During a routine maintenance visit I discovered that my license plate lights weren't working although both bulbs were good. I found from a forum search that TSB JTB00226 had been issued for a software update to correct an issue where - as I understand it - faulty code incorrectly sensed a short circuit and cut power. I brought it to the dealer and now over a week later they still have the car and they're still struggling with it. Initially they had to wait for a very large 1TB download from Jaguar and once that was received and the patch applied the problem was corrected but according to the dealer the lights then went out again. I'm assuming this means there's not an issue with the wiring. They've been in discussion with Jaguar and have tried numerous suggestions (supposedly 10hrs of shop time, 2 of which I'm being billed for). Today they have a Webex call with Jaguar to try and troubleshoot this together. Any advice I can pass on to the dealer from someone who's been down this path before? Kind of ironic that the only problem I've had with this car in five years is a faulty license plate light.

 

Tell them this:


Then this:


Check the electrical diagram to see where they go, and do some simple multimeter tests for voltage + ground. And if all else fails, you can splice the wires into the daytime running light wires in the taillight unit.

 

Had this issue a month ago, after a winter time. Recharging a battery (although I did it at least twice during a winter) + disconnecting it from a car for a whole day helped sorting it out.

 

battery related

 

I think perhaps most jaguar technicians see themselves as 'software engineers' and typical of the beeed don't see the mechanical or practical solution that's staring themselves in the face

 

Had this exact issue. Tried the battery-related fixes (disconnect battery, hard reset), to no avail.
Dealer said "a control module needs to be reflashed", which sounded like a crock but what the hell.
Problem solved. This was five years ago and haven't had the issue since.

 

Thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions. When I called the dealer today to check on this they had just gotten off their call with the Jaguar field technician and it was now fixed. He said they were still missing a software patch and the field tech sent it to them and they uploaded it and that resolved the issue.
When I pick up the car tomorrow I'll try and get more details but I'm also wondering now why I'm being billed for 3 hours. I understand that troubleshooting can be hit or miss and solutions look obvious after the fact, but how many software patches can there possibly be on these cars? Shouldn't every car get updated with the latest software patches during maintenance visits?

 

There are two sides to this story, so it'll help if you know the other side. Your side is clear from the outset; your car had a birth defect that you didn't cause and, therefore, you shouldn't have to pay to fix it. That's logical, but there's more - the terms of sale; a binding contract.

This fault existed when your car left the factory. It was a defect in manufacturing that would have been covered under the factory new car warranty as well as the Jaguar Select Certified Pre-Owned Warranty. Unfortunately, your 2011 XKR is now out of warranty. This takes the factory off the hook, unless they decide to do a "customer accommodation".

Your best hope is to negotiate with the Jaguar dealer, as he has to pay the technician for the time he spent working on your car. Sure, the Factory will reimburse the dealer for the number of hours and rate allowed in that TSB, but that's probably less than what was actually spent working on your car. So the dealer is using you to cover his shortfall and make a profit.

What's fair? You knew that your car was out of warranty when you brought it in, and I'm sure that you had a conversation with the service writer about the cost. What to do is up to you. You can either build a bridge or burn it. Is the benefit worth the cost?

Your car, your money, your choice.

 

When I bought my 2010 XK, used, two previous owners, I had the same issue. Spent most of a day going down the path you did, using a DVM at the rear seat fuse box. and lots of pondering. I found someone's suggestion / solution in this forum which was to disconnect battery terms and short together 45 seconds or so. This brought success. Better living through electronics...

But then you said you already did a hard reset, so dunno...you have the best minds at the dealer working on this.

 

Tracee,
The OP, fangel, explained in post #7, above, that it's been fix by the dealer.
Stuart

 

I am glad that the problem has been fixed even though it took 10 or more hours (!) of 'expert' time to do it. Although some might see it as a kludge, if this sort of thing happened to me and I was told it might take a week in the shop and a resulting bill that a pelican would be reluctant to own, I would just rewire the lights myself, tapping off a nearby circuit which went live at the same time as the tail lights - eg the rear lights. Might be a kludge, I agree, but it would be invisible and it would work and it would be free!

 

Hmm...we shall see...the O/P said in his original posting that it had been "fixed" once before by the dealer, but didn't take. All this just to get a license plate light going.

