Hi all, both door mirrors on y 1993 V12 are wobbly. I've taken one off the car and it is in good shape as you can see from the picture with the spring and clip being rust free.

The mirror won't fold in which I think is the cause of the wobbliness. I have another new mirror (but it is not the right one for my car before you ask ) which works as it should and when it folds it seems to be on a spring loaded cam that takes up the slack.

So on my mirror something inside is seized I think meaning the spring isn't doing it's job.

I have been plying it with penetrating oil over the last few days but it's not budging.

It might help if I can get the mirror glass off and get in from the top but I'm worried about breaking the glass, it's £45 for new one.

Any suggestions please?

 

No help from me.... but I have the same problem, so let me know how you get on!

 

At the moment I am going to give the penetrating oil another few days to work and if it still won't budge then I'll superglue it together. That will fix the wobble but I won't be able to fold it, which isn't a big deal.

 

lambo911,

Don't superglue it! It's wobbling, not because the shaft is loose but because it's seized. I'll explain tomorrow with some text and photos as how to fix these seized shafts on XJS mirrors.

Paul

 

Great, thanks Paul.

I was taking a more detailed look at it last night with the help of my phone camera. The spring is being held in it's compressed position so I'm guessing what ever the spring presses up against is seized onto the shaft. My car was off the road and parked outside for quite a few years before I had it and I suspect it was parked with the mirrors folded back with the springs compressed.

 

Looking forward to seeing the solution too as my right one wobbles! I didn't realize that they folded either. Maybe both of mine are frozen.

 

So, here’s a way that you can try and fix your wobbly XJS mirrors…..

For some years I had a bit of play in the body to mount of my facelift door mirrors. I'd always presumed that the collars had seized to the shaft, so I hadn't tried to fold them back since this happened, but now decided that I wanted to sort them.

I started asking every owner & dealer how to fix the problem. Everyone told me it was just wear and they couldn’t be fixed. So, with apparently nothing to lose, I decided to see what I could do myself.

I removed the passenger side mirror and replaced it with a spare one and started examining the worn mirror. Naturally the first job was to remove the castellated / serrated spring clip, known as a “starlock washer”. I was reluctant to cut it off until I knew that I could replace it. I also assumed that if the lower collar was seized then I might have to replace that part as well. At this point, I wasn’t sure how it all fitted together.




However, I then had quite a bit of luck! Judicious use of 2 screwdrivers and some protective rag and I was able to persuade the serrated spring retaining washer to let go intact. With the spring then removed, I could see how the spring seating tube was stuck on the mirror shaft.








I sealed the bottom edge of the tube with blutac (type of plasticine) and then made a well of anti-corrosion lubricant and left it for a few hours. After an hour of wiggling the mirror mounting base against the tube, incredibly I eventually managed to get the tube free of the mirror shaft.






With the tube and the shaft cleaned and lubricated, I could now fit it all together.





But, I had one big problem. How do I compress the spring and drift the serrated washer back onto the shaft?

To be continued...………………..

 

The mirror saga continues...….


I didn't really want to clamp the mirror in a vice. So I did the usual thing of staring around the garage aimlessly thinking that I must have the equivalent of an open-walled socket or similar that I could use to drift the washer onto the shaft.

I left it for the night trying to think of what I could use. If only I could remember where I put that tool for removing brake shoe springs.

It's only a 3.5 coil spring so you can't compress just the middle bit. I'd already tried compressing and wiring the whole thing but the wires then fouled on the mount so I couldn't fit the spring

I thought that I’d just have to clamp the mirror carefully and grind a wall section out of a piece of tubing and then try and drift the washer on (assuming it didn't bend and snap anyway!).

The basic difficulty is that you can't get to the top or bottom of the spring - ie it has to sit in the well of the mirror mount and you have to drift the washer on to the top of it.

After another day of staring at random tools around the garage I tried to lockwire it, position it, get the washer started on the mirror shaft, cut the wire and release the spring and then drift the washer further down the shaft. Well that didn’t work.



I was now intrigued as to how it was originally done in the factory. I guess they wired the electric plugs on after the washer was fitted which would make the process easier.

So, after a few days of various futile efforts to try and refit the spring and washer on the mirror shaft, I was getting quite stumped! I had tried lockwiring the spring and then trying to tap the washer on to the shaft. That didn't work and I realised that I wouldn't be able to remove the lockwire from under the washer. I then tried lockwiring the spring and washer together and then fitting it. That didn't work either. So, I resorted to my late father's traditional approach, which was to walk around the garage, picking up odd tools and finally finding an answer!



I realised that I was going to have to remove the larger of the two wiring plugs or else cut a groove in the wall of a tube or similar in order to drift on the washer. After a bit of fiddling around, I worked out how to remove the wires from the bigger of the two wiring plugs. I then happened to look up at one of my tool boards and eureka! - there was the answer!

My trusty valve spring compressor (which I know that I hadn't used since I burnt a valve on a Morris Marina 1.8TC in 1985!) looked as if it might be a suitable tool.




With some rubber taped to the mirror body to protect it and a number of false starts, I eventually managed to use the compressor to get the washer and spring pressed over the shaft. Once it was started, I then carefully used some pressure and got the washer far enough down to sit in the slight groove in the shaft.









Nearly finished...………...

 

I finally got there...………...


