Good morning Guys.

I NEED TO MAKE A CHOICE ---- Grant, Doug, Warren, ALL.... I am going to begin pulling the "vee" and its components. REALLY clean up... I will need guidance. I want to assemble a new FI loom and place it up on the rail and replace anything that has suffered from heat exposure over time, and do the right thing with it. To take suggestions for other changes you recommend and make them. I hope you will be available for that...??? Its strange. I feel like I'm taking a leap, and am a bit insecure - uncertain, lol.

In all of you guys experience, from what I've described, if the report was that the engine ran when it was parked so long ago, if I can crank the engine and it turns smoothly, if I get spark, if the compression is within acceptable limits and I get the (damn) FI firing --- are you relatively confident that I WILL be able to get this thing running with the needed work? Should I start spending real money on this car??? I'm looking at a floor board from the UK for $260 today, then (dont laugh) some cosmetic stuff for around $200, so far - and a possible ton of (needed no matter what) bits and pieces like hoses, sensors, regulators, coolant parts, vacuum tubing, belts etc etc etc.

AND,,,, very good Warren. Thank you. Believe it or not, after hearing about the coax many times, I am clear on why shielded wire is needed for this purpose, but I'm still unclear as to the location and how the installation goes. When the time comes, and OOOH its coming, I'll need you to walk me thru it... I am familiar with the make up of coax shielded cable, BUT how does one "ground" it, whats the plug look like (is there one) and is it a 'special' plug, is it a matter of opening and dissecting the cable and making it fit my needs AND, where does it begin and end at Marelli and Lucas ECU's. All questions I will need answers to.

WILL THIS PRODUCT WORK?I'll grab it right now...

I FEEL like such a punk, lol...

 

Good!

We're here for you !

Normal to feel a little uncertain. The V12 is intimidating to look at. BUT if you work methodically, patiently, take good notes and pics....it really isn't so bad.

If you rush, the car will fight you. I can guarantee that.


Yes


No.

IMO, don't get too far ahead of the game. First get her running and see how she sounds and runs

Cheers
DD

 

Midnight here Friday, and my beauty sleep awaits, haha.

If, and I mean IF you are going to "do" the V, you MUST have a methodical plan, and stick to it. It is NOT, repeat NOT a complicated process.

Time consuming, shaky hands, sweating palms, OF COURSE.

There is NO NEED to overthink, or over engineer the process.

The Marelli I will not get involved in, as I have only ever seen 1 here, and never laid a hand on it. I have read heaps on the system, but that is dangerous in my opinion.

I suggest:

Camera, take snaps, ensure they are clear, and NOT too close up, and keep a log as you go.

Make notes, write down stuff, dumb stuff maybe, but it is surprising what those scribblings can do when the info is needed.

Be prepared to walk away if the need arises, NO shame is that at all. Come back later, and surprise, surprise, it all falls into place.

Have trays, or something similar, that items can be placed into as you remove them, label the items, etc. Sound silly, I still do it. DO NOT have these trays anywhere near the engine bay, keep them ALL outside the engine bay. Tip one over when the plugs are out, and that "oh shiit" moment will be real.

I spent years by email with a guy in Manila who purchased a 1990 Saudi XJS as a non runner. He knew zero about cars, he is a Pom, and eventually wire by wire, hose by hose, etc etc, he rang me to have me listen as he turned the key and it started. Why a V12 in Manila, NO BLOODY IDEA, it takes 30 minutes to travel 1/2mile, but its his car.

I will PM you later, probably tomorrow. It will be self explanatory.

 

We've all been there, I remember the first project I undertook - replacing the starter, damn I was nervous and I've got an electronic/mechanical background. As Grant said work Methodically and take pictures of everything before you disassemble as a guide to put it back together.

You will need to make a new Loom from the ignitors to the coils as this will be toasty like the FI loom. The way I would approach it would be to make the FI loom first and install it and get the car running, then tackle the ignition loom.

RG6 will be fine for the shielded wire, the shielded wire goes from pin 24 of the Marelli to pin 18 of the Lucas.

Gota go now but I'll do a writeup on how to join coax for you when you're ready.

 

Hello All...

So I feel pretty good about my progress. Actually its simply been taking things apart and cleaning things up (see pics). Removed bellows, then ac compressor, then discon'd arms, removed throttle body and worked my way down stand to coils etc. Does a Marelli car have that vacuum diaphragm for "advancing" ignition or is 'advance" auto with Marelli ECU? I have no spring in the rotor pedestal... Hmm. And, is it worth it to clean the contacts in the TPS potentiometer? Will that work?

***BTW, vacuum tube from Lucas ECU holds a vacuum...! Good stuff. I need to learn if their is a way to test the Lucas and Marelli ECU.

***Warren - can you tell me if the wire I am holding IS the coax wire. Its the only thing I can find in the engine bay that might be it (see pic)..

After, Disassembled dizzy and wrapped base in a plastic bag held with rubber band, removed plug wires and left plugs in while I gave top of engine a good bath. I have a bit more to do. See before and after pics.

