Good afternoon,

Could sure use some advice and help.

After much study and help from this and other sites, I took on the job of replacing the oil switch and oil gauge sending units.

After removing the various parts to access the area, and after purchasing the crows foot tool as suggested, no amount of force would remove the oil pressure sending unit bolt from the tower. Fearing the destuction of the tower from the stress, we decided to go the additional trouble of removing the tower so that we could have easier access to the nut holding the sending unit in place. Of course to accomplish that task you must first remove the banjo bolt that connects the oil lines.

You may have now guessed that the additional stress of removing the banjo bolt (which never loosened) snapped the tower from its base near the bolt on passenger side.

Now I am in a real pickle. I still need to remove the switch, gauge and banjo bolt. As with many of these jobs, it is never the task at hand that causes the trouble. Had the bolts released as they should, I could have completed this job in less than two hours. Now, instead, I am worse off than when I started.

Any recommendations on where I can purchase a new tower? Any recommendations on how I can remove the old tower now that I will be unable to remove the banjo bolt?

Thank you!

 

BUGGA.

I need a stiff drink from just reading all that, you have definately got a task at hand here.

To remove ALL that assembly with the engine in situ is fiddly at best, especially those banjo bolts at the rear of each cylinder head, getting them back in again is NOT fun. The RH is not bad, but the LH is just painful.

The pedastal is the same as the PreHE so s/hand should be OK.

I would look at finding some "universal" saw, and cut the head off the big banjo. That would allow removal of all the damaged bits without doing any more damage to the pipes etc. Care will required so as not to damage the actual large banjo, as that is part of the pipes that are near impossible to remove. OR, using that same saw, cut the pedastal to pieces in situ, it needs replacing now, so cutting it as needed to release that banjo bolt will do no more harm.

Second suggestion. Drill into the alloy casting at the area where the threaded section of the banjo bolt is, and that should release the tension on the threads and allow removal.

Thirdly. Remove the throttle pedastal, and that will allow access for something heavy enough to hold that pedastal whilst seriously leaning on that bolt to undo it.

I do feel for you, I have always had issues in that same area, when trying to remove what appears to be original items that are so damn tight.

 

I got one laying around...

 

Mish_Mish

PM sent. Thanks!

 

I am with Grants's "OR" suggestion and/or his "second" suggestion. As he mentions, if you remove the throttle pedestal, you can get a huge self grip wrench on the pedestal and cut into the casting around the big banjo, and with a ring spanner on the banjo and with the wrench on the pedestal, the banjo WILL come out. Obviously care needed not to crack the oil feed pipe to the banjo and from the pedestal to the cams.

The only IMPORTANT bit to save is the actual banjo ring and the oil pipe attached to it, the actual banjo BOLT can be easily replaced. So even cutting into the pedestal just 'downstream' of the feed ring and pipes will not matter at all, providing the ring and pipes bit of the assembly gets off intact.

As Grant says, if the pipes to the cams are cracked, it is almost certainly an engine out/engine shift forward somehow, job. Second hand pedestals very easy to get, and banjo bolts.

Greg

 

As it turns out, the oil feed coming from the passenger side broke off at the pedestal. It looks like it slipped out from the banjo bolt device or is a clean break. Obviously it is hard to see, but I used a mirror to ascertain that much.

Are you folks suggesting that I will now have to pull the engine for what was a $100 repair? If so, that totals the car and I am done over a sending unit.

Thanks. I am appreciate the honest, if not devastating feedback.

 

Grant is better placed than I am to give you the definitive answer. The problem is this:


This is the oil feed banjo that feeds oil to the A bank side camshaft from the pedestal (US passenger side) . There is a similar one on the B bank. Each is fed from an output each side of the pedestal, the big banjo in the centre of the pedestal receives oil directly from the oil filter area and the pedestal relays that oil to the two camshaft outputs, as well as having ports for the oil pressure sender and warning light.

The problem is actually getting a spanner (wrench in M90-speak!) onto the A bank camshaft feed banjo bolt (see pic above) and then getting the banjo bolt out, if you can loosen it. There is very little space to do this, as you will see if you go and inspect carefully, as the bulkhead (firewall) is very close to the engine here, and somewhat shrouded by the metal gutter that runs across the windscreen end of the engine bay. B bank camshaft oil feed banjo is difficult, but there may be slightly more space.

