Hey all,

Been using the VIN decoder on here when looking at a few XJSC's for sale.. and it has me confused. Maybe someone here can clear things up. These all "appear" to be XJSC cars.. but...

Car 1: 1986 XJSC. VIN SAJNV5845GC128271. Listed as a XJ 2dr Coupe

Car 2: 1987 XJSC. VIN SAJNV3842HC135038. Listed as a XJS 2dr Cabriolet

Car 3: 1988 XJSC. VIN SAJNA3842JC140452. Listed as a XJS-C 2dr Coupe


So, apparently all of these cars are different according to their VINs. Yet they all appear the same from the exterior, and are all listed for sale as XJSC models. So why does the VIN decoder say they're all different? Any help would be appreciated... Thanks

 

VINs can get confusing.

Before going any further.......

At least thru the mid-90s Jaguar (and many others) had different VIN schemes for the USA/North American market vs. ROW markets. On the 80s vintage cars you can see the original VIN on the cowl panel and the assigned "USA" VIN on the windshield tag, door tag, etc. Two different VINS, same car, both correct.

Whatever VIN decoder you use has to match the 'language' of VIN you select. I've found that most VIN decoders are USA/North America centric but there are actually four different VIN conventions is use around the world.

There could well be other possibilities that could explain what you're seeing but the first step is to verfiy which VIN is being used.

Cheers
DD

 

They are a bit odd.

I don't think the 1988 car can be an XJ-SC as they stopped production in the 1987 MY. However the VIN suggests that it is? Are you sure the 6th digit is a 3 and not a 5?

The VIN of the 1986 car indicates a coupe which would make it an XJ-S not an XJ-SC

The 1987 car appears to be a true XJ-SC

 

Interesting... thanks Doug.

I've done some more digging and come up with the following, per motorcardltd.com. It appears that XJSC cars were only sold in the North American market for 1987-1988.

Jaguar VIN code information - Motorcars Ltd.

So for the 1986 car, either it is an aftermarket (H&E?) conversion or it was imported somehow from across the pond. Needs more research...

The 1987 is a North American spec Cabriolet w/ Active seat belts..

The 1988 is also a North American spec Cabriolet.

 

So upon further research, for the 1988 car, it is apparently a Hess and Eisenhardt Signature Cabriolet conversion. Apparently all Cabriolets for 1988 are H&E jobs, but are recognized as Cabriolets by Jaguar nonetheless. And I also agree, the 1987 is a genuine Jaguar built Cabriolet. This presumably explains the VIN naming discrepancy between 1987 and 1988. The H&E cars were recognized as "Coupes" but with a "C" at the end, whereas the 1987 is a bona fide Cabriolet, and is thus called so.

I agree with you about the VIN for the 1986. However, see below for a picture... looks like a Cabriolet right? Another interesting thing I noticed is the headlights. For a US-Spec 1986 car, they should be the quad-lamp style, correct? So what I think we have here is a Euro spec car that was imported somewhere along the way. Because the XJ-SC was indeed produced in V12 trim for the European market in 1986, with the lamp style as seen on the car below as a Jaguar XJ-SC Series 1 Cabriolet.

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...5_sc/1986.html

 

Learn sumthin new every day. I thought H&E made only conventional convertibles, not cabriolets




That detail might not might not be too significant given that conversion from quad lamps to 'Euro' lamps is so popular.

Cheers
DD

 

On closer observation of the blue car in your pics the short bumper and rear fog lamps DO suggest a non-USA, grey market car

Cheers
DD

 

Good eye. I'm definitely thinking grey market car now. See the link below for more photos. I'm actually thinking of purchasing this one assuming its mechanically sound. Any legal issues/other issues with a grey market car? Probably one of the only '86 Cabriolets in the states... and only 45min from me. With only 45,000mi... could be a good find. Might have to do away with the brass/gold steering wheel though, and the veneer needs to be redone.

