Having a nightmare with this car..5.3 v12 1987

​​​​​​I hace recently posted about rough running after replaced injectors. So after trying everything else I rebuilt the injector harness.
So on the day I was going to fit it. I started the car with old injector harness in and whilst it was rough as anything it did start.
As well as replacing the harness I thought I would first compression check the engine. Took first plug out and took the main ht lead out of cap and also lifted the inertia switch to stop fuel. I then went to start car with compression tester in. And I just got a click which was the starter solenoid and nothing else.
After thinking battery had died and tried with jump pack I thought I would see if I could turn the crank by hand. It won't budge a millimeter in either direction even with force.

I have taken all the plugs out no joy. I then took off manifolds and rocker covers. Couldnt see down manifold inlets any damiaged rods. So I released the cams enough so that they are not touching the tops of the rods therefore any bent ones won't be in play and it still won't turn.

​​​​​​I have fired the starter solenoid with a spare battery and it clicks so I assume its not stuck in the flywheel.
What I want to ask is if I drop the sump cover off the gear box would I be able to see from there if its somehow got stuck in gear? (auto box).

​​​​​To get the starter motor off do I have to drop the front sub frame to get exauhst bolts?

Or any other suggestions would be great.. It hasn't been run hot without oil and started 2 mins before siezed so I just can't see how it would not move at all either direction. Also put oil into the plug holes to let soak just to in case.

 

silly question did you reset the inertia solenoid? i think it shuts off more than just the fuel pump.. i could be wrong though
also because the starter solenoid clicks does not mean it is not engaged.. have you tried to just jump the stater and see if it will spin?

 

should be able to turn crank from front pulley, with a socket and bar!
from under car, even a little turn will help!
ron

 

You will not see anything by removing the transmission pan. However, if you remove the torque converter/flywheel cover, you will be able to see the starter gears, and be able to use a pry bar to try to turn the engine, and apply a lot more force than by turning the crankshaft bolt. . If at all possible, do not turn the engine backward, it is very hard on the timing chain tensioner.

 

I am with the tin flywheel cover and a pry bar.

ONLY in the correct direction.

The fact it ran, you shut it down, and then tried again, and its jammed, is starter motor for some bizzare reason.

If it were the chain etc, the crank would move, SLIGHTLY, until the chain slack got taken up.

Pistons stuck in the bore, hardly, as it ran a few minutes prior.

You have the plugs out, and no sign of liquid to cause a hydraulic.

Alex, not sure where you are, you dont say.
Starter R & R on RHD, about 20 beers, and many, many odd words.

LHD, should be easier, as the steering pinion etc is on the other side, but I have never had the pleasure.

If its got Cats (we did not in that year), the 20 just went to 40.

 

Yes I tried it with it reset, although because of the issues I had before I know it will crank with it up.

 

Yes I tried it reset, although due to the other issues I had I know it cranks up

Yea pry bar on there will not budge a millimeter!!

Great thanks that's saved me some trouble.

I agree with what you say about chain etc. Even if somehow I did damage a piston you would think it would move ever so slightly.
I am in Surrey England so unfortunately I have the 20 beers and lots of odd words job to do!! 🙄😁I would have thought with starter though if you rotated the crank backwards just a little bit it would release.

Well transmission pan removal it is then. I might just throw in a few choice words for the hell of it!! 😏

 

[

 

Alex
NOT the transmission sump pan.
Just the black tin cover over the join between the gearbox and the engine!

 

Thanks Greg that was a mistake I didn't mean to say sump pan. That's what I was originally going to drop until you guys said otherwise i meant to transmission cover. When you describe it as a black tin cover it hopefully it means the choice words won't be needed to get it off. I'm running out of choice words and fingers tto bash or cut at the moment. 🙄🙄

 

Alex,

Greg is right and clarified as only Greg can.

One of my PreHE would do what you have, and I always carried a breaker bar and socket in the boot, and simply reached down and rotated the CORECT way, and the starter would "ching" out of mesh, and away it would go till next time.

The fact you are LOCKED up, sounds more serious, but still heading for starter.

Maybe a BFH and give a "love tap", ya never know.

 

Yes love tap has been tried,. As someone suggested on here to try and spin starter motor with false feed. Looking at the starter from underneath. I put a posi cable on the posi bolt that sticks out of the side of the of the larger section of the starter with a thick wire on it and it clicked when earthed so that was soleniod I was surprised as I thought that would be the motor posi the larger section is the motor? So is the motor posi right up the top on the back of the smaller part of the starter? in which case I can't seem to get to it properly and there looks like there is a cover or something over the stud so can't touch the stud.

 

The "smaller" thing is the Solenoid.

The TOP stud is the battery feed, as in 12V HOT direct from the battery post on the RH side of the firewall.
The Lower stud ON the smaller thing, is the battery feed TO the starter WHEN the solenoid closes/meshes, and the 12V passes through that small thing end plate.

If you are applying 12V to the lower stud, and getting a click, then I think the starter will need to come out and be sorted. Something has jammed.

 

One question though if it is meshed in there good as when I tried backing off it didn't come out. Can I loosen the starter of without having to remove exhaust. I don't want to take it out as yet I just want to see if I can get to the bolts to loosen it and allow the wheel to move back?

 

YES.

The top bolts is from the transmission side, and way up top, and a 7/16 A/F 12 point socket only. An extention bar, uni joint adaptor, LOTS of words, and you will FEEL the way to it.

The lower bolt is simple.

Loosen the starter, and wiggle the mongrel around, and see what happens.

The starter WILL come out with the exhaust in place, mine did, as the exhaust would NOT come out of the manifolds. NOT easy, but it will find its way, and gravity helps, and keep the fingers clear coz it is heavier than you think.

 

Great thank you that at least has given me some good news as it looked like a pig to get to exhaust manifold bolts.

I think my neighbours are starting to think I have tourettes already!! 😂

 

Alex,

I'm in Kent and I can hear your Tourettes from here!!

If it all gets too much, you could trailer it up to Ray at Surrey Jag Centre, who I'm sure would be able to get it sorted eventually.

Good luck

Paul

 

[QUOTE=ptjs1;2341280]Alex,

I'm in Kent and I can hear your Tourettes from here!!

If it all gets too much, you could trailer it up to Ray at Surrey Jag Centre, who I'm sure would be able to get it sorted eventually.

Ha ha yes even more so now that I have taken off the transmission cover and can clearly see the starter gear is not engaged.

I am not sure how I get a bar in there to turn it like was mentioned doesn't look there is anywhere I can force it on.

Thanks I had not heard of him I will look him up as that may be what I have to do.. Mates just lent me an endoscope so down the plug holes I shall go!!

 

Alex,

The whole thing does sound very strange for the engine to seize after it was turned off. It's baffling.

Ray Brown at Surrey Jag Centre is very good and extremely knowledgeable. He was a Master Technician at Jaguar before he set up his own business. One of the only external places I would use for my XJS. Maybe give him a ring first and see if he's got any ideas you can try? Tell him that I sent you.

Good luck

Paul Sinnott

 

BUGGA.

I would still be releasing that starter motor, as in unbolt it, slide it forward and let it sit up there.

Then, try and rotate the engine.

IF, no rotate, then at least the starter is OFF the list.

Only other item I can think of that would LOCK up that engine as described, is the oil pump drive gear shattering and actually jamming the oil pump. Since that pump is over the snoout of the crankshaft, it would lock up the engine as you say.

Chances, RARE, as in almost not heard of, and for that to happen as per your original scribe is even less likely.