Maybe try it and see how it goes? If impossible, maybe there is a way short of actually removing the engine e.g. fab speciall tool/bent spanner and other demon tweeks the guys may have up their sleeves.

Courage as my French friends say!

Greg

 

OK, clearer picture now.

I will go down to the storage facility (later today) and have a real good look at teh HE XJ-S I take care of, and see exactly what room is available.

I will post back later tonight, downunder time.

I did the copper washers on those 2 banjos on our XJ12, and being a sedan there was/is a small amount of extra room, as the body of the car in that area is different. Getting them out is simple enough (still awkward), but getting them back in without dropping washers, and/or cross threading the camblocks is very trying, trust me. Also the well documented issue with the threads in the camblocks that strip all on their own, is also worrying me a little. There are longer banjo bolts readily available, but I really dont think there is enough room on an XJ-S to get them is with the engine mounted.

I will be back as they say.

 

OK, I have returned.

That is NOT going to be easy on an XJ-S, and Greg is right, that panel lip is just where your hand, bent at strange angles, will need to be.

I would remove all the heater hoses, and tap, and whatever else is in the way.

Still damn tight, especially for refitting

Raising the rear of the engine, as in undoing the trans mount "big nut" and jacking the trans right up into the tunnel, MAY give you that bit of extra space. It will certainly give some extra space, but whether it is enough, not sure.

the banjo bolts at the rear of each cylinder head are the 2 I worry about the most. My reasons are that the banjo bolts are "technically" too short, and only pick up on 3 or 4 threads in that alloy housing, and strip those threads with the greatest of ease. There is about 1" of thread inside that housing, so longer banjo bolts are really what we all do when in there, and that is usually when the engine is out, coz we know of this nonsense.

If they come out OK, getting them back in whilst holding a copper washer in place with one hand and the banjo with the other all in a one handed space is testy. As I said the sedan is marginally more spacious in this area, and I had difficulty with them, and I also am blessed with smallish hands. Then add to that the fact you can see 'diddly", so its all be feel.

Getting back on the plus side, it is DO-ABLE, but you and that engine are going to get real cosy, trust me. The language is going to flow, and the drink is going to increase in intensity very quickly.

The other end of that pipe at the oil filter housing is also awkward, and also mainly by feel, coz actually getting an eyeball on it would be a blessing.

I hope that gives you a picture of what is involved, and I really do not want to scare you, or upset you more than you currently may be, and I also know that your beloved is broke, and that is sad.

This would be up very high on my list of "stupid" on the mighty V12. The RHD starter motor is on top of my list, that is just dumb.

 

Grant
Sadly, I believe that jacking up the gearabox will not help, as it fouls the tunnel after about 1 inch of lift. Bearing in mind you "only" need about another 2 inches of access room from the firewall, if trying as you suggest just turns out to be impossible, then I think, only think, this might be do-able:

1. Disconnect battery
2. Connect an engine hoist/crane across the engine chained to the lifting eyes to support the engine, (see pics in Proper Lift Points thread, but without the lifting angle in this case)
3. Unbolt gearbox mounting bracket
4. Disconnect the downpipes from the exhaust
5. Undo front engine mounts at their top
6. Undo top hoses from radiator
7. Disconnect fuel pipes from the pressure regulator each side
8. Undo rear subframe V mountings and rack/column universal joint
9. Swing down subframe onthe front mountings to release the engine mountings from the engine and to clear the sump from the subframe
10. The engine is now in effect 'swinging' on the hoist, but still connected to nearly everything
11. Carefully pull the engine crane forwards/swing or lever the engine just enough (2 inches, say) to give you the room to fix the banjos.

This is not exactly easy, and is quite a bit of work, but given the tools would not take a couple of guys more than a morning, and is not nearly as bad as removing the lump completely.

If the main oil feed banjo is OK, then undoing the other end by the sump would not be necessary, I believe. If it was, it can be accessed from underneath, engine in car, I think. Finally, Ron Kelnhofer sells cam feed banjo bolts with longer threads, well worth it I think.

