The day the internal combustion engine is no longer legal is the day I lose interest in cars

 

Just saw with my own eyes something I thought I'd never see. Didn't think about taking pictures...

A VW T3 DoKa with a quad-turbo Jaguar V12 wedged between the axles. All mated to a Porsche 6 speed transmission (manual).

The engine looked rather worn, not as pretty as mine, but was rather thought through.

Each turbo feeds 3 cylinders and is, in turn, spooled by 3 cylinders. He seemed to use the carb intakes from the E Type (abundant amount of them here as people are 'upgrading' to HE 12's) and had 4 small intercoolers. Space is no issue on this bugger. Has loads of it. The radiator is right up front and huge... So best cooling possible.

Fuel injection and ignition consist of 4 standalone Systems for 3 cylinder cars... Though they share a common sensor. No idea how that works, but it is awesome. No dizzy anymore.

We got into a little chit chat whilst I was pumping LPG into my XJ8 which he had mistaken for an XJ12 on X300 base, from which he 'borrowed' the 6.0l engine...

No alterations on the internals. He is running something like 0.9 bar and is having fun, as this DoKa looks like a heap of *****... As if it was a workhorse. Like they normally are

He reckons the engine is putting out something like 700 hp at the moment. If the engine dies, he doesn't care. He has a couple sitting there...

 

For a DIY hobbyist keeping the V12 alive and running sweetly isn't all that hard....nor overly expensive. You gotta be willing to deal with the (now very well documented) tricks and quirks, that's all . But, I understand that doing so is fun for some and not so fun for others. A V12 isn't for everyone, that's for sure.

One of the things about keeping hobby cars like Jags affordable is shopping around for parts. Not hard to do, and for many of us, part of the fun. In (quite literally) less than 5 minutes of Googling I came up with a $29 distributor cap, $20 rotor, and $52 vacuum advance

https://www.bpnorthwest.com/jaguar/x...cas-brand.html

SNG Barratt - Product Details

https://www.britishparts.co.uk/produ...-vacuum-JLM519

There are justifiable reasons to dislike the V12 but parts pricing and availability really isn't one of them, IMO

Cheers
DD

 

you have seen me say,"NOBODY ABSOLUTLY NEEDS A 12 CYLINDER CAR".

we have them simply because we can. they are cheap to get.

i can show you some 4cylinder cars that make over 1000hp.

there are so many around that you couldnt count them all!

and with todays modern CNC BILLET Aluminum blocks being made , an OLD antique V12 and its antiquated design ,, JEEZ , give it a break!!

BUT do have fun and enjoy yourself, also do not fool or lie to yourself about what the Jag V12 is!!??

nothing wrong with a good V8, owned dozens of them all types, supercharged, turbocharged, NITROMETHANE INJECTED, Nitros Oxide injected, Methonal ETC!!!

most were the old SBC another antique,(by todays standards). some 409, some 427s, many 454s, 426 Hemi, last monster a 502 BBC.

all it costs is money,lots of it!

may as well buy a new TESLA P100D, and be done with losing many STREET races!

 

Just like my kids, I love old Jags (and the V12s) for what they are, not for what they aren't.

I also love old muscle cars and Corvettes for what they are. And 1960s vintage USA luxury yachts. Heck, I love all cars what they are. A couple weeks ago I darn near found myself bidding on....don't laugh.... a Peugeot station wagon. I thought it was very cool and very different. I'm kicking myself for not buying it. And, you're right, I don't NEED any of them :-)

Cheers
DD

 

got it,, "boys and there toys"

 

On theme and more.


1. My back yard neighbor gave me an "older" Troy Bilt chipper shredder. The transaction commenced with my saying that I had a similar machine, but with issues. His also had issues ! Not only did he give me his, but he and his big burly pal wheeled it around the block and parked it in my drive way... And, in way so as not to block either my Jeep or Jaguar. I'll not forget that neighborliness !!!


2. They were working on their "toys". Older 4x4 GM suburbans and a p'up.


3. I had a closer look at my new toy. A Bigger and heavier version tha mine. But no AS b a weawrsio wa,










thew eer
wr we ooe w w w vwighe wifhvoe s s

 

.

Please repeat message : poor phone connection??

