound. Moves about in suspension and then when it comes in contact with a leak, and is exposed to air, crystilizes and thusly becomes a hard seal So far, not too bad. But, what happens to the "uncrytalized"? Remains in suspension, or settles out?
B. Carbon fibers. The salt is the concrete? The carbon is the rebar? OK, so far.
Or is it. Just forms a stronger sediment???
At one time, I recall black pepper as a fix for a leaking radiator. Never tried that one.
I have a vague recollection of a product that the "full service station" where I worked during college, had a little can of "Stop Leak" on the "snake oil" display. Seldom sold.
I opened a can in curiosity. Seemed like aluminum powder???
Back in memory, I recall a ZEREX add. So far back, that the product came in gallon tins! The demonstrator used an "ice pick" to punch a hole in the side. Art first, a stream poured out, but then diminished and finaly stopped???
Doug: I think that phrase relates to "back against the wall".
Grahame:
My V8 will not see any of that stuff.... If it's big four row brass radiator springs a leak and it isn't in the core, I can solder it.
Way back when, my 57 Ford pickup had a bad habit of springing a leak at the upper tank to core joint. Luckily the front one. A propensity of them all at the time. Did the
solder thing a few times. Then, I seem to have found a fix. Not only fill the channel but build up a sheet of solder up the tank about 3".
Carl
I expanded the Bar add. I was surprised that it listed the ingredients in general terms.
It seems the "active" two are:
A salt. A crystaline compound. Moves about in suspension and then when it comes in contact with a leak, and is exposed to air, crystilizes and thusly becomes a hard seal So far, not too bad. But, what happens to the "uncrytalized"? Remains in suspension, or settles out?
B. Carbon fibers. The salt is the concrete? The carbon is the rebar? OK, so far.
Or is it. Just forms a stronger sediment???
At one time, I recall black pepper as a fix for a leaking radiator. Never tried that one.
I have a vague recollection of a product that the "full service station" where I worked during college, had a little can of "Stop Leak" on the "snake oil" display. Seldom sold.
I opened a can in curiosity. Seemed like aluminum powder???
Back in memory, I recall a ZEREX add. So far back, that the product came in gallon tins! The demonstrator used an "ice pick" to punch a hole in the side. Art first, a stream poured out, but then diminished and finaly stopped???
Doug: I think that phrase relates to "back against the wall".
Grahame:
My V8 will not see any of that stuff.... If it's big four row brass radiator springs a leak and it isn't in the core, I can solder it.
Way back when, my 57 Ford pickup had a bad habit of springing a leak at the upper tank to core joint. Luckily the front one. A propensity of them all at the time. Did the
solder thing a few times. Then, I seem to have found a fix. Not only fill the channel but build up a sheet of solder up the tank about 3".
Carl
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Grant Francis (06-23-2017)
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Grant Francis (06-23-2017)
#14
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old one (six months old) was absolutely clogged up.
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#15
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I was in the local "super' hardware store this AM. looking for, and found a "grabber". A device to allow me to pickup stuff and not bend my ancient joint. Good for low stuff as well as on the top.
As I am a curious guy, I visited the "snake oil" shelves. Yup, Bar's there as well as another "stop leak". Each promised a lo including head gaskets!!!
Carl
As I am a curious guy, I visited the "snake oil" shelves. Yup, Bar's there as well as another "stop leak". Each promised a lo including head gaskets!!!
Carl