I've been "infected" with Jaguaritis. I have a 2000XKR Coupe (love it). I'm building the 65 S-Type Jagrod (altered wheelbase 2 door coupe...see my threads). And now I need my head examined as I may buy a beautiful white, tan top and interior convertible, V-12, 70K miles. The paint, interior and hood is a 8 or 9 on a 10 scale. The price is 1/2 of the going rate...$5,000. The catch...It's not running. The guy drove to the All British car show in Winter Park, FL (A great show BTW) 2 years ago. When he went to leave it wouldn't start. The problem is ignition...no spark. He's replaced both Ignition amplifiers and coils. He bought a new ECU but hasn't installed it yet. I asked if he changed the Marelli Ignition Cap and Rotor. He said no cause he pulled the cap and it "looked okay". I've been reading the Excellent "Sticky" on No Start HE V-12. AND the Main problem with the Marelli Ignition is the Rotor grounding out on the distributor shaft. So I am VERY Tempted to buy another Jag. If it's the rotor...well I may get a car worth $8-12.5K for $5K. If it's not the rotor, maybe it's something simple. I can't believe it's "major engine damage" as it was running fine. Oh yeah, he also said it was only running on one bank when he got it towed home and tried again....a "Sure sign" OF A BAD ROTOR? Been sitting for 2 years so will the 10% ethanol we have here, have gummed up the injectors by now?...Hopefully not too bad. What do you guys think....Go For It?

 

Redoing the entire ignition system from plugs to ignition amps would be fairly cheap and easy, I'd go down to walmart and grab a few bottles of Techron concentrate (as I see your in Florida) and some Archoil 9100 from a distro to give the engine a spa-day like treatment. Should be fine.

It could be a bad plug anywhere along the maze to, Delphi 12162144 for metripack 150 series is what I had to replace when one wire broke sortof inside the plug and would jiggle away causing half the engine to stop while driving.

New ECU is worth a couple hundred, maybe offer him 4400 cash? as long as your repair budget is under the current selling price you'll be fine from a sunk cost perspective, but I find that perspective quickly goes out the window when falling in love with a Jag.

TLDR; DO IIIIT

 

One or both of the crank position sensors? Test for 12 volts into the ignition system?

 

Second that, better to replace both anyway for a clean slate, but he says previous owner claims it ran on one bank when towed? If I recall a failed sensor is 100% no-start and if failing while driving it'll chug abit then cut out entirely...on the highway 5 minutes from the house.

 

He is a little sketchy on the details of how it ran on one bank before the complete shutdown...intermittent I guess. Then it shut down, had it towed home. After that I'm not sure if it fired on one bank or not. I'm not afraid of electrical issues; just a matter of patiently finding the problem. This Forum is a God-sent...I wouldn't buy it it without the knowledge base available here. Thanks ever so much.

 

Hi Fla Steve

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the Resistor Pack, which is a smallish Silver Box down by the Headlamp Nacelle, which has a plug and Socket

And if the Pins on that Plug and Socket are not really clean, then it can play havoc with the Firing of the Injectors (which was a tip I got from 'Greg')

So best to take that Resistor Pack out and give that Plug and Socket a really good clean





Make sure the Plug and Socket on the Resistor Pack are nice and clean

 

So I bought it for $5,000. Turns out it's a 1990 (11/89 build date). I know the previous owner and the guy I bought it from. It had a new hood (soft top) 3 years ago; coincidentally, to the tune of $5K. The front seats were recovered $1,500. So right there it's a win win for me. And Now the Trouble Shooting begins...no spark. It's kind of boxed in where it's stored so it will be a few days before I can have towed and take photos. Question: per the "No Start" article I should get a spark from the HT lead coming from a coil to a grounded spark plug. Is that correct? I verified +12vdc at the coils with key switched on.
Oh forgot to mention; I also got a copy of the 8 Volume set of the official Jaguar Service Manual with wiring diagrams etc....YAY. ...now to get it running.

 

Great!

Now the fun begins. Also can I pay you to scan & upload the manual?

 

Vancouverxj6.....Boy that's a tall order as there must be 600 or more pages. Not saying No, just not right away. Maybe there's a way to add it to this forum?

 

Maybe a store or copy/office place could do high quality scans to .pdf, it would be priceless to us but as I said...I'll pay. Maybe after this 'new' car is running right

 

Fla Steve Follow the No Start of HE v12 to the letter, and you'll find it! Mine was a broken wire to the distributor. Good Luck.

Jack

 

I'm confused though. Mine is a 90 with Marrelli Ign. There aren't any wires going to the distributor. I did the pin test to the Coolant sensor... checked ok. There is 12 VDC to the coils with key on. 2 New coils, Ign Amps, replacement ECU, new dist cap and rotor. Today going to do pin pout tests to Ign Amps, key switch voltage drop test etc. Most of that "No Start" is geared to Lucas Ign, so I have to decifier some of what applies and what doesn't. Thanks.

