Hey All...

Been a while. Lots of new-ness here and for the most part cars have been parked up. I don't drive to work anymore, makes me sad. Hoping to cut out some time in the spring and summer to drop tops and go on long drives.

In that, some of y'all might remember me bringing back a 2004 XKR that had been in a Texas flood from an early grave. The trans was full of water, had to flush several times with a cheap trans fluid, then I "refilled" with SP... I want to flush and fill again and I came across this article and I wonder what folks think about it...

I am NOT a transmission guy by stretch of the imagination!

I am NOT trying to start a great debate, or fight. It's just that $$$$$ is tight (new house and a SLEW of new bills) and LV can be found more readily and for a better price.

This article argues the LV is just the bump up from SP! Can this be true? Does it carry to the ZF transmission? Seems reasonable to think that it might...? Anyways,,, got thoughts?

https://www.ficmrepair.com/index.cfm...%20the%20same.

 

We know that Mercon SP is essentially Lifeguard 6 colored red instead of amber. We also know that some of us ZF 6HP26 owners have been running it for nearly a decade with zero issues. Without carefully studying all the spec sheets for LV, I would not assume it is also compatible....

 

"...both Mercon LV and Mercon SP are different lubricants, but they are pretty much the same" doesn't inspire much confidence. Which is it?

Hopefully Don B will drop by with an opinion on the viscosity thing.

 

Hey y'all. Hey Mike! It's been a while.

I haven't done anything yet to the car, just scratching my head.

They are a TECH group. I'm going to call them and press a little. I read something a few minutes ago on a FORD forum where the argument rages. And in ONE of many many posts there was a quote saying that there were a few FORD made lines that used a ZF transmission and that the ZF transmission vehicle are EXCLUDED from the universality of using LV in place of SP so,,, yeah, I'm still confused. I mean,,,

If it's the same stuff,,, it's the same stuff. BUT, in my mind, if it's the same stuff, why make a new stuff (the LV) in the first place? Maybe a marketing thing? Or maybe an advancement in the production of one of the ingredients - or maybe a new ingredient all together - that allowed them to drop the price but demanded a name change? Who knows.

These doggone manufacturers. Never know what's driving or motivating them - it's complex.

I'll call them now and report back.

 

Hi Jay - hope you're good?
New house will keep you busy. Two years nearly into our move and there's still lots to do.

I guess it's the connection that Ford specs SP for their ZF boxes that prompted the leap of faith to try it in our 4.2L cars. It would be interesting to get their take on LV's backward compatibility.

 

Wikipedia's MERCON article says the 6HP26 is to continue using Mercon SP...

 

Interesting. Thank you, Man.

There must be something about the 6hp, something unique, setting it apart from the Torqshift version that makes it so it can't be included in that broad switch, and I would like to know what it is... Clutch materials?

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. Amazon,,, the LV can be had for 32 bucks a gallon/5liters... I would love to buy 3 gallons and flush and fill x 2 or 3 my trans as best I'm able.

 

Could be as simple as nobody spent the money/time to test it to determine Mercon LV is no worse than Mercon SP.

Also, the ZF 6HP "becomes" a 6R in the Ford world (6R60, 6R80). The Torqshift is just another animal.

 

Any worse, lolololol.... I like your style, Man...

I been working on these things lately...

 

Deleted. Double post. Text on NYC subways malfunction 😊

 

6HP27?

 

Some of the Mercon SP and Mercon LV info was covered in my earlier thread -https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xk8-xkr-x100-17/6th-gear-downshift-noise-squawk-after-fluid-change-6hp26-info-265689/- We are in process of having the XL16 #1 additive added to the XK8. Plan to update when the results are conclusive and several miles added as test. A material change in the E Clutch plates in 2014-2014 was reason for the LV intro.

 

Hi Jay,

As transmission fluid questions go, yours is fairly easy to answer. Ford has never specified Mercon LV for use in the 6HP26 or their licensed versions, 6R60 and 6R75.

At the link below you can find the Motorcraft ATF Application chart dated January 2020, which shows all the different gearboxes for which Mercon LV and Mercon SP are specified.

Motorcraft ATF Application Chart

I am not aware of any evidence that Mercon LV is an evolution of Mercon SP. If anything, it could be considered an evolution of Mercon V, since Ford updated from V to LV for the 4R75W/E and 6F50N/55N. And Ford did retroactively specify Mercon LV for the 4F27E and 5R110, which predate Ford's use of the 6HP26. But Ford still specifies Mercon SP for the 6HP26/6R60/6R75. .

