Intake and valve cover removal, cleaning, improving?
#1
08-09-2014, 09:44 AM
Intake and valve cover removal, cleaning, improving?
Hi!
I'm currently doing my water rails on the V12 and now decided: while I'm at it, I'll do the intakes and remove the valve covers (seems to be leaking a tad around it).
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice?
Either 12x C43354 or 2x NNA3020BA ? I can't seem to find any other differences, apart from NNA... being available new still...
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...
Either C29428 (right) and C29429 (left) or EBC9627 (right) and EBC9628 (right) ?
What are the differences? I can't seem to find any other "difference" apart from the EBC numbers not being available from Jaguar anymore... SNG has them.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor (pipe from filter to distributor and then from distributor to extra air valve, the seals on the intakes, the fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes and the half moons. The bushs of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time.
Anything else worth doing?
Cheers
Damien
I'm currently doing my water rails on the V12 and now decided: while I'm at it, I'll do the intakes and remove the valve covers (seems to be leaking a tad around it).
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice?
Either 12x C43354 or 2x NNA3020BA ? I can't seem to find any other differences, apart from NNA... being available new still...
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...
Either C29428 (right) and C29429 (left) or EBC9627 (right) and EBC9628 (right) ?
What are the differences? I can't seem to find any other "difference" apart from the EBC numbers not being available from Jaguar anymore... SNG has them.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor (pipe from filter to distributor and then from distributor to extra air valve, the seals on the intakes, the fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes and the half moons. The bushs of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time.
Anything else worth doing?
Cheers
Damien
#2
08-10-2014, 07:13 AM
#3
08-10-2014, 08:00 AM
Veteran Member
I'm currently doing my water rails on the V12 and now decided: while I'm at it, I'll do the intakes and remove the valve covers (seems to be leaking a tad around it).
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
Cam cover gaskets, half moon seals, and as per the Great Palm slightly longer bolts on cam covers and spring washers and round washers, oil pressure and warning light sender sensors as they leak, carefully renew cam oilfeed copper washers but DO NOT overtighten. There is a great guy in the USA called Ron Kelnhofer and he makes better cam feed bolts; ditto ally half moons - really worthwhile. Also he may have an ally timing chain tensioner access hole cover in stock, This replaces the rubber bung above the A bank side of the water pump casting that leaks terribly.
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice? Full bank much easier to fit and to take off and replace;
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...Buy the latest OEM Gortex type from Jaguar, MUCH better sealing than the old type. The gasket each side is different.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor Yes, replace with high temp silicone hose
the seals on the intakes, What are these?
The fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes Yes, very important also have the injectors cleaned
The bushes of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time. If they have gone home, replace them.
Anything else worth doing? Replace fuel injector harness, it will be brittle and half shot, fix it on the fuel rail rather than the bottom of the V.
Hope this helps. When you get to thinking about the bottom of the engine, post again!
Greg
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
Cam cover gaskets, half moon seals, and as per the Great Palm slightly longer bolts on cam covers and spring washers and round washers, oil pressure and warning light sender sensors as they leak, carefully renew cam oilfeed copper washers but DO NOT overtighten. There is a great guy in the USA called Ron Kelnhofer and he makes better cam feed bolts; ditto ally half moons - really worthwhile. Also he may have an ally timing chain tensioner access hole cover in stock, This replaces the rubber bung above the A bank side of the water pump casting that leaks terribly.
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice? Full bank much easier to fit and to take off and replace;
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...Buy the latest OEM Gortex type from Jaguar, MUCH better sealing than the old type. The gasket each side is different.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor Yes, replace with high temp silicone hose
the seals on the intakes, What are these?
The fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes Yes, very important also have the injectors cleaned
The bushes of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time. If they have gone home, replace them.
Anything else worth doing? Replace fuel injector harness, it will be brittle and half shot, fix it on the fuel rail rather than the bottom of the V.
Hope this helps. When you get to thinking about the bottom of the engine, post again!
Greg
The following 2 users liked this post by Greg in France:
Daim (08-10-2014),
orangeblossom (08-10-2014)
#4
08-10-2014, 08:08 AM
As you have listed, such as half moons, fuel hoses, injector lower seals, all make perfect sense.
The valve cover gaskets of the later number are, I think, the newer spec Gortex style, and are the ONLY ones to use.
The inlet gaskets gets messy, as originally they were 12 pieces, then 1 piece per side, and Pink in colour, then back to 12 again. Sooooo, basically whatever you can get will do the task. The Pink did have an issue with "setlling", and retightening the inlet nuts after a few hours of running was required.
