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then do the 3 to 9 rocking test and see exactly what is moving.
It won't be the lower wishbone as that will be held tight by about 3/4 tonne of spring pressure - even if the bush is bad.
My guesses are - always assuming the bearings are adjusted properly, which they might not be as they settle after a bit - as a matter of logic through the system:
Steering arm top bolt, stub axle end fixing bolt into the upright, or caliper bottom bolt not tight
Steering arm ball join going home/not tight
Worn rack allowing the rack to move against the pinion (VERY unlikely)
Rack bushes/rack fixing bolts not tight (a Grant Francis point)
All this assuming your wishbone ball joints are OK
Got ya. I'll do exactly as you say...
Thanks for the G.O.D...
Good Orderly Direction...
then do the 3 to 9 rocking test and see exactly what is moving.
It won't be the lower wishbone as that will be held tight by about 3/4 tonne of spring pressure - even if the bush is bad.
My guesses are - always assuming the bearings are adjusted properly, which they might not be as they settle after a bit - as a matter of logic through the system:
Steering arm top bolt, stub axle end fixing bolt into the upright, or caliper bottom bolt not tight
Steering arm ball join going home/not tight
Worn rack allowing the rack to move against the pinion (VERY unlikely)
Rack bushes/rack fixing bolts not tight (a Grant Francis point)
All this assuming your wishbone ball joints are OK
So I checked these things, and as you said, you were right, I think the problem was in the bearing adjustment. They were loose and seemed much looser than when I set them a month ago. Tightened them, I think even a hair tighter than when I did the job and MIND YA I haven't gone over a singing bridge at 50+mph,,, but honestly, I feel an improvement.
The lower control arm/wishbone bushings seemed ok, all but one. But what do I know...? I'll post some photos. I'll also be reporting back when I venture a grated/singing bridge at some point in the future....I'm sure.
If it wasn't for y'all, left to my own, I would have gone ahead and dove into a ridiculously PAINFUL job, in the streets of NY, in 90+ degrees, 110degrees on the black top... These will need attention soon, still.
Thanks for saving me from myself, and thank you so so much! This one, LH front, looks the worst. RH RH There could be something that I'm missing but I have always thought that the uppers looked to good to be true. This or the next photo ain't so good.
So I checked these things, and as you said, you were right, I think the problem was in the bearing adjustment. They were loose and seemed much looser than when I set them a month ago. Tightened them, I think even a hair tighter than when I did the job and MIND YA I haven't gone over a singing bridge at 50+mph,,, but honestly, I feel an improvement.
The lower control arm/wishbone bushings seemed ok, all but one. But what do I know...? I'll post some photos. I'll also be reporting back when I venture a grated/singing bridge at some point in the future....I'm sure.
If it wasn't for y'all, left to my own, I would have gone ahead and dove into a ridiculously PAINFUL job, in the streets of NY, in 90+ degrees, 110degrees on the black top... These will need attention soon, still.
Thanks for saving me from myself, and thank you so so much! This one, LH front, looks the worst. RH RH There could be something that I'm missing but I have always thought that the uppers looked to good to be true. This or the next photo ain't so good.
I am not sure there is much wrong with the lowers, at least visually (only one has a little edge crazing). Need to remember the part of the bushing you are seeing is not doing any work. The working bush is hidden away out of sight and the elements.
I would put them on the list for when the cradle is out for something else, do them as a matter of course.
The cradle "V" mounts you mentioned earlier would be mush higher on that list, and I mean MUCH higher. You did the fronts, the rears are simpler by a long shot.
I have a PDF on that, and the modification I do, I will look for it and post, dripping shower tap has priority HAHA>
then do the 3 to 9 rocking test and see exactly what is moving.
It won't be the lower wishbone as that will be held tight by about 3/4 tonne of spring pressure - even if the bush is bad.
My guesses are - always assuming the bearings are adjusted properly, which they might not be as they settle after a bit - as a matter of logic through the system:
Steering arm top bolt, stub axle end fixing bolt into the upright, or caliper bottom bolt not tight Steering arm ball joint going home/not tight
Worn rack allowing the rack to move against the pinion (VERY unlikely)
Rack bushes/rack fixing bolts not tight (a Grant Francis point)
All this assuming your wishbone ball joints are OK
When I got my car, it wandered all over the road like it was playing Blind Man's Bluff. The track rod ends were completely shot, so they were replaced. Handling improved somewhat, but the car still drove like the proverbial land yacht. I began to suspect that I had a problem with the dreaded lower wishbone bushing, so I began scouring all the threads on this topic. I ran across @Greg in France 's above post mentioning the steering arm ball joint. I checked the track rod ends and there was good deal of play in them. I tightened up the retaining nut, and now they're rock solid. Thank's for the tip, Greg!
Well, this will LEARN me... I'm sure this explains my Lady's and I's *** clenching experience over the singing bridge.
I got my Tire Rack tires some weeks ago. Had them shipped to Pep Boys for the installation where I was told that for a discount, the alignment would/could be included as part of the mounting. My ***.