SP and LV are different chemically. For example, according to the Material Safety Data Sheets, the kinematic viscosity of Mercon SP at 40°C is 26.8 mm2/s, which is exactly the same as that of Zf Lifeguard 6 and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP, the only other two fluids known to be correct in the 6HP26. The KV40 of Mercon LV is 28 - 32 mm2/s, a bit "thicker" than Mercon SP. Comparing another criterion, the flash point of Mercon SP is 210.0 °C, while the flash point of Mercon LV is >=170.0 °C. This suggests the fluids are made with significantly different base oils. Unfortunately, these MSDS's do not disclose the base oils or toxic/hazardous additives, but I can probably produce documents that do if anyone wants to get into the weeds.

When the 6HP26 was introduced, ZF made a big deal about the close tolerances and narrow passages required to fit 6 forward gears into the same space previously occupied by 5. So the simultaneous introduction of a new, very-low-viscosity fluid made perfect sense. It seems unlikely that Ford would subsequently introduce a higher-viscosity fluid for this close-tolerance gearbox while ZF continued to specify the thinner Lifeguard 6.

Below are links to MSDS's for Mercon SP and Mercon LV for comparison.

Ford Motorcraft Mercon SP MSDS

Ford Motorcraft Mercon LV MSDS

The Mercon SP MSDS, dated 2015, gives the color of the fluid as "brown," which is the same color as Lifeguard 6 and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP. Subsequently, Shell added red dye to Mercon SP at the request of Ford to help its technicians differentiate transmission fluid leaks from engine oil leaks.

As I mentioned, the only three fluids known to be correct in the 6HP26 are ZF Lifeguard 6, Ford Motorcraft Mercon SP, and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP. This has been confirmed in at least four significant ways:
1) All three fluids are manufactured by Shell (LG6 and Spirax in Europe, Mercon SP in North America);
2) Ford uses Mercon SP in its versions of the 6HP26;
3) Carefull comparison of the official Material Safety Data Sheets for the three fluids that show identical viscosities and similar disclosed ingredients; and
4) A Blackstone Labs analysis of Lifeguard 6 and Mercon SP conducted for bimmerfest forum member fun2drive showed that the two fluids are so similar as to likely be different production runs of the same formula (which makes perfect sense, because the fluids are manufactured on two different continents).

For those who are tempted or deceived, I strongly advise against using a third-party fluid such as Valvoline MaxLife or Castrol Transmax that claims to be equivalent to Mercon SP. They are no more equivalent to Mercon SP than they are to Lifeguard 6. I have pointed out the implausibility of their claims many times in many threads because they make me mad.

In the U.S., Mercon SP can typically be found for $10.00 to $11.00 per quart when purchased in a case of 12 quarts. I price-shop the local Ford dealership, Advance Auto Parts store, and Amazon and eBay sellers.

Since the transmission is the second-most expensive component in the vehicle and fluid-related failures can take tens of thousands of miles to manifest, my own view is that it makes sense to eat rice and beans for a few meals and spend the money saved on a fluid approved by the transmission engineers. We second-guess the engineers at our peril.

Cheers,

Don

 

using the “right” fluid isn’t stopping any failures. bad bushings are still bad

just use any aftermarket multi vehicle LV fluid.outside of old mopar and honda they are all copy and pasted from the same formula.

afton and lubrizol have the ATF additive packages dialed in to a science. shell dials them up when they need a ready to go trans fluid for OEs.

 

Hi xalty,

Which aftermarket Mercon LV fluid would you recommend? The OP's transmission is a 6HP26.

Cheers,

Don

 

anything that says multi vehicle lv, transtar valvoline, shell, castrol who cares. all modern step shift transmission fluids are the same stuff from the same 2 add pack makers

 

Are you suggesting that Afton and Lubrizol make all the OE transmission fluids for all the modern transmission makers? That can be easily disproved.

Regarding your statement that "all modern step shift transmission fluids are the same stuff from the same 2 add pack makers," are you referring to the fluid suppliers to the professional transmission repair shops that claim they can make any transmission fluid from a base (such as Dexron VI) plus a combination of additives? I have to wonder how they could possibly use the same base fluid to make fluids equivalent to Dexron III (kinematic viscosity at 40°C of 38 - 44 mm2/s), Lifeguard 6 (KV40 of 26.8 mm2/s) and Mercedes-Benz ATF 236.15 (KV40 of 17.4 mm2/s). Something doesn't add up.

Regarding the "multi-vehicle" fluids from Valvoline, Castrol and others, their claims of compatability with multiple, very different transmission fluids can be easily shown to be implausible and at odds with the specifications of the transmission makers themselves. I have done so repeatedly on these forums.

And if Ford doesn't recommend Mercon LV in the 6HP26, on what authority would you recommend it?

Cheers,

Don