 

OK, I have just spent a little time in the garage on this rainy/sleeting afternoon. Update:

The bolt on the A bank camfeed is 5/8ths. As Grant said, if the vacuum-controlled water valve is removed, AND the oil pedestal, and any bits of loom, water pipes in the area, and the cross-pipe that balances between the two manifolds, and the throttle pedestal, I am sure you can get a ring spanner with a slightly angled head onto the A bank camfeed banjo bolt; going in from the V horizontally.

Best to tie a bit of strong cotton thread to the spanner and to the car! Spanner might need to be bent a touch if necessary, as required. Have telescopic magnet ready to catch the bolt.

B bank has enough room as the offset on the crank means it has a couple of inches clearance.

As Grant said (genuflects towards the Southern Cross) getting the A bank banjo bolt and washers etc back in is going to be very hard. There is 1 inch between the bolt head and the fibreboard tunnel heat shield, which is just infront of the actual steel bulkhead. If you have to, the fibreboard heatshield can be vandalised to give about 1/2 to 3/4 inch more clearance. This can be done with a long chisel or screwdriver, not pretty, but only you will ever know!

As you will be fitting a new pedestal and new oilfeed pipes, this might make reinstallation just a touch easier. For instance:

• assemble the A bank bolt, banjo and pipes and the required copper washers. Get some thick grease to glue then all together. Then carefully loop a length of dental floss/thin cotton round the bolt threads below the inside washer (that will go against the cam casting) and tie with a slip knot (half a shoelace bow) diagonally, but not too tightly, round the outside end of the bolt where the pipe joins the banjo. That is the floss is now diagonally along the length of the bolt holding everything in place. Notch the bolthead if needed to be sure.
• support the whole banjo and pipework on another piece of string so it is dangling in roughly the correct position and will NOT fall down the bellhousing when you drop it.
• fiddle around/get someone with small hands, and get the A bank banjo bolt started a few turns. Pull floss/cotton slip knot release and extract floss before it becomes trapped.
• place in position oil pedestal and B bank camfeed pipe to get the correct orientation on the A bank feed pipe.
• tighten A bank pipe, fit and tighten B bank pipe and fit pedestal and pedestal banjo bolt.

I am certain this would be doable, and a LOT less bother than moving the engine! Worth a try, that is for sure.

 

I've been reading this thread and admire all of you guys for the in depth help you've tried to give. I've been helped immensely on this forum and appreciate all the time that is spent assisting a fellow enthusiast, so I thought I might try to help too. Now, I'm not by my car and my memory may prove this idea totally wrong but, here goes anyway. Could there be the possibility of removing the wiper motor assembly to access the (gutter area), and drill a hole through to the engine compartment right behind the banjo and use a socket on it? Then seal it up afterwards? Just a thought.Bud

 

Bud,

Good thought, really.

I am nowhere near an XJ-S either, and 45c out there, not interested haha.

My memory, lousy, is that seam of that panel may be at that the right level, C'MON Greg in France, have a peek, its cooler up there.

There is not much room at the base of that plenum chamber, but it might just be an idea.

 

Well Grant, it is minus 8 here, so I would prefer + 45! Anyway, (and great lateral thinking idea Buddyluv) went to the garage to see. Sadly it is no go. The camfeed bolt is about 3 inches lower than the bottom of the wiper box. If you look for the firewall electrical distribution post, which goes directly though the firewell into the cabin, and must therefore be below the wiper box, it is considerably above the camfeed bolt.

Of course, you could remove the dashboard, the US passenger side loom, fuse board, aircon blower and ducting, and drill an access hole through the firewall. A friend of mine did this on an Audi Quattro (original 80s model) to change the clutch slave cylinder! Then welded up the hole...

Has the original poster already crushed the old girl? He's gone a bit quiet...

Greg

 

Maybe we scared him. Sadly sometimes these simple tasks really get out of control. I still reckon with some time and caution this is quite able to be done without destroying too much.

When I did the PreHE RH side on the XJ12, and stripped those threads, so I made a banjo bolt, Sunday repairs that go pear shaped lead to all sorts of "making", and fiddled for hours to get that longer one in and the washers, etc. Super glue worked for me.