I then refitted the mirror to the car using a new wiring grommet on the door (there was not one originally fitted on my car).

The wiring plugs were then pulled through the door using the Jaguar Service Manual recommended technique of a piece of string (it's true!).






With the mirror finally re-fitted, it now operated as Jaguar intended and could fold.

A good coating of anti-corrosion metal spray and lubricant is now in place. Interestingly, I opened the box of a pair of brand-new still-labelled pre-facelift mirrors that I've had for some years. There doesn't seem to be any lubrication at all when they are assembled in the factory. They are dated March 1990 and they both turned perfectly on the shaft.

Thinking about the construction, I reckon the spring and washer were originally installed before the mirror motor, wiring and glass were fitted. That way, one could get directly to the back of the shaft to clamp it all in place.

The mirrors do actually fold both ways. However, there are only three "cutout" positions, including the one that mirror sits in for normal use. If you look at one of the earlier pics, you can just see 2 of the 3 the raised nibs on the mirror mount which lock into the cutout positions.



The design flaw is that you can turn the mirror in towards the door, but it can't turn far enough to get to the next cutout position before it hits the door glass. If you left it in that position, it would just "rock" back under spring tension to its normal position. Strange design. So, you have to fold them towards the front of the car in order to get them to a cutout position where they can lock.



So, what did I learn?

- You have to regularly fold the mirrors if the collar is not to eventually seize on the shaft

- If you have play in the mirror, then the collar is seized

- If you don't have play, there is still a very strong possibility that the collar is seized! Don't force the mirror to fold or you will break it

- You might be lucky and be able to remove the washer without destroying it, but if not, you can buy new starlock washers anyway

- If you've got a bit of play in the mirror, you've probably got more chance of freeing off the collar once the spring and washer are dismantled

- It's difficult, but possible, to refit the spring and washer

- New door grommets are still available

- Take the wiring plugs off their location bars before unplugging them

- Attach some string to the wiring plugs to thread through the door when you remove the wiring plugs on facelift cars to remove the mirror. Leave the string in place on the car, then fix it to the plugs to pull them back through to refit. Otherwise it's a real pain to refit them.

- The mirrors should be folded forwards, not backwards!



I hope that all of this helps someone.

Cheers

Paul

 

Thank you very much Paul for taking the time to post your findings.

The biggest challenge is obviously getting the spring and washer back on! I am wondering if I just try the bluetac and the well of penetrating oil first I might be able to free it up without taking the spring off. Worth a go I guess?

 

Thanks for your comments.

The difficulty is that the spring exerts a considerable force. So, when you try and turn the mirror with the spring in situ off the car, you have to use quite a lot of force. And if the shaft is still seized, you don't really know if you're applying force against the spring or the shaft. You could easily snap the mirror in overcoming the spring force against a seized shaft.

Try it carefully, but I suspect you're going to end up doing what I did!

Cheers

Paul

 

Stupid question...….So all the mirrors should fold ? mine has never from new, or im to scared to push it hard.

 

malc4d,

Yes. All XJS mirrors fold. (Or at least they will if they are not seized!) I know an owner who took his wobbling mirror car to a dealer and said it wouldn't fold. They folded it backward and snapped the shaft, then told him that he had non-folding mirrors!! Needless to say, he made them pay for a new mirror!

Paul

 

My mirrors used to fold....until they didn’t. I snapped the original one trying to bend it in place. The replacement mirror I bought on eBay was seized as well.

Truly outstanding post. I do not have your tool, therefore I won’t be attempting to follow in your footsteps...but it’s fantastic to know that I could. I didn’t think it was possible.

 

My mirror is now unstuck and the wobble has gone.

I used the bluetac and well of penetrating fluid and I let that soak in for 2 days.

I had to give the sping a couple of taps at its base then a bit of twisting and it came free!

Paul's pictures were invaluable in showing the collar the spring sits in so I could understand what I was up against. Cheers Paul

I now need to do the passenger side one.

 

Hi Paul,

Thanks I went to see if my mirrors folded back and they did with no effort...... then....it was loose as a goose!



Looks like the washer has broken and the spring has come loose.
So I need to fix it!

 

I have unscrewed the mirror and yes the star washer has let go.
Now i need to unplug the mirror, which means removing the door card i assume?
Looking at your pictures Paul that is what you have done.

How easy are they to remove? Having never done this before!
Also plan to lube the other side, even though it fold nicely.

 

Hello Dukejag

On mine - I did not have to remove the door trim, but I do not have a rear view mirror on the passenger side.

Undo these 2 little screws to remove the fascia

Little allen screw, undo these and the fascia is removed completely



Then 2 screws on the outer door and the mirror came out

Presuming the passenger side is similar

If you have to remove the door trim, it is not difficult - you just have to be careful undoing the bolt that is under the top of the arm rest mount, as the edges of that chrome piece is sharp

Cheers
Steve

 

Thanks Steve, yours looks to have a cable operated mirror while mine are motor driven. It looks like some one has used black silicon to secure the mirror.
There are also small holes under the mirror where the PO has tried to wire the mirror and mount together.

I am going to try and fix it properly thanks to Paul's threads...I found some of your old ones.

 

Hello Dukejag

Yep - mine is cable operated - could not figure out how your passenger side mirror worked. All makes sense now

Cheers
Steve