Hello all!

First off, thank you for all of your help in the past on other areas of the forum. It has been greatly appreciated as I have been working on the Estate, but now I think thought that I may have really stepped in it...

Last week I fell in love with a very sad and lonely XK8. It's a '97 4.0 Coupe with 148,000 miles, Sapphire Blue over Cream, failed clear coat that is truly impressive in how bad it is (don't buy cars at night should be my rule #1) and as far as I can tell hasn't been running for more than a few minutes at a time for least 4 years if not more.

I was eventually able to start it before purchase and get it to run and drive for an "around the block" so there is some hope on the horizon (even though Reverse seems very questionable). Now that she is home I am hoping that your expertise can help me not make too many mistakes in getting it as close to a Daily as is possible with a 20 year old car.

I have put together a list of the items that I suspect should be done prior to getting too deep into this. These steps I hope will prevent me from going down my usual rabbit hole of ordering "ALL!" the parts and then wind up with something that doesn't work or is unnecessary to getting it running.

1. New Battery (and a tender to keep it up while it's being worked on)
2. Compression test (especially as it is a '97 and a Nikasil engine)
3. Fuel Pressure test (to try and sort what seems to be a weak fuel system)
4. Fuel filter (cheap and possibly(?) part of the cranking issue)
5. Oil Change
6. Cooling system flush and fill
7. Transmission filter, gasket and inspect valve body (if that's possible with just the pan off?), Refill with fresh fluid
8. Valve cover gaskets (the right/passenger side spark plugs are soaked in oil, the left/driver side is getting there)

• Check primary and secondary timing chain bits and pieces while the covers are off

Anything else I should look at or check before doing some longer laps around the neighborhood and getting deeper into it?? Realizing of course that I am a driveway hobbyist without a garage or a lift so that may tweak some of the advice.

Thank you all in advance for your help with this as I am very excited about this project especially as I have always loved the coupe shape and to have one even in the driveway as yard art is pretty cool

 

Welcome to the forum extheaterkid,

If the compressions are OK you can stop worrying about Nikasil. The sulphur content in fuel which caused rapid wear when these vehicles were introduced has long gone and if it's lasted to 148k miles, it's not likely to be an issue.

You could be lucky finding a partially blocked fuel filter but the low pressure is probably a failing pump.

I would certainly take a critical look at all cooling system rubber and plastic components. Rubber deteriorates over time as well as use so the hoses will be overdue for replacement.

Transmission could be the big $$$ issue but a fluid and filter change may resurrect it.

Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

In the starting sequence the # 1 fuel pump will turn on for 3 - 5 seconds to charge the fuel rail then turn off . As the engine ECU sees engine rotation by the Crankshaft position sensor the fuel pump is commanded back on for the duration of the drive . This is a safety / crash design feature . The Crankshaft sensor can partially fail in one aspect but not fully . You may or may not have noticed the tachometer rise on the gauges . You can have someone put a finger on the fuel pump relay and feel for the commanded clicks . The normally aspirated engine has 1 fuel pump and the S/C has a 2nd that is not used in the start sequence unless the ECU sees a failure to start after a period of time . Some but not all of the V8 engines have a fitting on the fuel rail to put a pressure gauge . You can still see full fuel pressure with a clogged filter or under performing fuel pump but not required volume .

The spark and injector control comes from a different Camshaft sensor that has a more precise way of knowing where each cylinder is where the Crankshaft sensor can only see the # 1 master cylinder is and must learn wither that # 1 is at TDC of the ignition or the intake stroke is by trying by shifting between the 2 possibilities that the # 1 cylinder is really at . If the ECU can't see a degraded Camshaft sensor by the initial designed way it reverts over time to the Crankshaft sensor and uses it which takes more rotations to start . After a successful start up all engine regulation shifts to the Crankshaft sensor . Camsaft sensor CEL # P0340 .

There is a possibility or a bore wash phenomena accruing during this long start process which is the raw fuel washing off the oil film from the cylinder walls so you lose your compression for a successful light off . This can be reset by holding the gas pedal all the way down which cuts the fuel off and allow the rotating engine to bring up some oil to recoat the cylinder walls to bring them back to normal condition . In extreme cases you can pull the plugs and put a teaspoon of oil and rotating the engine through to recoat like you would a Nikasil scenario .

In the heat of battle the ECU will dies as the battery gets below 11.5 volt so you'll get no start .

Look no parts , but do change the fuel filter as a foundation and regular maintenance item .

Old fuel could be a factor also . After you resolve that you can put a fuel injector cleaner in the tank ( Textron is recommended by many ) as the shortest pulse time operation is most critical in the low RPM's

You can swap the fuel pump relay as it my be pitted and not carring the current for pump operation .

