Greetings to all XJS owners here and hope that you can provide some help with my quest.
I am trying to get my 1988 XJS convertible to be as good as possible (ie like it would have been new) in the front suspension department.

Can any members point out what else can be done to make the front suspension as close to factory new as possible (assuming that was good as I never drove one new)

Firstly, my car has 16inch TWR wheels (It has had then from new) - the car was purchased by a Jaguar dealer principal as his personal car.
Car has done 76,000 kms.

Also, I have just shod the car with two new front tyres - Pirelli 225/50R 16 92V P7 Cinturato

Before I became the car's owner , back in Feb 2013 (about 2,000 kms ago), the steering rack bushes were replaced.

After I bought the car, I had the following done to the front suspension

Replaced top arm bushes
Replaced lower arm bushes
replaced sway bar link bushes
Replaced upper ball joints
Replaced lower ball joints

But after all this, I think there is more to do, as it still doesn't feel as tight and true as I "imagine" it could.

I was told the shockers were "OK" but i am now starting to question that as I am pretty sure that they are the original shocks and I have now found out that one of them is actually leaking.

Over bumps, the front wheels make a banging noise (Shock absorber/shock absorber tower bushes?)
On (heavy-ish) braking the car pulls to the right quite dramatically

And, after all the work that I have I had done above, I have had a wheel alignment done...and I have attached a copy of the

What else do I need to look at getting done?
Any advice appreciated.

 

Your Countryman Grant Francis will be along soon, and he knows everything there is to know about the XJS. Welcome to the forum and to XJS ownership. My advice, subject to Grant's correction would be:


Brakes/front axle: Fit new discs, pads and callipers (which really they should have done when they had it all apart). While the hub is off the stub axle, look carefully at the stub axle for circular wear marks where the bearings sit. If there are any and you can feel a tiny bump as you pull a fingernail along the stub axle, renew them. It is best to fit new wheelbearings at the same time.


If the pull persists after all this, and you have antilock brakes (which appeared about the time of your model year) then best to post again about that once the hubs are sorted. It is a job requiring great care and the actuator has to be repaired as a new one is not available. If you search for Orangeblossom's posts on braking problems you will see what is involved. All do--able though. If you do not have ALB, then renew the master cylinder.

Shock absorbers: New shocks pretty essential all round, not just the front if they are the originals. This will make a HUGE improvement in the ride. As you mention, the rubbers where the shock connects to the wing may well be shot. I believe Boge shocks are very good value and are what was originally fitted and they are not too pricey in the UK anywy. eg:
Jaguar Partno_CAC9089*B_FRONT SHOCK ABSORBER XJ6 XJ12 XJS_David Manners Group with Alts


I believe that the correct tyre size is 22/60 16 s so 50aspect will give a slightly harsher ride.
Greg

 

Greg has pretty much got it.

A leaking shocker will ree havoc for what you seek.

The front cradle (subframe) mounts will tired now. The large round at teh front are not as prone to issues as much as teh rear "V" mounts.

I only use GENUINE for those "V" mounts. The aftermarket have a habit of cracking the cast alloy base plate, and they are NOT a 5 minute job to fit.

Engine mounts should be replaced, simply from an age point.

Sway bar "D" rubbers will be definately worn by now. I use Poly here, and they are another fun job, not.

Correct placement of the camber shim packs is CRITICAL for handling sharpness.

You mention lower inner wishbone bushes. I trust you used the GENUINE Metalastik brand here. The others will fail very quickly.

 

I agree.

I'm still on my first cuppa coffee but, from the print-out from the shop, it looks like one front wheel is set to positive camber and the other to negative camber



Cheers
DD

 

Thanks, Doug,

Your first cup of coffee has done the trick and peaked your alertness!!

I mentioned this anomaly in the shop - and they tried to tell me it was all OK - But I don't know enough about wheel alignment to really push back.

Is camber adjustable during a wheel alignment?

(Or is it one of the adjustments that requires shims and taking the suspension apart?)

And, what would be the affect (short and long term) of this divergence of camber?

Its so interesting - I had another wheel alignment done a few weeks earlier after putting the new tyres on and before getting any front end work done and the report from that looks completely different to the one that was done most recently. I may post it out of interest.

 

Hi Grant - Greetings to a fellow Aussie! And from one of my favourite cities!!

Can you explain what the effect of a leaking shocker will be? Also , the subframe mounts - how big a job is that to replace them?

What will I notice different when changing the engine mounts?

 

Shockers wear out. Leaking is just part of it. If you want the car 100% as per factory, they need to be changed. A bad shocker will mean the car's ride will be poor and body control on corners and bumps less than satisfactory.