If you use the rubber half moons, I do, you should put a layer of Hi Temp RTV on them as a sealer. Some get the alloy replacements, and it is a personal decision, but I have had no issues with the rubber with the RTV, in all the engines I have dealt with.
The valve cover gaskets of the later number are, I think, the newer spec Gortex style, and are the ONLY ones to use.
The inlet gaskets gets messy, as originally they were 12 pieces, then 1 piece per side, and Pink in colour, then back to 12 again. Sooooo, basically whatever you can get will do the task. The Pink did have an issue with "setlling", and retightening the inlet nuts after a few hours of running was required.
If you use the rubber half moons, I do, you should put a layer of Hi Temp RTV on them as a sealer. Some get the alloy replacements, and it is a personal decision, but I have had no issues with the rubber with the RTV, in all the engines I have dealt with.
The following users liked this post:
Daim (08-10-2014)
#5
08-10-2014, 08:44 AM
I'm currently doing my water rails on the V12 and now decided: while I'm at it, I'll do the intakes and remove the valve covers (seems to be leaking a tad around it).
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
Cam cover gaskets, half moon seals, and as per the Great Palm slightly longer bolts on cam covers and spring washers and round washers, oil pressure and warning light sender sensors as they leak, carefully renew cam oilfeed copper washers but DO NOT overtighten. There is a great guy in the USA called Ron Kelnhofer and he makes better cam feed bolts; ditto ally half moons - really worthwhile. Also he may have an ally timing chain tensioner access hole cover in stock, This replaces the rubber bung above the A bank side of the water pump casting that leaks terribly.
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice? Full bank much easier to fit and to take off and replace;
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...Buy the latest OEM Gortex type from Jaguar, MUCH better sealing than the old type. The gasket each side is different.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor Yes, replace with high temp silicone hose
the seals on the intakes, What are these?
The fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes Yes, very important also have the injectors cleaned
The bushes of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time. If they have gone home, replace them.
Anything else worth doing? Replace fuel injector harness, it will be brittle and half shot, fix it on the fuel rail rather than the bottom of the V.
Hope this helps. When you get to thinking about the bottom of the engine, post again!
Greg
What parts would be clever to replace at the same time?
Cam cover gaskets, half moon seals, and as per the Great Palm slightly longer bolts on cam covers and spring washers and round washers, oil pressure and warning light sender sensors as they leak, carefully renew cam oilfeed copper washers but DO NOT overtighten. There is a great guy in the USA called Ron Kelnhofer and he makes better cam feed bolts; ditto ally half moons - really worthwhile. Also he may have an ally timing chain tensioner access hole cover in stock, This replaces the rubber bung above the A bank side of the water pump casting that leaks terribly.
The intakes seems to have two different possible seals... Either a "full bank" one which includes all 6 cylinders or seperate ones for a port at a time. What gasket/seal version is the better choice? Full bank much easier to fit and to take off and replace;
At the same time, the valve covers have two different gaskets possible...Buy the latest OEM Gortex type from Jaguar, MUCH better sealing than the old type. The gasket each side is different.
What over parts would be clever to replace at the same time? I was thinking the hoses for the Marelli distributor Yes, replace with high temp silicone hose
the seals on the intakes, What are these?
The fuel hoses from rail to injectors, the seals between injectors and intakes Yes, very important also have the injectors cleaned
The bushes of the throttle bodies were supposed to be done at the same time. If they have gone home, replace them.
Anything else worth doing? Replace fuel injector harness, it will be brittle and half shot, fix it on the fuel rail rather than the bottom of the V.
Hope this helps. When you get to thinking about the bottom of the engine, post again!
Greg
thanks for your replies. The fuel injector harness is on my "to do" list, as I already have all parts, but I didn't fancy taking the entire top off twice to do... So I'll be doing that at the same time. My idea was also using the injector rail as a base for it... Instead of in the "unknown" between the V.
Regarding the camshaft bolts/banjo bolts... Do you mean these?
Jaguar Engine Banjo Bolts
What longer bolts do you mean and how are they supposed to improve?
The intake seals I was writting about are the ones on the ends of the intake manifolds (where vacuum hoses and balance pipes are mounted).
Injector cleaning - is it enough to have them cleaned via ultra sound or do you mean checking the injection pattern, etc.?
Bottom of the engine will come (sometime)
Probably when I remove the front subframe to get that sandblasted and powder coated in a few years time 
Cheers!