Below is what I drove out of Pep Boys with after the "alignment". I went to Pep yesterday to ask them to double check the work they had done to be told by the shop manager that the machine they have DOESN'T have info or perameters to align the 1990 XJS...? What??? I don't play, I got in his rear, got my money back after shaking my finger at them.
The wheel after tires had gotten a worse feel over time. I had never driven it RIGHT, so, inexperienced me, I didn't know what I didn't know. Still not sure I do.
QUESTION... Is there anyway to properly shim with the information included in this report? The shop that produced this report doesn't and won't get that deeply into it and the guy, a good ol fashioned mom and pop shop, told me to be weary of any shop in the area that would tell me that they CAN,,, and take my money. Told me the tires are still fine... Also added that on a car this age it can be a real challenge to get everything perfect.
Damn, this car has shamed me a few times now. At least things are feeling much much better behind the wheel. AND, I am with AC now. I'll go to that thread to do some reporting. Toe was so bad it was oft the charts... Machine couldn't read it. I should have been able to feel/know that. Lots and lots to learn. Sometimes I think toooooo much for me.
Last edited by JayJagJay; Jul 29, 2020 at 07:55 AM.
JJJ
There are plenty of places that can align the front wheels properly. Meanwhile do not get into a worry about the rears (I am looking at the "current measurements" graphic) which are perfect. Also, do not get in a muddle about the RED boxes, look at the figures themselves.
The front, again using the final graphic, I would say as follows as far as the front is concerned:
Camber: the LHS shows zero (ie wheel precisely vertical) the RHS shows 0.7 of a degree positive (ie wheel tilting out at the top). In reality this is not too far out, if it were me I would change the RHS to zero. The spec is 1/2 degree positive, quite honestly I do not think it is worth bothering with changing it. To do so means spring off, top wishbone mount undone from the subframe, and shims adjusted to give zero. I do not think you will notice the difference!
Castor: this is WAY off spec which is 3.25 degrees positive (meaning the angle of hinge between the top and bottom ball joint is tilting BACK at the top by 3.25 degrees). Your graphic shows the LHS to be over 4 degrees. This is easily adjusted by moving a shim on the top balljoint FROM the front of the balljoint TO the rear of it. This will straighten up the angle concerned a bit. Again, even though it is worth doing this I doubt you will notice.
Toe: The XJS is very sensitive to the toe adjustment, and VERY few places understand that the rack must be centralised, and the EACH tie rod adjusted separately to make each wheel correct independent of the other. The spec is 1mm (0.5 degree) toe in. The "combined toe" is a useless measurement, each wheel's toe must be correct relative to a properly centralised rack. Your toe looks fine though.
JJJ
There are plenty of places that can align the front wheels properly. Meanwhile do not get into a worry about the rears (I am looking at the "current measurements" graphic) which are perfect. Also, do not get in a muddle about the RED boxes, look at the figures themselves.
The front, again using the final graphic, I would say as follows as far as the front is concerned:
Camber: the LHS shows zero (ie wheel precisely vertical) the RHS shows 0.7 of a degree positive (ie wheel tilting out at the top). In reality this is not too far out, if it were me I would change the RHS to zero. The spec is 1/2 degree positive, quite honestly I do not think it is worth bothering with changing it. To do so means spring off, top wishbone mount undone from the subframe, and shims adjusted to give zero. I do not think you will notice the difference!
Castor: this is WAY off spec which is 3.25 degrees positive (meaning the angle of hinge between the top and bottom ball joint is tilting BACK at the top by 3.25 degrees). Your graphic shows the LHS to be over 4 degrees. This is easily adjusted by moving a shim on the top balljoint FROM the front of the balljoint TO the rear of it. This will straighten up the angle concerned a bit. Again, even though it is worth doing this I doubt you will notice.
Toe: The XJS is very sensitive to the toe adjustment, and VERY few places understand that the rack must be centralised, and the EACH tie rod adjusted separately to make each wheel correct independent of the other. The spec is 1mm (0.5 degree) toe in. The "combined toe" is a useless measurement, each wheel's toe must be correct relative to a properly centralised rack. Your toe looks fine though.
HOW DO YOU SPELL RELIEF:
G.R.E.G. G.R.A.N.T. D.O.U.G. and JF in general...
Thanks man.
I mean it!
So, if you remember not long ago, I replaced both upper and lower ball joints on both side. The revealed something interesting as all four shims were (I'll post a picture, I started writing before I looked) were placed either on the front, or back, of the upper ball joint. At the time someone advised me to split them up 2 front 2 back which made sense to me, which is what I did.
I will go back in and follow your instructions and move the shims around. It takes minutes.
Man, really, thanks.
About the idea that anyone in the US can service some of the systems of these cars... honestly, that level of workmanship is dying in the USA... And,,, maybe I just haven't found those that remain. Its a pretty sad state of affairs...
yeah... This is how I found the front RH set up. The LH was 2 front 2 back. I guess we're talking about the LH side, tho...