I ordered a new rotor and will grab in the AM. Rotor nearly (did) disintegrated as I was removing it (see pic). Not sure how it was providing spark a few weeks ago when I turned it over initially and tested. All plug wires are labeled, which is nice, I feel confident about reassembling.

I did compression tests - considering how long its been sitting, and I did the test without oiling initially, the numbers are low but I expect them to improve. I dropped an ounce or two of motor oil down the spark plug holes after, cranked the engine many times and will retest tomorrow am (see pics for results)

The dizzy looked ok after cleaning up contacts and the innerdz, and considering its at least $100 bucks I will reuse until I actually have CrabApple running or sounding like it wants ta run.

I removed FI loom. Tails leading to injectors are actually in ok shape,,, wiring that was in contact with engine sounds like a bag of tater chips when I move them around. I have to rewire and believe I can. One loom seemed to have been moved up to rail level in the past. The loom that goes to the amplifiers on metal plate over radiator. Is that normal? They are in great shape, so its just the loom that was in the "V"

My anxiety - after getting it back together, getting spark and FI's pulsing and firing.

p.s. ***** I have 7 FI that do not seem clogged. I will do the procedure suggested by JigJag tomorrow to blow them out. I wonder what you guys think about this. A mechanic gave me 6 FI from a XJR that are in great shape. He says they will work.
Physically, the only difference between the shape and size of mine and those is a little lip around the injector tip. I already have ground off the lip and expect that they will fit right into the ports on the XJS and be snugg with the new seals from Welsh Enterprises. I will try to fit them tomorrow. Again, just to see if I can get her coughing, sputtering and started. Then I will spend the $350 + for 7 injectors - maybe.

Thoughts?















Compression results. I know they are low.


IS THIS THE INFAMOUS COAX???

 

ALSO, the metal tubing that rides OVER the air intakes.... What the hell is it and whats its function? I want to remove, give a good sanding and paint them black while I'm at it.

And, I have a ton of new small 4,6,8, and 10mm silicone vacuum tubing on the way. What I can't replace with that, I have a good about of low pressure tubing around the "yard". Then the GREAT Gates stuff!

ADMISSION - the FI's that I mentioned in the previous post,,,, I scavenged from a 2000 (I think it is) XJR today. I simply don't have the $350+ for injectors right now. I know that I can make them work temporarily... Macgyver-ish style... Dont judge ME, lol!!!

Obviously,,, I am STOKED about this project!

Now, I have to figure out why my ABS light is on intermittently and my steering wheel controls and horn aren't working in my XK8... Does it ever end? lol

Cheers Guys. Thanks in advance! :-)

 

It's likely you can get all 12 injectors functioning again. They are tough and very durable. Goop, varnish and poor contacts are the main culprits in sticking them up.

Dont burn them out. Very quick pulses. 9v battery is sufficient.

That rotor! It's hard to tell from the shot how much is damage from your removal and what is prexisting. It looks like it took a lightning strike.

 

Jason,

I would not be using those injectors. I would persist with the V12 units, they will come good.

Those tube thingies, the rusty ones, are the air pump injection pipes, and are fed by the air pump, and probably do not work at all. Depending on the emissions requirements in your market, remove them, plug the holes. The V is easier to access with them gone. The air pump can be left insitu, or a simple idler pulley fitted to replace it. Jag dropped that pump, and has a pulley and arm for that purpose. They appear from time to time on ?bay.
The pipe that runs from the air pump under the exhaust manifold, will need to stay in there for now, so just tie it back so it dont rattle. It can be removed when the engine comes out, dont laugh, its the only way, unless you break it up in there, which is not easy.

 

That rotors a bit dead... that damage is caused by misfiring spark plugs then when the ignition lead breaks down the voltage takes the path of least resistance to ground and that will be via carbon build up on the rotor.

That cap is a genuine Marelli by look of it, clean it up and if it's good re-use it.

Yes that is the shielded wire in your last pic.

You can not use XJR injectors without adjusting fueling, I don't know what they flow but at a guess it would be higher than the V12 injectors, which would require a drop in rail pressure to decrease fuel and this will effect atomisation.

 

JJJ
I would not worry about the cylinder pressures. They are all compressing, and they will almost certainly equalise when the engine has had a few runs. In your place (but I bow to Warrjon on all matters Marelli) I would try to find a new dizzy cap. The central carbon brush looks as though it might not be much good, as do some of the posts.
T yes, the loom does go to the two amps on the front radtop panel. I think you have made exactly the right decision and steady work will do the job. removing the air injection is easy and well worth doing, by the way. I have recently helped a friend to do his. And yes, I am pretty sure that wire IS the shielded wire, and if it is not crisp and crackling, I would leave it alone, but test the circuit from the plug to the ECU in the boot to make sure it is OK.
greg

 

Hello All...