Damien
#6
08-10-2014, 08:46 AM
As you have listed, such as half moons, fuel hoses, injector lower seals, all make perfect sense.
The valve cover gaskets of the later number are, I think, the newer spec Gortex style, and are the ONLY ones to use.
The inlet gaskets gets messy, as originally they were 12 pieces, then 1 piece per side, and Pink in colour, then back to 12 again. Sooooo, basically whatever you can get will do the task. The Pink did have an issue with "setlling", and retightening the inlet nuts after a few hours of running was required.
If you use the rubber half moons, I do, you should put a layer of Hi Temp RTV on them as a sealer. Some get the alloy replacements, and it is a personal decision, but I have had no issues with the rubber with the RTV, in all the engines I have dealt with.
The valve cover gaskets of the later number are, I think, the newer spec Gortex style, and are the ONLY ones to use.
The inlet gaskets gets messy, as originally they were 12 pieces, then 1 piece per side, and Pink in colour, then back to 12 again. Sooooo, basically whatever you can get will do the task. The Pink did have an issue with "setlling", and retightening the inlet nuts after a few hours of running was required.
If you use the rubber half moons, I do, you should put a layer of Hi Temp RTV on them as a sealer. Some get the alloy replacements, and it is a personal decision, but I have had no issues with the rubber with the RTV, in all the engines I have dealt with.
thanks for your answer. The intake gaskets do seem a little weird, as my B bank has ONE large "pinky" one, the A bank has 6 seperate ones... Clearly seen as the connectors between the gaskets are missing...
The Gortec gaskets sound a little more durable... Last thing I want is to work on the engine, replace gaskets and seals and find out a few days later, that they leak - again.
The alloy/rubber halfmoon seals... I don't quite get why aluminium or rubber...!? The alloy ones have a rubber strip around them too - so that would require replacing as well - sometime!?
'gards
Damien
#7
08-10-2014, 10:00 AM
Veteran Member
Daim
Yes, they are the ones in your link. They are a little bit longer than the OEM ones and thus use all the threaded thickness available on the casting, so are less likely to strip threads, but CARE is required !
About the half moons, I do not know if Ron Kelhofer still makes them, but Grant's advice is always top, so I think it is a 'look' thing. When I did mine I did not know about Grant's hi-temp RTV wheeze. As to eventual failure, I believe I recall that the ally half moons have their rubber strip sealer made from Viton which is just about everlasting and resists heat etc etc, I understand.
Ultrasound cleaning will be fine I think, theses guys usually check the pattern as well anyway, to make sure the injector is functioning properly after the cleaning process. Pick attached of Kelnhofer half moons/banjo bolts and tensioner plug FYI. If you look carefully at the cam cover fixing bolts, they protrude though the casting a bit, and are fitted with a flat washers and a spring washer. The OEM ones are not long enough to do this, I actually used Allen key headed bolts. The idea (Great Palm) is to clamp the cam cover a bit more securely, thus avoiding later leaks. This has worked very well for me over the last 3 years.
Greg
Yes, they are the ones in your link. They are a little bit longer than the OEM ones and thus use all the threaded thickness available on the casting, so are less likely to strip threads, but CARE is required !
About the half moons, I do not know if Ron Kelhofer still makes them, but Grant's advice is always top, so I think it is a 'look' thing. When I did mine I did not know about Grant's hi-temp RTV wheeze. As to eventual failure, I believe I recall that the ally half moons have their rubber strip sealer made from Viton which is just about everlasting and resists heat etc etc, I understand.
Ultrasound cleaning will be fine I think, theses guys usually check the pattern as well anyway, to make sure the injector is functioning properly after the cleaning process. Pick attached of Kelnhofer half moons/banjo bolts and tensioner plug FYI. If you look carefully at the cam cover fixing bolts, they protrude though the casting a bit, and are fitted with a flat washers and a spring washer. The OEM ones are not long enough to do this, I actually used Allen key headed bolts. The idea (Great Palm) is to clamp the cam cover a bit more securely, thus avoiding later leaks. This has worked very well for me over the last 3 years.
Greg
The following users liked this post:
Daim (08-10-2014)
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#8
08-10-2014, 10:12 AM
Cheers Greg!
Okay, the idea of the aluminimum halfmoons seems quite good... Probably a "one time fit and forget" item. Like all rubber, the rubber halfmoons will probably go brittle some time and then leak like hell...
Are the valve cover screws metric or imperial? I'm a torx fan (my Volvo is made entirely of torx screws) so replacing them with some torx screws would be my favorite...
