XK / XKR ( X150 ) 2006 - 2014

Black oil after <200 miles on oil change???

 
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:51 PM
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Angry Black oil after <200 miles on oil change???

Well, this is a little bit depressing. Last weekend I changed the oil in my 2010 XKR which has just over 27K on the motor (link documenting below). Granted the oil I pulled out was a bit dark. Tonight, out of curiosity, I decided to siphon out a small sample. This was after I have driven less than 200 miles, relatively "conservative" miles I must add. I did not expect the oil sample to be this dark? You can see fresh Ravenol oil on the left and what I siphoned out tonight on the right. I plan on doing another complete oil and filter change just as soon as I can get the oil shipped here. In fact, I might even do a 3rd oil change just for good measure.

My question: are there some additional measures I should consider? Like an engine oil cleaner? Or, maybe fuel injection clearer before I empty this current batch out??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-video-216420/


 
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:03 AM
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I think being a 2010 XKR you have the 5.0 which is DI (aka GDI) and it may be that it produces many fine particulates which you're seeing in the oil.

If so, it's similar to diesel engines

Hopefully someone who knows more about this can post, too.
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:59 AM
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I would venture to say that there could have been residual oil in the system that contaminated the new oil. I also suspects it happens to most cars unless you are the original owner from 0 mileage and did regular oil changes. I would also send the oil out and get it tested to see what is in it. I don't use any engine flush as I think they cause more problems then they are worth. Last is you may or will not get it as clean as you would like so pending no negative results come from a oil test you'll have to live with it. You may have to lower your expectations. As an FYI out of the past 5 years of ownership and 5 oil changes by the dealer I don't know what color my oil is and never considered looking at it. As long as it is full it is drive-able. Meaning there is nothing I can do about it so enjoy the drive.
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:21 AM
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Oil color is not an issue. If you are concerned, send it out for oil analysis. I use https://www.blackstone-labs.com
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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Thanks JagV8 - It may very well be normal for this type of engine. I will do a little more research on the DI.
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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Yes, there will always be some type of residual oil left in the system any time you do an oil change. It very well could have been enough to contanminate the oil I put in. I may have been a bit premature in the paranoia department. At any rate, it was just something that caught me off guard as I had not experienced that in other vehicles. Of course this is my first Jag. I can certainly lower my expectations, I just figured it would be best to consult with other owners. I really appreciate your reply, thank you! I think I will see if I can have a sample tested.
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
Oil color is not an issue. If you are concerned, send it out for oil analysis. I use https://www.blackstone-labs.com
Glad to know the color is something I shouldn't be too concerned with. I appreciate the link. Thanks!!
 
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:28 PM
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Yep, pretty normal for anything that just has the sump drained. It is important to run the engine a good bit before changing it to get any sediment up in the oil. If it sits too long it'll settle out.
 
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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The oil analysis is a great way to get real peace of mind.
 
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:54 AM
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The workshop manual states that the initial fill is 8.9 litres and subsequent fills require 7.25 litres. This would suggest that about 19% of the old oil is always left behind; enough to discolour the new oil?

If this is correct, flushing might not be a good idea a quite a lot of flushing fluid remains in the engine with the new oil.
 
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:32 AM
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Depends really as there is 'flushing and flushing'

One is end user putting a solvent substance in their oil, running it up to temp, draining and refilling, as has been stated circa 20% is left

Second is getting a specialist to use an oil flushing machine, I did so for mine which on purchase hasn't been serviced for 2yrs

The process is

1) Drain old oil
2) connect a machine that flushes with hot pressurised mineral oil and filters the oil coming out
3) removing sump plug and flush with mineral until runs clear
4) leave to stand for 30 mins and drain
5) refill with correct weight castrol

Normally this would cost 300/$380 but at my Indy is 99/$125 if done with a service
 
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by neilr View Post
The workshop manual states that the initial fill is 8.9 litres and subsequent fills require 7.25 litres. This would suggest that about 19% of the old oil is always left behind; enough to discolour the new oil?

If this is correct, flushing might not be a good idea a quite a lot of flushing fluid remains in the engine with the new oil.
Very good point! I evacuated out right at 7 liters. I placed in exactly 7 liters for fresh oil and the electronic oil measurement was spot on. I have checked the level four other times and it's still at the full mark. ~19% of old oil remaining would definitely cause the new oil to discolor like that. At any rate, I am going to go through the whole process and change the oil and filter again as soon as the oil gets delivered. Thanks for the input!
 