 

Vancouver XJ6, I am willing to pitch in with the cost if Fla Steve wants to have it scanned. It would be invaluable to the forum.

 

Okay getting lots of requests for the Service Manual. I will do it after I get this thing started/running. Okay does anyone know of any tests that can be done on the Marelli Ignition Amplifiers? Over the last 2 days and per the previous owner the following has been checked or parts thrown at her. It's a 90 Marelli Ignition so a lot of the "No Start" electrical tips don't apply, some due. Previous owner had a problem with it only running on one bank. He installed 1 new Ignition Amplifier (approx $300 ea). Then NO SPARK at all. So he bought 2 new coils...still no spark. I installed a new rotor and cap (sure enough old rotor had burn marks underneath)...but still no spark. Installed second hand ECU...no spark. Voltage test with key in run position showed 12VDC at Amplifiers and coils. But when I went to start position it dropped to 10VDC? (He had read about the ignition/key switch and had previously taken it out and cleaned it...so not sure why voltage drop. I will repeat that cleaning again.) I performed an ECU connector "Pin Out Test" for continuity for every relevant connector: Coils, Amplifiers, Crank Flywheel Sensor, TDC or Crank sensor at balancer up front, Temperature Sensor and Earth pins. All Tested good for continuity. I installed a new Flywheel sensor...still NO SPARK. Ordered a new sensor for up front at the damper/crank. If that doesn't fix it then what?

 

Hi Fla Steve

There are 14 Wires going to the distributor 12 for the Plugs and 2 for the Coils

One or both of those Wires to the Coils could have a problem in as much as one of those Wires could be Broken or not Connected properly

There is also an outside chance that the Wrong Coil is connected to the Wrong Bank of Cylinders in which case She definitely won't start (ask me how I know!) or rather don't

The Two Ignition Amplifiers on the Top Closing Panel need to be bedded down to their Heat Sinks with Thermal Paste like you would use on the Cpu of a Computer

(I wonder if the previous owner did that?) or they could burn out

Are the Plug leads connected in the right order according to the Numbers on the Distributor Cap?

My 'Guess' is that this could be the problem, so hopefully 'Greg' 'Grant' or 'Jig Jag' will step in and show you how to Check it and make sure that it has been set up properly

 

There are only the HT plug leads and coil leads. It's a Marelli distributor/Ignition, so unless I'm wrong; There are no wires going inside the distributor. There are NO components inside the "dizzy" (learned that from our Brit friends here...haha). I verified the firing order and plug connections from the Amps to the coils, and did a continuity test...all good. BUT you may have sparked haha...what it lacks...an idea. When the previous owner attempted to fix it after running on one bank, he added 2 new coils first; then he changed one of the Ign Amps. He did so without replacing the fried rotor....SOOOOOOO maybe he fried both Amps? **** that's $600!!!!!!!!!!! Thus the request for a way to Test them. Still have some sense of humor left

 

Hi Fla Steve

I've also got an 90 Marelli and I know there are no Wires inside the Distributor, I was referring to the Wires outside of the Distributor

ie The 12 Plug Leads and the 2 Leads to the Coils (that is what I meant by 'Wires')

And if one of those Coil Leads has got a 'Break' in it or is not making good Contact, that 'Could' be the cause of the problem

As for Testing the Coils 'Warrjon' will know all about that sort of stuff

 

Steve, you need to forget about the rotor and the distributor until you have confirmed you have a spark at the coil outputs. A plug lead into each of the coils can be used for testing. Each of those coils should be outputting multiple sparks per rev. and if not it will be nothing to do with the rotor. When you do move to spark distribution keep in mind original marelli cap will be marked with cylinder numbers, replacement part may not but the order of plug leads around cap is not the same as Lucas layout.

 

Baxtor I tried the coil test with a spare spark plug grounded as you suggested. NOTHING. No Spark from either coil. The only thing I haven't yet done is replace the Crank Position Sensor...should be in store tomorrow. The previous owner had ordered the Flywheel sensor and I installed it with no effect. P.S. I believe both sensors are now superseded to the same part number. I did verify voltage going to the coils and AMPS with the key switched on. I wonder if I can get an output signal from the ECU to the AMPS while in the start mode? If it's a voltage maybe an injector style Noid light will work. If it's a square wave then I have to think of another way to verify a pulsed signal from the ECU to the AMPS. I'll keep you posted.

 

Two days ago new rotor and cap...No Spark (but rotor was burned).
Yesterday I installed a new Flywheel Sensor among other checks...No Spark.
Today I installed a front damper Crank Position Sensor and Viola SHE RUNS!!!!

Thanks for the helpful tips. This Forum is the best.

In the Boot is what everyone is asking for. Be patient I'll figure it out...probably 1,000 pages.