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XKR-S Replacement engine / Tune/ Upper& Lower pulleys

XK / XKR ( X150 ) 2006 - 2014

XKR-S Replacement engine / Tune/ Upper& Lower pulleys

 
  #81  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen and Country View Post
This is what I suspected and was wondering while R Bhal had the engine out if he could figure out a way. Especially since he is willing to go above and beyond the factory.

I could tell by the opening aperture on my side that they would be useless. Even though I recently read an interview with the XK designer where he said those side vents provided some relief.
I can attest to " some relief" -On the rallys, every time we would stop, I would pop open the hood and let her breathe- and I could feel the hot air pumping out of those side vents...so I'm sure it did something
 
  #82  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by R Bhal View Post
I can attest to " some relief" -On the rallys, every time we would stop, I would pop open the hood and let her breathe- and I could feel the hot air pumping out of those side vents...so I'm sure it did something
Same here. I feel a little coming from my vertical vents (different from yours).
But the vents are only utilizing 15% of the available real estate.
Moreover, the underhood temps are too high and there is tremendous heatsoak. I can comeback to warmer engine than the one I left.
And its not like we have heat-tested ultra-durable plastics in our engine bay.
 
  #83  
Old 07-18-2019, 10:13 AM
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Default Whooohooooo- back up and running!

Hello gents.
My baby is back, and so far better than ever! Joel, (my tech) from now on known as the 5.0 litre whisperer, is taking her back tomorrow to change the diff fluid/ trans fluid, brake fluid- at that time he will also upload the custom tune from Viezu. We drove it around yesterday with all the mods except for the tune and the supercharger coolant pump.
Boy oh boy does she go! I called up my buddy with his lambo and lets just say he didnt want to race play anymore. - citing speed limits -MooHahahahaha. (evil laugh)i drove her hard yesterday and Joel called me in the evening to check and make sure there were no codes- lights etc. Great guy! I have had her back for less than a day and i have a stupid grin on my face every time I get in the car. The torque is awesome as is the sound. The supercharger whine is intoxicating-Joel suggested to leave off the plastic/rubbery covers around the valve covers, and while he was at it he painted them with 5 coats of metallic BRG. He is saying we should send off the supercharger cover and have it powder coated in the same metallic BRG. Love the idea.
So, I shall try to stop gushing- and give you some real feedback on the driving.
The car seems more capable. Torque is definitely up as is the overall feel of the power delivery. It pulls strongly through all gears approaching illegal speeds ridiculously fast.
Once again this is all with the factory tune and just the mechanical parts- supercharger pulley, crank pulley and supercharger cooler. Joel says the car is currently running lean but once he uploads the Viezu tune he will also change the plugs and that should fix that.
The tune( so far) was plug and play- we drove the car for a few km and uploaded the original file to the device Viezu sent to me , then we registered to their portal and uploaded the original file with some pertinent info- Viezu has sent back a custom tune and i will be sure to update you guys once installed.

A couple of notes of interest- as the charge cooler is thicker -less air gets to air con unit behind it- so whilst the car is sitting it pumps in relatively not so cold air - but is perfectly fine once the car is moving. The price we pay for performance.
Also, installing the upgraded supercharger cooler pump with the controller requires Joel to fabricate a harness of sorts to tie into the otherwise the car will thow a code and put the car into limp mode. He is working on that solution.

I think i will get the car dynod once everthing is done. Im already pulling away from a stock lambo and the tune is not even on the car. I want to know where i really am as opposed to just guessing. The 5.0 whisperer says to take it to one where they take the wheels off and attach to the hub instead of the rollers. Any input on that would be greatly appreciated.


My cousin from the UK posing

Ready to be released into the concrete jungle

All back together!

See the green peeking through
 
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  #84  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:43 AM
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And by the way, my XKR has always pumped in warmer air during stops or idling, and then goes back to pushing cold air when driving, so yours is not unusual.
 