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkyUK View Post
Depends really as there is 'flushing and flushing'

One is end user putting a solvent substance in their oil, running it up to temp, draining and refilling, as has been stated circa 20% is left

Second is getting a specialist to use an oil flushing machine, I did so for mine which on purchase hasn't been serviced for 2yrs

The process is

1) Drain old oil
2) connect a machine that flushes with hot pressurised mineral oil and filters the oil coming out
3) removing sump plug and flush with mineral until runs clear
4) leave to stand for 30 mins and drain
5) refill with correct weight castrol

Normally this would cost 300/$380 but at my Indy is 99/$125 if done with a service
That would be the route I would go if I would do a flush. Personally, I would not use a solvent when 19% of the fluid would remain in the motor.
 
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffu View Post
That would be the route I would go if I would do a flush. Personally, I would not use a solvent when 19% of the fluid would remain in the motor.
When they did mine there was so much crap in the oil it caused the machine to stop working, no metal particles just what looked like congealed oil that blocked a pipe when they flushed out the galleries. This was on a car with 44k on the clock that hadn't had an oil service in over 2yrs but had only covered 10k miles since and left undriven for 12 months
 
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffu View Post
Very good point! I evacuated out right at 7 liters. I placed in exactly 7 liters for fresh oil and the electronic oil measurement was spot on. I have checked the level four other times and it's still at the full mark. ~19% of old oil remaining would definitely cause the new oil to discolor like that. At any rate, I am going to go through the whole process and change the oil and filter again as soon as the oil gets delivered. Thanks for the input!
Regardless of how much comes out, put back the 7.25 litres as stated in the manual. Reset the oil level gauge against this known correct volume.

Two oil changes, more ore less one after the other will leave 3.6% of the old oil in which sounds a lot better.
 
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkyUK View Post
Depends really as there is 'flushing and flushing'
The pressurised flush will still leave that "mineral oil" in the low points, right? So the only really acceptable flushing oil would be the recommended engine oil.
 
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:49 AM
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I own a number of classic cars and when you buy them at estate sale... well they are not always up on fluid changes. I have done a number of flushes and have mixed feelings about this process. Flush isn't risk-free as you can always dislodge something and end up causing internal damage or blockage that leads to oil starvation. I once lost cam to this, I heard anecdotes of bearing damage. Sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie...

Here is what I would suggest to OP:

1. Estimate how much sludge there is. You can undo oil fill cap and look inside - if all covered with black gunk, then chances are the rest of the engine is like that. You can also do a scope inspection or if you are really motivated undo valve covers.

2a. If there is a lot of sludge everywhere - you should drop oil pan, clean it out, clean oil pickup. Also inspect recirculation system (e.g. EGR valve and hoses) and change spark plugs and do a compression check if spark plugs come out oily. Also inspect timing chain for slack, as they tend to go in such situations. From there get on a frequent oil change interval and change oil filter multiple times per oil change (e.g. 1500 miles first 3 oil changes) but do not flush - too risky as you can end up sending debris through engine.
2b. If there is moderate or only some sludge - do a flush and intake chemical clean.
2c. Squeaky clean. Pour one out for previous owner and do nothing.

3. Don't go full factory recommended oil change interval, these engines are not meant to be run on old oil as too many things are controlled with oil pressure.

4. At least once every 6 month take a car for at least 30 minutes highway run and make sure to do it in a spirited way. Driving it too gently all the time is not good for the engine.
 

Last edited by SinF; 04-23-2019 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:01 PM
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Jeffu,

This could be the car's first good oil change in years.
My suspicion is that your good oil started dissolving the sludge left behind by inferior oil, as its designed to do.
Good news on premium oil is that it has a a lot of additives that are not easily destroyed (this is the specification) so it can handle this carbon you are seeing.

You must do this:
Run 2 bottles of Lubegard 95030 Engine Flush on the next change (in 2000 miles)
It does exactly what you are looking for. It dissolves the "glue" in oil without using any petrochemicals or anything else that harms seals. (its made by folks that know a thing or two about seals and gaskets)
You can try this test, put some old oil in a pan and observe how it sticks to the walls, as its designed to do. Then add some lubegard and see how easily it flows and wont stick to the walls.

You are in luck!
I just did an oil change using the same oil 300 miles ago. Will pull some out tonight and post a pic.
 

Last edited by Queen and Country; 04-23-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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Good news. Mine is almost as dark.
It surprised the daylights out of me as well.
On all my other cars, none of which are DI, it takes thousands of miles to get oil that loaded.

I learned a big lesson thanks to you. Anyone who thinks that a DI engine behaves the same as any other engine is in for a lesson.

 
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:19 PM
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^^ Wonderful presentation!
 
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