XK / XKR ( X150 ) 2006 - 2014

Wheel spacers frowned upon by tire store

 
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:50 PM
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Default Wheel spacers frowned upon by tire store

I bought spacers for my MY 2008 XK Coupe, 20mm for the front and 15mm for the rear as many on the Forum have done.
When I went to my local tire store to have them installed I was read the riot act by the tech telling me I will throw everything out of wack and that an automobile engineered the way this one is should never be altered in any way.
Is this an issue? Really?
Has anyone else been told this?
Has anyone experienced ill affects from adding spacers?
Will I ruin my car over time because of extra leverage working against the bearings and suspension?
Please chime in!!
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:55 PM
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:08 PM
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Interesting read.
I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of those on the forum that have spacers, especially those with the 20mm/15mm configuration
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:26 PM
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Spacers on the back aren't really a big deal, but still not an ideal solution.

Spacers on the FRONT, now, messes up the scrub radius while cornering and turning. Not a catastrophe, but also not a good thing.

Excess pressures on the lugs also, as they aren't really meant to withstand forces farther out than what's meant, but again not a huge deal.

One thought for ya.................... the REAR wheels fit nicely on the front, fill up the well better due to extra width and more offset, and have more contact patch. Course, you'd need another set of rears for the back end again.
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
Spacers on the back aren't really a big deal, but still not an ideal solution.

Spacers on the FRONT, now, messes up the scrub radius while cornering and turning. Not a catastrophe, but also not a good thing.

Excess pressures on the lugs also, as they aren't really meant to withstand forces farther out than what's meant, but again not a huge deal.

One thought for ya.................... the REAR wheels fit nicely on the front, fill up the well better due to extra width and more offset, and have more contact patch. Course, you'd need another set of rears for the back end again.
Thanks.
I have to ask, if the rear wheels were to be put on the front, and fills the gap due to the offset, doesn't the scrub radius get affected anyway?
I understand there is more contact patch but would I not still be leveraging the suspension harder?
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:31 PM
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Since the wheels are wider, the centerline of the wheel is only off by 3mm compared to the 20mm with the spacers. 3mm is Infinitesimal with wheels that are 225mm wide.

The wider wheel and tire are probably the same weight difference as adding a spacer and five extra lugs to the existing front wheels. Plus wheel & tire weights are so all-over-the-place that weight isn't a concern.
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
... Spacers on the FRONT, now, messes up the scrub radius while cornering and turning. Not a catastrophe, but also not a good thing.

Excess pressures on the lugs also, as they aren't really meant to withstand forces farther out than what's meant, but again not a huge deal. ...
I'm not a fan of wheel spacers. For the wider look, buy wider aftermarket wheels with the proper offset that fit without spacers and get a 4-wheel alignment.

Spacers that are both hub centric and wheel centric shouldn't cause any additional pressure on the lugs (wheel studs) if they are properly manufactured, fitted and torqued. Even so, they're not a good idea notwithstanding what the manufacturers and retailers say.
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart S View Post
I'm not a fan of wheel spacers. For the wider look, buy wider aftermarket wheels with the proper offset that fit without spacers and get a 4-wheel alignment.

Spacers that are both hub centric and wheel centric shouldn't cause any additional pressure on the lugs (wheel studs) if they are properly manufactured, fitted and torqued. Even so, they're not a good idea notwithstanding what the manufacturers and retailers say.
It's alot cheaper with spacers then buying new wheels.
Can't see a problem with them, it's only 15 and 20mm!:-)
 
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:07 PM
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Your car, your choice. You've been warned and time will tell. Good luck!
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:58 AM
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Adding spacers or using wheels with a significantly smaller offset especially at the front is very noticable. It looks better if that is the look you want but feels worse to drive.

When I first came to Germany, I came across winter tyres for the first time. So, off I went to the tyre shop and ordered winter tyres and selected some pretty aftermarket wheels. The ET values were quite different - in the 20 mm range different and the tyre guy said it is not important. Neither car steered or handled as sweetly on the "wrong" wheels. I guess the tyre guy was just a fitter and no expert or engineer.

The wider track gives you the feeling of better stability but every other handling feature gets worse - bump steer, tramlining self-centering etc.. Since then, I refuse to go more than a couple of mm away from stock, accept that the original engineers know more about why they did what they did than me and have a car that is as consistent as the engineers could get.

Cars go through hundreds of thousands of miles of preproduction testing to get things just right. Changing adhoc one of the fundamental parameters of the suspension strikes me as risky, especially as we do actually know what problems it causes.

Also modern cars are mostly already over-tyred for road use due to marketing, adding even wider tyres also makes the car less nice to drive. Too much is driven by looks and not by engineering these days. We get used to the looks and put up with the dynamic compromises. My S-Type drives best on 16" wheels but looks a bit lame. I have 18" summer wheels which look just right, but the handling becomes a bit wooden in comparison. It depends a little on your driving style whether you notice these things or not but the compromises are definitely there.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by neilr View Post
Adding spacers or using wheels with a significantly smaller offset especially at the front is very noticable. It looks better if that is the look you want but feels worse to drive.

When I first came to Germany, I came across winter tyres for the first time. So, off I went to the tyre shop and ordered winter tyres and selected some pretty aftermarket wheels. The ET values were quite different - in the 20 mm range different and the tyre guy said it is not important. Neither car steered or handled as sweetly on the "wrong" wheels. I guess the tyre guy was just a fitter and no expert or engineer.

The wider track gives you the feeling of better stability but every other handling feature gets worse - bump steer, tramlining self-centering etc.. Since then, I refuse to go more than a couple of mm away from stock, accept that the original engineers know more about why they did what they did than me and have a car that is as consistent as the engineers could get.