The different screws (banjos) make more sense now. That is a good tip. And replacing the sensors on the same brass piping is probably the best thing whilst I'm at it.
The front plug for the tensioner, is that somehow screwed? How easy is it to remove (incase of removing the cams etc.) later? Looks like I would need to remove more parts to get to the plug in the first place!?
Thanks
Damien
Okay, the idea of the aluminimum halfmoons seems quite good... Probably a "one time fit and forget" item. Like all rubber, the rubber halfmoons will probably go brittle some time and then leak like hell...
Are the valve cover screws metric or imperial? I'm a torx fan (my Volvo is made entirely of torx screws) so replacing them with some torx screws would be my favorite...
The different screws (banjos) make more sense now. That is a good tip. And replacing the sensors on the same brass piping is probably the best thing whilst I'm at it.
The front plug for the tensioner, is that somehow screwed? How easy is it to remove (incase of removing the cams etc.) later? Looks like I would need to remove more parts to get to the plug in the first place!?
Thanks
Damien
#9
08-10-2014, 10:40 AM
Veteran Member
Are the valve cover screws metric or imperial? I'm a torx fan (my Volvo is made entirely of torx screws) so replacing them with some torx screws would be my favorite...
Best to take a screw from your car and get it matched. They vary, my entire engine was a mix of metric and imperial.
The front plug for the tensioner, is that somehow screwed? How easy is it to remove (incase of removing the cams etc.) later? Looks like I would need to remove more parts to get to the plug in the first place!?
The plug and its sealing ring pushes in and one of the holes you can see in it has a little Allen key activated locking device. As I said, whether Ron still makes these or not I do not know, but a very obliging and good bloke IME.
Greg
Best to take a screw from your car and get it matched. They vary, my entire engine was a mix of metric and imperial.
The front plug for the tensioner, is that somehow screwed? How easy is it to remove (incase of removing the cams etc.) later? Looks like I would need to remove more parts to get to the plug in the first place!?
The plug and its sealing ring pushes in and one of the holes you can see in it has a little Allen key activated locking device. As I said, whether Ron still makes these or not I do not know, but a very obliging and good bloke IME.
Greg
The following users liked this post:
Daim (08-10-2014)
#10
08-20-2014, 03:20 PM
Okay, right, drag this up again...
The parts are supposed to arrive tomorrow. So I'll be taking some parts off soon. I just noticed, that I'll be needing some new gaskets (end seals) for the intake manifolds. Oddly, there seems to be a few 'weird' answers regarding the fitment. Some parts suppliers say the end gasket is the same front and back of the intake manifolds (the triangular end covers with the vacume/balance pipe connectors) where as others say they are totally different.
What is right? Jaguar states about 4 different numbers... Depending on age and engine number, some are front and rear the same and some aren't... Can someone shed some light on this!?
Cheers
Damien
The parts are supposed to arrive tomorrow. So I'll be taking some parts off soon. I just noticed, that I'll be needing some new gaskets (end seals) for the intake manifolds. Oddly, there seems to be a few 'weird' answers regarding the fitment. Some parts suppliers say the end gasket is the same front and back of the intake manifolds (the triangular end covers with the vacume/balance pipe connectors) where as others say they are totally different.
What is right? Jaguar states about 4 different numbers... Depending on age and engine number, some are front and rear the same and some aren't... Can someone shed some light on this!?
Cheers
Damien
#11
08-21-2014, 01:13 PM
Okay, right, drag this up again...
The parts are supposed to arrive tomorrow. So I'll be taking some parts off soon. I just noticed, that I'll be needing some new gaskets (end seals) for the intake manifolds. Oddly, there seems to be a few 'weird' answers regarding the fitment. Some parts suppliers say the end gasket is the same front and back of the intake manifolds (the triangular end covers with the vacume/balance pipe connectors) where as others say they are totally different.
What is right? Jaguar states about 4 different numbers... Depending on age and engine number, some are front and rear the same and some aren't... Can someone shed some light on this!?
Cheers
Damien
The parts are supposed to arrive tomorrow. So I'll be taking some parts off soon. I just noticed, that I'll be needing some new gaskets (end seals) for the intake manifolds. Oddly, there seems to be a few 'weird' answers regarding the fitment. Some parts suppliers say the end gasket is the same front and back of the intake manifolds (the triangular end covers with the vacume/balance pipe connectors) where as others say they are totally different.
What is right? Jaguar states about 4 different numbers... Depending on age and engine number, some are front and rear the same and some aren't... Can someone shed some light on this!?
Cheers
Damien
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