See blue circled relays in pic

Never put the battery in backwards as you reinstall it , take your time with a cool head in the heat of battle .

Any questions , just ask , and someone will assist you along .

I haven't had my bowl of Fruit Loops yet so my brain hasn't had a successful light off

 

At a minimum update the secondary tensioners to the metal body before you destroy the engine, but the full replacement set of chains, tensioners and guides should be done. When you have the pan off the transmission remove the forward valve body and replace the main pressure valve with the ZF upgrade or the trans-go.

I'm in the Atlanta area, so if you have a abs light come over and we'll use my Autoenginuity software to locate the problem.

 

Congratulations on your recent purchase. I'm in the same boat, having re-animated a similar '97 coupe that didn't run when parked. Your list sounds pretty good. I have to differ with you on the compression check, though. I've never checked mine, because I'm afraid of what I might find ! If you don't have blue or white smoke, do you really want to know more? (Perhaps this is just my hang up.)

Other than that, I would say get an ELM327 based scanner tool (about $20 bucks including the cell phone software) and see what it tells you. I think the fact that the car ran before you bought it is a big plus.

Enjoy !

 

Good afternoon all and thank you so much for the warm welcome, nearly instantaneous replies and early help.

First update on the progress:

• New battery is in and the 8 is electrically alive and showing 13.6 on the tender, there are several messages in the info display but no Check Engine light
  • Stability Control fail
  • Battery not charging
  • Boot open (even though it is firmly shut, probable bad micro switch?)
  • Assorted low fluids etc.
• I did go AGM for the battery format as I have had very good luck with their reliability even though I understand that the 8 was designed for lead-acid

All of those items are down the list right now as I am more concerned with "is she basically salvageable?"

The Compression test is complete and there is reasonably good news.

Firewall
1: 120ish ------5:160
2: 155 --------- 6: 160
3: 160---------- 7: 160
4: 135---------- 8: 157
Front of car.

In my mind these numbers are all very solid and shouldn't be a concern with moving forward?? #1 scares me a little but it doesn't seem that out of line given age and condition? Also with every retest it continued to climb.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated as this is where I would draw the line; getting that deep into the motor is just beyond my resources.

I did find the Schrader valve on the fuel rail and while I haven't been able to properly configure the pressure tester, I am fairly convinced that there is at least a clogged fuel filter, bad fuel (as GGG and Lady P. mentioned, thank you!) or a weak fuel pump / relay as there is next to no pressure in the rail when I trip the valve. Further diagnosis is in order here but doesn't seem insurmountable as the coupe has tank access without full removal of the tank, correct?

Next up is valve covers off to look at timing gear...

 

Thank you all for the input so far, it's massively appreciated! A longer post with progress is coming shortly.

 

Congratulations on your buy! It seems like you have the right attitude and willingness to handle the project. There are a couple of guys currently on the forum that are in the process of reviving flood damaged cars, so there is no shortage of courage among our tribe! Once you get it up and running then drive it as much as you can, gremlins seem to stay away from cars that are regularly used. Have fun with your adventure!

 

Put some marvel mystery oil in the 1 and 4 cylinder then turn the engine through to force it into the rings and let it set overnight . This is after you try to get it started on a consistent basic without doing the previous procedure . After you get it running put some Rislon oil treatment in the oil tank .

Put your finger on the fuel pump relay and count 3 clicks in the starting sequence as it may be intermittent since it started before . Swap relays if you get the 3 clicks but no fuel pressure . Remove and clean the fuse socket # 3 / 5 amp trunk fuse box as this is the relay control fuse other then the power to the pump .

You can skip all the fuel pump control mumbo jumble and just put a jumper in the 2 large relay sockets . High current arcing hazard so battery disconnect and blade type connectors in the sockets as the last electrical hookup is the battery reconnect .

 

End of Day 1 and some progress has been made:

Given the successful Compression check (and Lady Penelope's reminder about a good Marvel soak), I decided that it was solid enough to move forward.

The Good News: Secondary timing chains (cam to cam) are the newest generation parts with what look to be in brand new condition.

The bad news:

• Both of the breather hoses are shot, crumbling in my hands as I tried to pull them. Will be adding them to the parts/make list
• Initially I thought that with the secondaries done that the lower would have been done as well but no dice. The primary timing chain hardware looks to be all original through the inspection camera and from what I can see up top.
• The cooling system is pretty close to toast, with what looks to be an original water pump, a leaking thermostat tower and somewhat crispy hoses. Also the overflow is leaking somewhere.