Used 1986 Jaguar XJS XJS-C for sale in FLUSHING, MI | Sovereign Auto Group LLC

 

I thought exactly the same, Doug. I've been trying to find out more on the Cabriolet conversions but information is non existent. Supposedly about 300 were made, not sure over what years. I've only found 1 example online, and its the car I referenced above.

I know data on H&E stuff is scarce (there was a fire or something that destroyed records I think.. right?), but I'm surprised I can only find one single example.

 

Looks like the front bumper is US spec and the rear not. Maybe the bumper has been changed out sometime. Are they fog lights or the reflectors... and when did they have those horrid automatic seat belts ?

 

There are a lot of incongruities with the pictured car.

The VIN is for an American spec car but as Doug said the rear bumper is wrong and also there is no third taillight which was required by law from 1986 onwards.

However Malc is right the front bumper looks like a US spec? Very curious.

So it may well have been a grey market import, but would that have had a US VIN? Also wouldn't the import been forced to have the third taillamp added?

I too never knew H&E produced a cabriolet, just a convertible. Interesting and curious too!!

 

Weren't all US spec cars fitted with fog lights in front? If so, could that point to the original bumper being a Euro spec that was replaced due to damage, etc. with a US spec one at some point? Could be why there's a US bumper with no fogs.

And that's interesting about the possibility of reflectors instead of fogs on the rear. And does this car have automatic seat belts? I didn't see that.

 

Allan, how can you tell from the VIN that it's a US spec car? If it was a grey market car, is it possible it wouldn't have been fitted with the third light since it was an unofficial import? See above for my thoughts on the bumper. Because, besides the VIN, the front bumper is the only thing that points to a US spec car.

The VIN is what's most confusing. We all know that the Cabriolet wasn't available in the US market for '86.. so why do we have an '86 Cabriolet with a US VIN.. that's the most perplexing to me.

 

When did they require the auto seatbelts...wasn't that mid 80s. Front fogs are an option.

 

Well, I actually wasn't alive in the mid 80s so I'm not really sure. Haha. But based on the picture below, I'd say no auto seat belts in this car. Not sure what that does or doesn't say about the car though.

 

The auto belts on the XJS came along at about VIN 141xxx which would be March of 1987 or so. These were '1988' model year cars in the USA (and perhaps Canada?) but '1987½' elsewhere.

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks Doug, I wasn't aware of the auto seat belt requirement. So this would seem to further support that it is a 1986 model. Still just need to figure out the VIN mystery. How does one tell from the VIN that its a US spec car? If I were to take it to a Jaguar dealer for a PPI would they be able to shed some light on it?

 

A JDHT Heritage Certificate would do wonders here

As for gray market cars, I've looked at a few and have been a bit surprised, in some cases, at what was or wasn't changed in the 'federalization' process. I'm left with the impression that whoever gives the final approval....the DOT, I think.....is somewhat flexible. Or, perhaps more accurately, perhaps some individual DOT offices or inspectors are somewhat flexible.

The oddities of the car in question could have any number of explanations, some happier than others. Some perhaps downright nefarious....like VIN tag swapping or a partial re-body job or....?

Or perhaps, as mentioned, some incorrect parts used during a crash repair.....a relatively innocent thing.

Very interesting, though. It's fun getting to the bottom of these things.

Cheers
DD

 

It most certainly would. I hadn't really considered VIN-swapping.. yikes. If I find the car to be in good shape, I'd most likely order the Heritage Certificate before purchase.

That makes sense about the grey market cars, and there being inconsistencies in what was added and what wasn't. I'm sure it wasn't a very standardized process.

So, my current thoughts are to first look at the car and see if its in as good as shape as the pictures suggest. Next step would be a PPI to check for any accident repairs which might explain something. Then the Heritage Cert.

Any other ideas on getting to the bottom of this?

 

Post the last 6 of the vin & I will pull up the DDW to answer the question.