The unique Jaguar signature is refinement with very good handling, it is easy to get one of these, but not both. Genuine Jaguar bushes are important to recapture this blend. Basically they go hard with time and stop absorbing vibrations as they were designed to do. Not difficult to change but the rear two front subframe mounts need care as the subframe has to be dropped down a touch to do them, which means the engine has to be supported which means the steering column must be disconnected and the subframe drop carefully controlled. If the engine mounts and shocks are done at the same time then this avoids repetitive work.


The front subframe "six shot" front bushes are straightforward, but again care is needed. I would have thought a decent garage who knew the cars could do the lot in well under a day.


I did not think the camber looked that far out on your printout, spec is 0.5 of a degree negative, + or - 0.25 of a degree. Getting a really accurate camber measurement is not easy if it was one of those laser jobs that puts the pins against the tyre/rim join.


On my car you can get access to the anti roll bar mount rubbers, just, engine in car. Also has anyone mentioned the ARB drop link rubbers ? These are easy to change and will also need it. The diagram below shows these bits. drop link rubbers are 24, ARB bushes are 18, six shot bushes are 10, front subframe rear Vee mounts are 2.





If you want the genuine new ex-factory feel, all these things have to be fixed. I have just done it mainly owing to poor part quality on a recent refurb of this area, and the difference is astonishing. But as Grant says, genuine Metalastic parts only!
Greg

 

With the greatest of thanks to Greg and Grant, and by scanning through all the suggestions in the posts, I have compiled the following list of "things to do" to get my front suspension (as close to factory spec as possible)

THE LIST
======

(Greg) Discs, pads and calipers - check and replace if necessary (? or just replace due to age?)
(Greg) stub axle - check for circular wear marks where bearings sit - check for bumps on stub axle - if bumps replace stub axle and new wheel bearings (What causes the bumps and what negative effect does it cause having bumps on the stub axle?)
(Greg) Shock Absorbers - Fit new shock absorbers all around and shock tower bushes (the rubber where shocks conned to the wing)
(Grant) Front Cradle (subframe) mounts to be replaced - (Ensure use genuine parts for large rear “V" mounts (2
(Grant) Engine mounts replace
(Grant) Sway bar “D” mounts to be replaced (poly or rubber?)
(Grant) Check for correct placement of camber shim packs (How can the mechanic tell if the correct number of shims are present and that the camber is set correctly?)
(Grant) Check that all upper control arm and lower control arm bushes already replaced are Metalastik brand
(Greg) Front subframe “six shot” front bushes (10) (Why are they called six-shot?)
(Greg) ARB drop link rubbers (24)
(Greg) ARB bushes (18)

....and finally non-one has mentioned them but what about SPRINGS - how do you know if they need replacing? Do they ever need replacing?

And now i have a couple of questions about the next steps - getting all this done

1. How many hours labour do you think will be involved in doing each of the jobs above?
2. How can I tell if the bushes already fitted are genuine (Metalastik)?
3. What about the steering rack, tie rod ends and any other steering related parts prone to wear - what may still need to be done in that department?

 

[QUOTE=redgear;1311095]With the greatest of thanks to Greg and Grant, and by scanning through all the suggestions in the posts, I have compiled the following list of "things to do" to get my front suspension (as close to factory spec as possible)

THE LIST
======

(Greg) Discs, pads and calipers - check and replace if necessary (? or just replace due to age?) due to age, change flexibles also
(Greg) stub axle - check for circular wear marks where bearings sit - check for bumps on stub axle - if bumps replace stub axle and new wheel bearings (What causes the bumps and what negative effect does it cause having bumps on the stub axle?)marks caused by bearing inner race rotation, mainly on the underside of the stub, causes the bearing to hit the stub axle and hammer a bit, causes clomks and uncontrolled wheel movement on the axle
(Greg) Shock Absorbers - Fit new shock absorbers all around and shock tower bushes (the rubber where shocks conned to the wing)
(Grant) Front Cradle (subframe) mounts to be replaced - (Ensure use genuine parts for large rear “V" mounts (2
(Grant) Engine mounts replace
(Grant) Sway bar “D” mounts to be replaced (poly or rubber?) see below the ARB mounts, I say use OEM rubber, but poly will not hurt but slightly harsher
(Grant) Check for correct placement of camber shim packs (How can the mechanic tell if the correct number of shims are present and that the camber is set correctly?) I believe camber can only be accurately set with the wheels off and the measuring surfaces against the vertical face of the hub (or discs) with the lower suspension arms horizontal. This is a springs off matter.
(Grant) Check that all upper control arm and lower control arm bushes already replaced are Metalastik brand
(Greg) Front subframe “six shot” front bushes (10) (Why are they called six-shot?) They are huge round bushes with holes through the rubber to soften the bushing and look like revolver chambers
(Greg) ARB drop link rubbers (24)
(Greg) ARB bushes (18)See sway bar above