So here's my next thought:

Order up some parts: (only took 24 hours for that to happen... )

• Looking at Christopher's '97 XK8 Kit even though it has the secondaries in it figuring I can pass them on to someone here. Also since I have to be in there I might as well get all the little gaskets and seals. They also rent all of the tools as I am hesitant to try this without all the help I can get. But any other suggestions here is appreciated.
  • In the meantime even if I get it running I suspect I shouldn't do more than move it around the driveway until this is done, correct?
• Cooling bits (water pump, hoses, aluminum thermostat tower etc.)
• Intake Manifold gaskets (to get to the hoses in the valley)
• New breather hoses

While waiting for the bits and bobs:

Figure out fuel issues: using Lady P's advice on the circuit path / relays and figure out next steps there.
Start working on Filter and Fill for the transmission

Any other solutions in the meantime (besides spending 2 hours trying to decide what colour mesh grille I "have to have")?

 

Be very careful not to overheat the engine. It's a 'low volume, high flow rate' cooling system and temperatures rise quickly if volume or flow are impaired. Overheating is as big an engine killer as failed tensioners.

You're making great progress.

Graham

 

Changed your brake fluid?

 

Don't spend to much time on fuel pump circuit / control . Go ahead and jumper the relay for possibly quicker success on starting and go back to normal setup later . Straight hoses at the auto parts store and the bend ones here and here . Note your VIN # on the parts .

https://www.sngbarratt.com/us/#!/Eng.../48/all/1/10/1

https://www.jaguarclassicparts.com/u...cooling-system

 

You probably should also drop the oil pan and check for any pieces of primary or secondary tensioner fragments. Christopher's auto is a great resource.

 

Hi everybody, sorry about the massive delay in following up with you all on the work that has been occuring. As I am sure has happened to all of us, actual paying work, cost of moving forward, the other project car that you also daily got in the way... But over the last week or so i have been able to pull the tarp back and try again.

Where we stand now:

The cooling system is shot. Needs all new front and intake cross over hoses, replace the original(?!) water pump, thermostat tower and stat, new reservoir (as the current one leaks like a sieve) and figure out if the octopus is solid. Once those are square, dig deeper and see what else needs work.

As noted before, Secondary chains will need to be replaced. Priced out parts and got some solid deals so good news there.

Fuel pump is dead or close to it.

Full tune up and replacement of all the breather hoses

More to come...

 

So some good news and some bad news...

Got a new coolant reservoir and breather hoses over the weekend and got them installed. The worst of the coolant leak seems to be solved! That said there are defs other leaks to correct but at least it safe for the moment. Reinstalled the valve covers and the breathers and got it started for the first time in weeks and even got to run it around the block!

Now the bad news and something I can use the collectives help with....

The transmission feels like it is hashed. When cold it will go into the forward gears without issue, reverse still has a delay but no major bang or shudder. Once the car is moving things seem to go swimmingly. Then it heats up. After five to ten minutes of driving then coming to stop things start to go south. When starting to pull away nothing happens. Rev the car, nothing; then it starts to slowly build speed. It is not banging or lurching, it's almost like it has to build pressure in the torque converter and ooze away. What is more frustrating is that it is not entirely consistent. It will sometimes do it at stop, sometimes after coming back on the gas from coasting, sometimes not at all. I have been able to normally launch the car from a stop sign or a light 50-60% of the time. The rest are a fairly scary "will it or won't it" guessing game.

I have not dropped the pan or checked fluid yet as I was more concerned with determining if the motor was solid and then getting enough of the cooling fixed to have it run for more than a minute or two.

I guess next steps are drop the pan and see if there is any fluid or bad fluid or chunks of metal...

Are there any other thoughts beyond, 'I am going to be sadly disappointed?'

thanks!

 

You may need to do that but first are you aware an engine (even a seemingly minor one) issue can upset the trans?

So check codes, pending codes, sensors for plausibility, OBD monitor status and importantly the fuel trims (hot engine parked at idle).

 

That's good information to have. I will pull codes and see what the next steps are. I am also planning on pulling the pan no matter what, as the car has sat for at least three years that I am aware of prior to purchase. It will also give me a shot at seeing what kind of shape the valve body is in.

 

Good plan. Fresh fluid and to a proper fill level has to be wise.

 

Hello all.

Thought I would throw up one final update on the coupe project. Sadly it's just not viable to reasonably return it to the road.... With the amount of work that it needs against budget and time I feel that having a better base to start with will help actually get this accomplished, especially if I can somewhat enjoy it in the meantime.

I have gone ahead and purchased another 97 XK8 with 40k less miles that actually starts, runs and moves under its own power. I figure that at this point taking the best of the blue one and adding it to the red one (soon to be some other colour) is going to be a more satisfying conclusion to this. That and all the new parts that I purchased for the old one can be put to better or more immediate use.

Thanks for your help with this one and in advance for your help with the next one.

To help finance the continuation of this foolishness I will be doing a complete part out on the blue one. Check out my marketplace listing soon.