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  #85  
Old 07-18-2019, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gkubrak View Post
Or an open duct underneath the car that would use the low pressure passing air to pull the air out of the hot spot. That would also force air form the front grille to make its way to the back of the engine bay.
Do you suppose running without the undertray would help with temps or would it be too detrimental to aerdynamics?
 
  #86  
Old 07-18-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by XJ8JR View Post
Do you suppose running without the undertray would help with temps or would it be too detrimental to aerdynamics?
DO NOT DO THAT!!!!
I know of a guy (Mandrake, used to be in the forum) who did this. At higher speeds his entire bonnet would shudder and vibrate to the point it scared the dude. He put the tray back on and the problem went away.
 
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  #87  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:18 AM
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Running the stock tune on a modified motor, especially with the larger crank pulley and I assume a smaller supercharger pulley is an absolute recipe for disaster. Read the manufacturers warnings. Combine that with hot ambient temperatures and you are on a very fine knife edge. The car will be running so lean you seriously risk burning a piston or two. At best the car will be pulling timing and dumping as much fuel as possible trying to cool the combustion chambers to avoid spark knock.
 
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  #88  
Old 07-19-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mufc View Post
Running the stock tune on a modified motor, especially with the larger crank pulley and I assume a smaller supercharger pulley is an absolute recipe for disaster. Read the manufacturers warnings. Combine that with hot ambient temperatures and you are on a very fine knife edge. The car will be running so lean you seriously risk burning a piston or two. At best the car will be pulling timing and dumping as much fuel as possible trying to cool the combustion chambers to avoid spark knock.
Good to know- last thing i need right now is another problem. Revised tune goes on the car today. 👍
 
  #89  
Old 07-19-2019, 11:17 AM
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Default Ooops-

Just dropped the car back to the "5 0 whisperer"
Told him i worked the car quite hard- kinda got told off. He did originally say not to push her too hard. I showed him mufcs' post about potential consequences and he nodded sagely-

Ooops. Got excited.

But all should be good. He said he will check her out. The new tune goes on shortly and Joel will change out the plugs.
Last thing i need is to mess it up at this stage.
 
  #90  
Old 07-19-2019, 01:34 PM
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One sure way to kill a forced induction car is to lean it out. This is how you get excessive heat that leads to detonations. I suspect that your old engine suffered just such fate (due to a bad tune), looking to how it all melted then ceased. Stock tune has multiple maps just to prevent such thing - when things get hot it adjusts timing, cuts power and goes into thermal protection mode. Inexperienced tuning can lead to overwriting both maps, losing this safety mechanism. Tracking my F-type, thermal map does kick-in on hot days (30C+)even with a stock tune, no pulleys, and no engine cover.

So, when you put pulleys with a stock map and then get into redline, you are pushing more air than expected and almost certainly leaning it out. Combine it with a hot weather and you could easily end up in need of a third engine. I highly recommend you do an oil change right away, as even if you didn't end up damaging anything, excessive heat quite likely degraded the oil.
 

Last edited by SinF; 07-19-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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  #91  
Old 07-19-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by R Bhal View Post
Also, installing the upgraded supercharger cooler pump with the controller requires Joel to fabricate a harness of sorts to tie into the otherwise the car will thow a code and put the car into limp mode. He is working on that solution.
Can you document this mod for others to follow?
 
  #92  
Old 07-19-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mufc View Post
Running the stock tune on a modified motor, especially with the larger crank pulley and I assume a smaller supercharger pulley is an absolute recipe for disaster. Read the manufacturers warnings. Combine that with hot ambient temperatures and you are on a very fine knife edge. The car will be running so lean you seriously risk burning a piston or two. At best the car will be pulling timing and dumping as much fuel as possible trying to cool the combustion chambers to avoid spark knock.
The pulleys won't make any additional peak boost unless the software is changed, because the bypass valve will just open sooner and bleed it off unless commanded to remain closed.
 
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  #93  
Old 07-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
Can you document this mod for others to follow?
For sure. Will ask him.
 
  #94  
Old 07-19-2019, 03:10 PM
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I didn't realize Budd's did custom tunes , I know of them but have never actually been .
 