Cars go through hundreds of thousands of miles of preproduction testing to get things just right. Changing adhoc one of the fundamental parameters of the suspension strikes me as risky, especially as we do actually know what problems it causes.

Also modern cars are mostly already over-tyred for road use due to marketing, adding even wider tyres also makes the car less nice to drive. Too much is driven by looks and not by engineering these days. We get used to the looks and put up with the dynamic compromises. My S-Type drives best on 16" wheels but looks a bit lame. I have 18" summer wheels which look just right, but the handling becomes a bit wooden in comparison. It depends a little on your driving style whether you notice these things or not but the compromises are definitely there.
Ever thought it might be the tire choice that made the difference? Winter tires are quite different in compound.
My car drives as sweet as before, no difference.

A major difference in ride was when I bought new, the old Michelin were still the OEM tire and the car was very nervous over the road. Bought 4 new and it was a like a another car and that was with spacers on old and new tire. 😊
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by peterv8 View Post
Ever thought it might be the tire choice that made the difference? Winter tires are quite different in compound.
My car drives as sweet as before, no difference.

A major difference in ride was when I bought new, the old Michelin were still the OEM tire and the car was very nervous over the road. Bought 4 new and it was a like a another car and that was with spacers on old and new tire. 😊
When putting the winter tyres on the original wheels and the summer tyres on the "wrong" wheels because they looked nicer, the problems swapped to the summer combination. The winter ones were "right" again. Winter tyres maybe less precise, etc, but spacer/ET changes are clearly noticable regardless of what type of tyre is being used. But some people are more sensitive to these changes. The S-Type has winters on the 16" and summers on the 18" - it drives better on the 16" and that is with factory ET wheels. Non-studded winter tyres are pretty good these days.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:49 AM
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Cee Jay, Very interesting out of the box thinking! I think I need to investigate this further...

Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
Spacers on the back aren't really a big deal, but still not an ideal solution.

Spacers on the FRONT, now, messes up the scrub radius while cornering and turning. Not a catastrophe, but also not a good thing.

Excess pressures on the lugs also, as they aren't really meant to withstand forces farther out than what's meant, but again not a huge deal.

One thought for ya.................... the REAR wheels fit nicely on the front, fill up the well better due to extra width and more offset, and have more contact patch. Course, you'd need another set of rears for the back end again.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
One thought for ya.................... the REAR wheels fit nicely on the front, fill up the well better due to extra width and more offset, and have more contact patch. Course, you'd need another set of rears for the back end again.
Obvious downside is even lower resistance to aquaplaning and you don't really get a bigger contact patch, you get a thinner wider one, usually resulting in more extreme on the limit grip change. Do it if you want but it is technically very questionable.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by neilr View Post
............ you get a thinner wider one, usually resulting in more extreme on the limit grip change. ...............
Thinner? How so? Larger diameter means more on the bottom, so thicker, not thinner. A whopping 30mm wider tire when they are already 265 isn't even 10% wider, and besides all that, tire DESIGN is the most critical for hydroplaning, not contact patch.
Your reasoning is flawed.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by guy View Post
Cee Jay, Very interesting out of the box thinking! I think I need to investigate this further...
I've been searching for another set of Nevis rears to do this. Searching for THREE YEARS now, since I don't want to pay the ridiculous $600+ each to do it especially considering that I'd contemplate having the 'new' set widened to 11 inches to hold 315-25 tires. Course, after the widening I'd need the 15mm spacers on the rear.
Failing all THAT, I found the perfect sizing for a set of custom rears; 20 x 11 wit a 49 offset (ET49).

I'm still waiting to do the deed as I first need to build another shop/garage first and more importantly.
 
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:11 PM
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Default Wheel spacers


Im running wheel spacers in the rear. No problem whatsoever. Then again, I don’t drive my car like I’m in a slot car either. Just make sure you buy quality spacers not the Chinese made ones....
 
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
Thinner? How so? Larger diameter means more on the bottom, so thicker, not thinner. A whopping 30mm wider tire when they are already 265 isn't even 10% wider, and besides all that, tire DESIGN is the most critical for hydroplaning, not contact patch.
Your reasoning is flawed.
Wider tyre means a wider but shorter contact patch. Weight stays the same so patch area stays the same.

For arguments sake, tyre design stays the same. If you have 4x tyre X, you will have the same tyres again, no? So not relevant. Wider tyres aquaplane more.

I have 2 sets of Nevis wheels but I would never dream of putting the other rear ones on the front.
 
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Versatile2 View Post
and that an automobile engineered the way this one is should never be altered in any way.
Gotta disagree with this, Engineers are always striking compromises.

Take the new Aston Martin hypercar engine video that Q&C posted not too long ago.

They put the the valve train parts on backwards to reduce noise to the chassis.

It added weight, and was not the ideal performance option.

If your real priority is what you desire the car looks like, then that trumps whatever compromise was originally in place.

Your primary concern is going to be increased peak loads which will shorten the life of certain parts. If you're willing to pay the price than this may not matter.

Something to keep in mind, not having your tire pushed out to or past the fender lines will prevent dirt/gravel hitting the side of your car.

My Z06 Corvette is pretty bad about that.
 
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:25 PM
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Get four of these if you're avoiding hydroplaning;


20mm ain't gonna do nuthin' to affect hydroplaning. If it's a concern with that extra less-than-an-inch, get rid of your wider rears because evidently they are phenomenally dangerous.

Now stop this crazy talk.
 

Last edited by Cee Jay; 04-27-2019 at 02:27 PM.

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