 

NO such "excuse" just clumsy fingers.


Bottom line. Another toy in lie for a fix.


I E mailed my son of my find. At least, he did not question my sanity.
But, "instructed" me to fix the older toy first. It is logical !!!


Carl

 

here is a quick clip of my v8 jaguar xjs

i had a ton of tune up issues that i ended up tracking down to a faulty distributor. and then after a lot of chasing my tail im back to a baseline tune up but something that isnt just random and allover the place that i can biuld from. there is easly another 60hp in this engine in its current configuration. also still has the stock tq converter. this engine will really be happier with a higher stall converter. i have one to install but the trans was a big question mark so i installed the factory converter than cam with the trans.

right now its on a baseline tune up very rich with conservative timing. also tach is not yet re calibrated so 7k indicated is about 5200 rpm


i would have been much more inclined to not swap my car if i had a v12. i felt the car really needed a lot more punch than the 6cyl had. by the time you look at what it would take to get 400hp out of a jag I6 i decided to go chevy. if the 6 was not such high compression i might have tryed to go forced induction. but when the ecm bit the dust on my car that was basically the point i decided to go v8

 

[QUOTE=kmarajh;1720441]I'm happy to see that this idea is regaining interest. Most likely due to the insane high costs of keeping the V12s alive and well. I've heard over and over that the V12 is a great engine and I agree with that from a mechanical standpoint but the lump of iron and aluminum is no good if the over complicated mess of electronics and vacuum and fuel and cooling systems that it needs to run can't be maintained. I own 2 V12's, an 88 with 67k on it and a 92 with 102k. The cost of a distributor cap and rotor for the 88 is as much as an entire rebuild kit for a small block chevy, not to mention the fact that i can't find a vacuum advance unit to buy. I'm by no means a sbc loyalist as I've only ever had 2 mixed in with the 50+ vehicles I've had the pleasure of owning and working on. I do admire the GM LS engines for their ability to make power and their efficiency when compared to other engines putting out similar power but the wiring required makes it more complicated than I care for. I bought a running and driving Buick Roadmaster wagon with the TBI 5.7 and a 700R4 for a whopping $500. I spent pretty much the same amount changing all seals and adding a cam and shift kit. The wiring is ridiculously simple even when reusing the factory Jag gauges. I sold the shell for $400 so the entire drivetrain with ECU, Harness, all accessories and driveshaft cost me $100 While the 88 still runs and drives, my plan is to install this combo and sell the factory drivetrain to someone that has the time and money to remain a purist ( PM me if any of you are interested). You can make mounts for under $100 or buy them for around $400 and the driveshaft mod is under $150 so all else is labor. I keep hearing over and over that it costs more to convert a car than to keep the V12 running well, I'm sorry but I do not understand how that could ever be true for a car that actually gets driven. Spend the time doing the conversion right up front and enjoy driving the damn car. There are some UGLY conversions out there, I won't lie. I'm also looking forward to not having to wipe up oil leaks from my garage once the V12 is out. How many converted cars are on the forums? If any in South Florida, let me know[/QUOTE

 

[QUOTE=Burger;1753619]
Well, owning a V12 isn't for everybody. I think everyone can agree on that.




Where have you been shopping? Here's a cap for $29 and a rotor for $43
.
https://www.bpnorthwest.com/jaguar/x...cas-brand.html

JAGUAR OEM 84-89 XJS 5.3L Distributor Rotor JLM9624 | eBay

Piece of cake ! Less than 90 seconds of Googling brought this.....

Jaguar V12 1981-87 OE 54405202 Lucas distributor vacuum unit | eBay




It's not all that hard to keep a V12 running at a reasonable cost....IF you do all the work yourself. If you're paying retail labor rates, all bets are off. Plus you have to be willing to learn how to work on 'em and what makes 'em tick. For a lot of us that's part of the fun. Others can't, won't, or have no desire to do so. To each his own.