-8 damn. Its nearly 10PM here and still 40. A cool change is coming from the west and tomorrow is meant to be 26, NICE.

 

Greg,

By the look of that picture, you have some glue around camshaft housing. Was it seeping oil from there?


I suspect that I have seepage there as well, because I see some oil smoke come out when engine warms up. Were you able to apply glue with engine in the car, or was it on the outside? Lastly, what kind of glue?

 

Engine out I am afraid, and induction off. When I rebuilt the car, and had the engine out, I cleaned up the V (horrible job) then removed the camcovers and glammed them up. I fitted Ron Kelnhofer end seals as shown in the original photo, new gaskets, and used hex key fixings on the cam cover. If the area was not pretty clean, I do not think the sealant would key properly, if at all. Nothing that several hours with white spirit and a toothbrush will not fix.

Oil seeps out of the join between the tappet block (carrying the cam) and the actual head. This was apparently a metal to metal join at the time of construction. Understandable, for it is crucial to valve clearances. Here is a 'before' photo of that join from the side on the cleaned up engine prior to cam cover work:


Here is an 'after pic:


My friend Martin, who is a real Jaguar expert, and great bloke all round, and runs his own Jaguar garage business which is so successful he never advertises, told me that most of the oil that escapes onto the exhaust manifolds comes from this join, and that sealing it as shown works wonders. Not, I hasten to add, that he would advocate this as a fix, except for tyros like me who are too chicken to remove the tappet block and apply a modern Loctite-type hi-tech sealer to the metal faces.

So I ordered up some very high spec silicone that withstands 400°C no bother at all at vast cost for a standard tube, from these people: High Temperature Sealant, Chemical Oil Resistant RTV, Heat Proof over 300C sealant

Then I took some sandpaper and went all round the head/tappet block join roughing up the alumin(i)um each side of the join. Then as you see, I liberally applied the bodge and pressed it home with a finger to get it to key. (Madame does mention for time to time that aesthetics are not my strong suit). The stuff goes right round this join including the side in the V.

That was 18 months ago and I have done quite a few hot weather miles since then, including a couple of 250 mile very hot trips, and it is still holding and seems to work really well. Of course, the oil seeping out is not under pressure, just finding its way home to the sump.

Greg

 

Hey Guys,

Here is where I stand with this project. (By the way, I have not given up nor am I discouraged as I have a plan!)

Thankfully, one of the posters on this thread had a spare of the part that was broken. He shipped it right away and I have it in hand. I cannot thank him enough for that. So, I have all the parts I need. That is the good news.

When reading your various responses, it became clear what were not viable options. Removing the engine -- too costly for this car. Trying to raise the engine and move it a few inches forward -- I would mess something up worse than I already have. Remove and replace passenger side cam banjo bolt -- if I stripped it, I am back to the non-viable remove engine option.

So, my plan is to carefully cut (with a tubing cutter to avoid metal shavings) the old metal lines while still in place, cut the new metal lines attached to the new pedestal and banjo bolt assembly, and then place and double clamp a high pressure hydraulic hose to fill the gap between the old and the new.

No engine removal, no stripping of existing cam banjo bolts, but a completely functional and permannent solution. Pictures forthcoming after the operation next week

Thoughts?

Thank you all for your help. I have a cars and coffee week after next at which time I plan to unveil the new and improved cat.

 

Give it a go, say I. If you can find one the right size, try to solder/araldite an 'olive' (brass compression sealing ring) 8 mm down the pipe each side. Also rough up the pipe a bit with coarse emery paper so the flexible has something to grip onto.The danger is that the new piece of tube will get pushed off by the pressure, and a 'hump' on the tube that the flexible can be pushed over and the clamps fixed the other side of it, will greatly aid the flexible's grip on the pipe each side. Two clamps each side is a very sensible idea too.

Also, ensure you get a piece of flexible that can withstand heat, certainly got to be good for 150°C, I would have thought.

Great news that you are up for the whole thing, good for you and good luck

Greg

 

Mmmm, cannot see why it wont work.

The oil pressure there cold is about 100psi, so that will, I hope, give you an aid as to what is required as far as hose and clamps etc.