 

Appreciate the thoughtful response. I agree that at this point in the car's life that I'm responsible for all the costs to troubleshoot and repair. I guess I'm thinking of two different issues: First is that what is a reasonable amount of time to troubleshoot a problem that has been identified to be caused by a software issue. We all know how much time can quickly go by troubleshooting a problem on our own devices, but is the additional couple of hours beyond the original one hour estimate due to their inability to get the patch uploaded or just the nature of these problems? Either way not a big cost, just wondering. Second, shouldn't all software patches be applied every time a car is brought in for service instead of only after a problem occurs? Perhaps its just not that easy to upload these patches and maybe there's a risk they could cause other problems.

 

I can't answer your questions, but since I am firmly in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' camp, I personally wouldn't want the garage to update any software on my car unless it was to solve a problem I had reported. Too often I have seen updated software fix nothing and cause problems that didn't exist to begin with. In this case, even if the garage said that they might be able to fix the problem by futzing with the software, I'd be cautious and ask them if they could do my 'rewire' trick to fix the problem. After all, it's a license plate light! Cars had license plate lights long before they had 'software'. There may be something I am not understanding, but it seems to me that if the rear lights work, then how hard can it be to connect those to the license plate lights?

 

All the points you made are valid reasons for negotiating with the dealer for a lower cost. The dealer told you how much he wants you to pay. You can either agree or decline to pay what he wants.

If you don't ask, you don't get. Good luck persuading the dealer to take less!

 

Well I got my car back today and the license plate lights are working. They ended up billing me for 3 hours and showed they had 12.5 hours of their own time! I was able to get a token reduction to 2.5 hrs so $600. Quite honestly I thought this was an easy fix going in and that the 1hr estimate would more than cover this but I've really had no experience with software patches on cars before. Apparently they were able to get the lights to work, but when the light switch was turned to the Auto or Running Light position they still didn't work. So when the Jag field tech looked through their files he noticed there was one patch missing and he sent that to them and that corrected the problem. With so many patches applied I now have a slight concern that something else might not work but from what I can tell no other glitches at this point. I asked them how software patches that Jag announces in a TSB are applied and he said that only when they have a problem with a car do they contact Jag and inquire about software patches. Fair enough, and I probably agree with Barnsie on this. Never encountered this type of repair and troubleshooting before so I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. Although next time I think I would just use a remote controlled battery operated LED light and stick it above the license plate

 

I agree with you one hundred percent here-- and the fact of the "Jaguar Field Technician" in the saga makes your point. They're a jaguar dealer, who had reach out to another Jaguar person who understood your issue. Which they now know. You should not be asked to pay for their training time. That's precisely why you're bringing it to a dealer and not an indie mechanic (and paying those rates).

Simple question: what would they bill the NEXT person who came in with the same issue? An hour? That's what you should be billed. (FYI I was billed 30 minutes-- which, sadly, was still eighty bucks...)

I'd also ask for the contact info for the tech who understood the issue. Tell them in the future you want to speak with someone knowledgeable. BOOM.

(FYI#2: ever since they did that reflash, I no longer have two "trip odometers." I have A, but B is gone. Check it out on your car. I'd be curious.)

 

Also, I just did the math: you took your car to a dealer that charges a shop rate of $240/hr? What is that for, if not expertise and peace of mind? If I were them I'd be ashamed to admit that I futzed around with the car for TWELVE HOURS before contacting someone who had the right solution.
I'm also curious: what, precisely, did they do during those TWELVE HOURS?
I'm further curious: are they trying to play the Good Guy card by suggesting they could have charged you $2,880 to fix your license plate light?!? To make $600 feel like a bargain??

 

@pk144 I checked my trip odometer. At first I didn't see mine either on the instrument display. But it was present on the information panel. When I selected B on the info panel it then was also displayed on the instrument panel. To be honest I can't recall if both A and B ever were both displayed, but relaying how mine currently appears.
And yes your math is correct, $240/hr. I live in San Francisco Bay Area and everything is more expensive here unfortunately. I normally use a different independent Jag shop for routine PM (I haven't needed any repairs) so I wasn't expecting that high an hourly rate, but my fault for not checking. Anyways, what did they do during those 12 hours? I have the feeling there were multiple people on the calls because they weren't familiar with this and that's how manhours got racked up.

 

Well you got it fixed, so that's good. Done and done.
But stories like yours -- a dealership "discounting" the bill down to $600 to repair a license plate light-- those, sadly, are what keep people from buying Jaguars.