I'll heed warnings about the injectors. I was feeling pretty good about the scavenged ones. They dont have the barbed top but do have a flange that grabs hose well, made better with a clamp and cup (which finally came in from Welsh). At the bottom, another flange or lip that would need to be ground down to fit the hole at the intake, which I did grind, all 6 of them. That way, they are the exact same height LESS the stem that goes down into the intake port which is a little shorter. Sooo, I test fitted one with new upper & lower seal, steel ring for upper seal, snugged one down with the two bolt brace and it sat SNUG in/on the intake port... Mind you,,, no fuel rail or connector attached. I should have taken a picture.

Haven't set up the tester like Jigjag suggested, but will. Are people suggesting that should I go ahead and install them & they WILL clear up in place or, is there some special instruction beyond Jigjags?

I removed air pump piping. I will cap and tie it down. So much more room - Thanks Grant!

I ordered replacement floorboard today for a GOOD price - $161 plus $100 shipping. Thermal paste for amplifiers came in (thanks Warren). 2 CTS's came in also from Welsh. 24 of those little damn cups, lol. New plugs and a rotor. AND, a Jag XJ40, that my crazy friend bought on auction, had 14 new plug wires in the boot which he gave to me. I've spray painted some things. Then, 25ft of coax.... So, I think I have what I need (except time) to reinstall fuel rail and injectors. Repaired some wires (carefully) I identified as needing to be replaced by firewall. Pictures will be forthcoming.

I removed FI loom and cut off 80% of covering. The wires are pliable, fresh-ish, not a single crack or area that looks like potential trouble (see pics). The crackling I heard before was crusty tape and covering - NOT the wire. I intend to recover neatly and reuse this loom, a little relieved actually. I will certainly relocate. Thinking about under intake or on top of rail. Only issue I have are the FI plugs. I would like new plugs BUT the wiring on the FI plugs I purchased don't nearly meet the gage or quality of the OEM Jag wiring. If I clipped and soldered yes, I would have a new plug BUT I feel I would lose the strength and quality of the OEM wire itself. Dilemma.

Still concerned about the activity or the ability of the alarm, that still beeps with no key in the ignition and stops with key in "on" or "ac" position. I'm afraid it will inhibit firing of FI or some other major system as part of the alarm function stopping me in my tracks.

As usual - I am SUPER grateful for allllll of your attention!
Jay











FLOORS MATTER, LOL!

 

Also...

Would be very grateful for a part source on a Marelli distributor base gasket... I'll follow any lead.

 

All good stuff JJ> I have just one question:
Are you saying in the last post that you HAVE used non XJS injectors? If so, this is a mistake. Different injectors (eg XJ R ones) flow different volumes for a given opening time. You must use XHS HE injectors and no others.
Greg

 

Hi Greg...

I have not used them (car is still not running) but was planning to. A mechanic here told me that it shouldn't be a problem. I looked at him funny (gave him a look) when he said it's what I should/coould do, but he assured and reassured me that It would be fine. I simply don't have the $$$$ for 7 new injectors. How much MORE fuel will an XJ-R deliver? Of course I would not leave things that way.

 

JJJ
You do not need new injectors. What happened to the old ones? If you have them, soak them for a few days in neat injector cleaner and then do the pump clean test routine.


Loads of people have S/H injectors lying about your side of the pond I am sure, including the breakers. Ask around, ask on here. FWIW, rule one of the XJS rebuild is do it right the first time, even if you have to wait. I waited 5 years to start my rebuild and it took 2 years, and two years more before I could afford to repaint it.


Really, it is not worth a bodge, patience will be rewarded.
Greg

 

You are right - and I know that you are. I will wait then... Or, solve it and open/unclog the injectors I have. I still have the originals. I was ready to get all ghetto, lol

I saw replacements that would be, I think, $37 bucks each on a site here called "RockAuto" but didn't and don't trust them. Not really. And I would hate to buy crap.

Q: What are "breakers"?

I will wait and figure out the right thing and way - ya bummer, lol

 

What do you think about 7 of these? Sorry,,, but Im raring to go...

https://www.autopartskart.com/jaguar...4ZthoCsvjw_wcB

 

JJJ
Rockauto are very good indeed. I have had stuff rom them. Breakers are people who sell parts off scrap cars.
Those injectors from your link look fine to me. But I bet your will work after a soaking and a pump test.
Good for you, anyway to take it staedy I know how tempting it is to just get on with it rather than wait. But I am glad I did take it steadily. My car has been brilliant since I finished the rebuild in 2011. And it will stay like that for years and years I am sure.
Greg

 

I have just ordered 940' of 16 ga GXL wire in 5 colors ( KWUYG - unfortunately not matching OEM ) and may have a little bit left over once I've rebuilt my FI loom. If you want to rebuild your loom and would like enough of this to complete yours I'll cut you a mighty fine price!

I also have a line on a source for EFI connectors, boots, and black epoxy impregnated fiberglass sheathing. No hook-up on the loom plug though. I plan to go a different direction.

 

If they are off a I6 XJR then they will flow about 50% more than the V12 injectors, this will cause the engine to run very rich without re-programming the ECU.

In my 6.7L V12 I am using 2 sets of X Type V6 injectors to supply 400+HP and these injectors are 30% higher flow than the V12.