....and finally non-one has mentioned them but what about SPRINGS - how do you know if they need replacing? Do they ever need replacing? they do but if when they are off they are equal height and not badly pitted with rust they should be fine. Older springs will be slightly banana shaped but that is normal because the springs are held this way by the suspension setup

And now i have a couple of questions about the next steps - getting all this done

1. How many hours labour do you think will be involved in doing each of the jobs above?All of them should be done together because the parts costs are relatively small compared with the labour cost and once the subframe is dropped down everything is easy to do at once. The entire job should not be started until all the parts are in hand.



Time and stages for the job as follows:

1. support engine with beam from front lifting eyes, unbolt front engine mount top bolt from where it pokes through the brackets on engine, remove shock absorbers, callipers, disconnect steering column from rack, undo V mount to subframe securing bolt, loosen 6 shout bolts and round bush securing bracket. Swing the back of the subframe downwards pivoting on the six shot loosened bolts, enough to get at the V mount frame bolts, change the engine mounting rubbers, ARB bolts etc etc 3 hours
2. remove callipers (it can be a real pain to undo the lower calliper bolt). have you got access to a scrapyard as you may need to cut the steering arm off if this bolt will not undo, so you could need a new steering arm or even both sides if you are unlucky. Remove hubs, check stub axles, undo disc from hub, clean hub/disc surface, fit new discs, check for no more than 2 thou disc edge runout when hub back on car. 3 hours
3. If needed to fit new stub axles and new bearings 2 hours
4. steering arm tierod/trackend balljoints 1 hour
5. putting it all back together with the new bushes as noted 3 hours
6. tracking it up on a laser tracker 1 hour.

I think these times are realistic for a garage that has done this sort of work on a Jaguar before. But Grant can tell you what the trade times are, and probably tell you where to go for the work to be done.

2. How can I tell if the bushes already fitted are genuine (Metalastik)?they will have "metalastic" cast into the rubber in tiny letters. If your garage did not buy the bushes from Jaguar, and did not specify to an aftermarket supplier that they wanted metalastics, the chances are you have not got metalastics. your garage should ask their supplier (jaguar will have supplied metalastics
3. What about the steering rack, tie rod ends and any other steering related parts prone to wear - what may still need to be done in that department? replace them while you are at it.


Good luck
Greg

 

Not in order, I am way too tired.

Springs, NAH, not in OZ, or rarely at best.

Camber shims on the top wishbone, oh my, that is almost a War and Peace scribe.

There are shims on the 2 bolts that secure the top wishbone pivot pin to the cradle on each side. Shims are placed between the pivot pin and the cradle. Those that know, ensure that the thickness of the shims on the front bolt is EXACTY the same as on the rear bolt. This maintains the top and bottom wishbone pivots in a true Parallel position.

This is mostly way too fiddly for many aligners.

This adjustment ONLY does teh camber.

The Caster is achieved by moving teh "set pack" of shims located AT teh outer top balljoint front for and aft, to give the Caster required. AGAIN, way too fiddly.

The shortcut is to do both adjustments with unequal shim thickness at the 2 top pivot bolts. The car will be sort of OK, but when it is set up as designed the difference is Chalk and Cheese.

The uneven way also has the top wishbone pivot bushes fail prematurely.

The front LARGE round cradle mounts are simple enough, as Greg said.

The rear V mounts are time consuming at best. Access is almost NIL on the LH side if the steer cooler is still fitted, and not a lot better with it gone.

The engine mounts is simply common sense at the age, and again, when new are fitted the difference it felt as part of the package.

The shockers, well, Greg has it by the b*&^s. Rule of thumb in my fleet is new shockers at every 5th set of tyres.



I have NOT addressed what you have listed as having been done.

 

Greg,

thank you very, very much..thank you for the huge effort you have put in to answering all my myriad of questions!!
You have provided an awesome answer and I now feel equipped to go and seek a garage who can do this work and know at least a little bit of what I need to specify.
thank you again..I. Really am humbled and appreciative of your tremendous effort (and patience) to assist me!

 

Grant,

thank you very very much for your input and assistance. your sharing of your experience is absolutely invaluable to me and takes me from knowing nothing to at least having a high level overview of what needs to be done and why...your help is truly appreciated,

thank you Grant!