  #95  
Old 07-19-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
One sure way to kill a forced induction car is to lean it out. This is how you get excessive heat that leads to detonations. I suspect that your old engine suffered just such fate (due to a bad tune), looking to how it all melted then ceased. Stock tune has multiple maps just to prevent such thing - when things get hot it adjusts timing, cuts power and goes into thermal protection mode. Inexperienced tuning can lead to overwriting both maps, losing this safety mechanism. Tracking my F-type, thermal map does kick-in on hot days (30C+)even with a stock tune, no pulleys, and no engine cover.

So, when you put pulleys with a stock map and then get into redline, you are pushing more air than expected and almost certainly leaning it out. Combine it with a hot weather and you could easily end up in need of a third engine. I highly recommend you do an oil change right away, as even if you didn't end up damaging anything, excessive heat quite likely degraded the oil.
Yes - oil cahnge is a good idea- just for peace of mind.
Well hopefully someone else can learn from my mistake and not get too excited and listen to what the tech has to say - i wish i had listened to him and not have this worry. Good news is Joel doesn't seem too concerned right now. Will keep you guys updated.
Also the old engine was on a stock tune. This is the first time i am doing any mods to the car - so we dont think it was the tune that grenaded the old engine. Joel says it was oil not getting to cylinder 1- some kind of restriction or seal failure. The old engine didnt show any warning lights or notices when she went kaput.
 
  #96  
Old 07-19-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadacat View Post
I didn't realize Budd's did custom tunes , I know of them but have never actually been .

No they don't- i got the tune from Viezu/ Paramount in the UK and Joel agreed to do it for me at the shop with blessings from the service manager- Bill. They will not touch any car that is under factory warranty with this sort of stuff.
I am lucky to have great relationships with them. I also have never taken my car to anyone but to a Jag dealer. Where in the GTA are you?
 
  #97  
Old 07-19-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by R Bhal View Post
it was oil not getting to cylinder 1- some kind of restriction or seal failure.
When this engine was first revealed, one of the improvements in design they bragged about in an article was a complete revamp of the oil strategy by reducing of the oil passages and thereby reducing size of oil pump required. Something to that effect. I wish I had saved the article.
After about 40k miles on my engine I noticed symptoms of inadequate oil flow. So just on theory, I aggressively cleaned the oil passages and the symptoms went away.
I completely believe in your case an oil passage could have been restricted.

What oil did you use in the old engine? do you know for sure.
 
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  #98  
Old 07-19-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The pulleys won't make any additional peak boost unless the software is changed, because the bypass valve will just open sooner and bleed it off unless commanded to remain closed.
Curious. Even without the tune and just the mechanical upgrades the car is faster for sure. Do the pulleys not do anything by themselves at all? Because my experience for the 2 days with the car with the pulleys and factory tune definitely improved response and power.
Or does it just get me to peak boost on the original tune faster?
I was told i would see gains if i just changed the supercharger pulley and leave the facotry tune on the car. But if i changed the crank pulley i would absolutely need a revised tune.
 
  #99  
Old 07-19-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen and Country View Post
When this engine was first revealed, one of the improvements in design they bragged about in an article was a complete revamp of the oil strategy by reducing of the oil passages and thereby reducing size of oil pump required. Something to that effect. I wish I had saved the article.
After about 40k miles on my engine I noticed symptoms of inadequate oil flow. So just on theory, I aggressively cleaned the oil passages and the symptoms went away.
I completely believe in your case an oil passage could have been restricted.

What oil did you use in the old engine? do you know for sure.
All services were completed with Jaguar authorized dealers Metro West and Budds, so it would be whatever was recommended by JLR.
 
  #100  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The pulleys won't make any additional peak boost unless the software is changed, because the bypass valve will just open sooner and bleed it off unless commanded to remain closed.
Surely with a larger crank pulley and smaller upper, the boost level at say 2000rpm will be much higher
than with stock pulleys. So the mapping will be off. I was under the impression the bypass on the XK was vacuum controlled and not electronically controlled like the later model F-Type ? Please feel free to clarify. Thanks.
 

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