I'm on my second V12 Jag and enjoy the hell out of driving 'em


Cheers
DD

 

DD, you're correct, owning a V12 isn't for everyone. I had my fair share of working on them. 3 in total before I ever bought my own. Did everything from basic tuneup to pull entire driveline and reseal. The prices I posted for the ignition parts were after shipping so we're in the same ballpark. The car will still need all the injector hoses replaced, 4 or 5 different oil leaks and as with any car thats sat for a long time, the cooling system needs work, it was fun before the days of wife and child and a 60 hr a week job. The V8 is just my taste for what I want to drive and enjoy with my limited time. Got the motor dynoed and I'm just over 344 at the crank cuz I do disagree with the conversions that ended up with 150hp 305 with carb. Ironically I haven't been working on the 88 at all, spent my long weekend working on the 92 I recently bought. Resealed the rack, pulled fuel tank to replace pump since car was falling on its face after 1500 rpm so hooked up gauge and fuel pressure was dipping into the teens. Pulling the tank was not fun but then again, not much is easy on these cars. Also did plugs, wires, coils and filters, it's the marelli system so a little different than the lucas on the 88. Will be selling 92 soon to clear space and time to start dismantling the 88.

 

344 at the crank - isn't that disappointing? If lumping the V12, I thought half the equation was more power. 500 crank or go home, I think... more like 600. I used to think 400 was a reasonable number, but Granny's Accord has 350 nowadays!

 

Yes I do.

 

Disappointing by modern sports car standards sure but the rest of the XJS cannot reliably deal with 500HP. I've seen rear cages crack at 475 wheel. Rear half shafts will break, as I've seen with the turbo LS car that tried to run at PBIR. He ended up having to fit a Ford 9" to the car which was not cheap. The bodies already flex like crazy and there's no simple way to reinforce them. I'm not trying to build a super car, just a good looking reliable cruiser on a budget. Cost is also another huge factor, I'm gonna be $5k all in with this thing, trying to aim for 500 or 600 hp is going to get expensive quick. I'll be happy to instigate if someone wants to build a beast.

 

We're getting spoiled by the power of modern cars

The V12 was rated at 262 SAE net horsepower, USA spec. About 295-300 in ROW spec.

Adding 50 hp would provide a significant and palpable increase in performance. Adding 100 hp would almost be like driving a different car.

I've long believed that the best justification for a V8 swap is easy access to a lot more power. *Personally* I'd be happy with an extra 100 hp and call it good. If I wanted more power and performance than that I'd be tempted to just go buy a 500hp car that was designed with that amount of power in mind. But, that's just me

Cheers
DD

 

I feel like we are walking thru my car life page by page Doug. I went from an 06 S type R with 400 ish crank HP to a supercharged 09 Pontiac G8 GT ( Holden Commodore HSV) that was 519 at the wheels and man was it a blast to drive. Those cars had suspension issues and the parts prices made XJS repairs look like a deal. I tried living with a lincoln LS as my only car but that lasted 6 weeks. Then I accidentally came home with an 87 Grand National that was a blast to work on and reminded me once more that you cant expect an old car to handle like a modern one.


The GN and the LS occupying driveway at the same time

 

I like this open discussion o differing points of view, all sans rancor.


Yup, if one likes the car, whatever it's warts and limitations, that is most of the fun.


Making the car to match one's desires is huge. Pride, meeting a challenge, learning, and more. That can range from making a poor running car run right as built, to a full swap. What ever got swapped in to what ever.


As to Grandma's Accord. Clearly more efficient than 25 or 30 year old designs. Heck, I recall my 94 Olds Achieva. It had it's trim flaws. But, it's little DOHC 4 was quite lively. And easy on fuel as well. But, where on the TPM scale does Grandma's Accord's 350 come in? Way up there, I suspect. Where Grandma drives ? Perhaps, or mebbe Grand son ??


A lot by chance, the LT1 in my XJwuzza 6 matches well. GM engineers are pretty smart. It was tuned to the really big and heavy Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. Max torque in relatively early. At some expanse of max HP. But, moves the not so light Jaguar with alacrity. At just under 2K rpm it cruises the freeway at circa 70. All is needed is a nudge on the pedal to move it up, fast. I've no information as to top speed. I'd love to try it, but I realize, I better not. 125 seems within reason!


Carl

 

Karmajh, pic of my GN ,

blew up two of those turbo V6 engines , second one beyond repair, split the block open.

finally put a LS2 into it along with 4L80E transmission, best thing ever.

a lot of suspension and brake mods, finally a car that handles ,stops, and drives great.