1384 and 1396 codes have been pretty constant since I've had car. I've been keeping a scan tool hooked up and when I clear them they come back pretty quick, usually almost instantly. After hooking up oil gauge after good warm up pressure is close to 40 at idle and at 2000 rpm 50-65.

 

Ah. I misread. It's a constant error. Probably should have confirmed that earlier, and a good move on the monitoring setup.

Well, you're getting closer. That oil pressure looks good: I expect that there's a pressure limiter that kicks in around 70 psi (not certain on that one).

So, apparently there's no restriction on the oil intake. That doesn't guarantee that the VVTs aren't being starved but it's less likely that both would have the same issue.

I'd probably still drop the sump at some point to make sure there's no tensioner bits left behind - as much out of OCD as anything since I've seen some examples where there hasn't been a clean-up after tensioner replacement

The cam and crank position sensors are all involved in detecting the cam phasing, but I'd expect additional codes to be thrown if there was any problem there.

Seems to come back to cam alignment during tensioner replacement, which is a shame as it's the most difficult check to make, although I do wonder about the coincidence of getting both sides wrong.

Sanity check on my logic please - anyone?

Mike

PS One more check you might make first:
Someone suggested pulling the connector and applying 12v directly to the VVT while the engine is idling, and listening for a change in the idle which would indicate that the cam is actually advancing.

 

I can do the applying 12v test pretty easily then go from there. I have a couple other problems I'm working on so this is keeping me quite busy(but I enjoy it).

 

Hello Dale sorry to read about your trouble, I went through same issue with right bank 1384 code after surviving a chain tension failure, at first I had my local Indi replace uppers and chains got the code on second startup did most of the things you did dropped pan found chunks of plastic and cleaned and changed oil to 10w40 checked voltage to solenoid they worked fine
I found a veteran jag mechanic locally about 9 months later he took on the issue vvt valve on passenger bank misaligned and sticking it had to be replaced and since you have to basically strip the front down had all chains tensioners and guides uppers and lowers and all seals replaced
She has run fine ever since. Steve said that he initially thought it was going to be the vvts and he showed me the old one, it would not advance the required 3 degrees and was very hard to move.
Sorry I don't have any good news and hope you have better outcome than I did.

 

Just a little update. Checked vvts again this morning. I can apply 9v by way of battery and can hear each tensioner working. Also, applying voltage while engine is at idle I can hear difference in engine from each Vvt. Also, days ago I hooked up test light and electronics is turning each Vvt on at higher rpm

 

Excellent, and further progress.
The cams are adjusting, which confirms that the VVT mechanisms aren't stuck.

So, everything is trying but can't bring the cam phases into the range that the ECM considers acceptable.Three possibilities:

1) Each VVT, while working up to a point, can't advance its respective cam sufficiently.

2) The initial reference point is incorrect (static cam timing).

3) Both 1) and 2) are true


OK - one more check. Clear the codes, then run the motor but at IDLE only and check for codes being re-thrown. If either or both is, it's a pointer to the static cam timing being out.

If not, then it could either be 1), or the ECM isn't monitoring the cam phase in the 'at rest' (no advance) state. I can't imagine why the latter would be the case, but I don't know the monitoring algorithm.

jeremys, thanks for jumping in. We were beginning to feel a bit lonely here

Mike

 

Michaelh, you don't know how much I appreciate all the help and input you have given. I will check this tomorrow and let you know how it turns out. Meanwhile, I have a couple other issues I'm hoping I can work out on my own��

 

Ran for quite a long time today at idle and did not get codes. Only got it to throw codes after raising rpm and stopping and starting engine a couple times

 

That's a drat, although having re-read the diagnostic which implies that the engine has to be above idle to throw the codes, it's a not-unexpected result. Mea culpa.

What's really frustrating is that the ECM has to know where the cams/crank are at any given time, and I'd bet a crisp Jersey £1 note that this information is available on the network.

There are ways to determine these relationships by monitoring the cam & crank position sensor outputs, but IDK what the values should be. I'm wondering if the Jaguar diagnostic kit can do this?

I know it's dancing around the problem and that another partial tear-down is likely, but it's much better to know it's A or B before you start rather than it might be A or it might B.

Back to some further research for me.

Mike

 

I have a few days to think about it. Have car on jackstands at the moment. Adjusted shift linkage yesterday(what a nightmare). Have left rear hub in the process of coming off and have parts ordered for it. Did I say I stay busy for a 69 year old man?

 

I'm not far behind you (63) and must have been bad too as I reckon I'll need to live to at least 150 to complete my list of stuff to do - and that's only if nothing gets added to it in the meantime.

Back to topic: again stating the obvious, this all worked fine at some point, therefore something has changed. I keep circling back to the PO's tensioner work.
It appears that more care is needed to ensure that the later VVTS are fully retarded when replacing the tensioners, although many on here have done the job without any subsequent issue.
Is it possible to get the timing off even if the cam flats are aligned properly - i.e. crank not quite in the right place?

Back to the research.

 

I think you're right and when I get some of the other things done I think I'll have to go in and redo timing. Oh well, just something else to put on my list.

 

I did find this, which is a more detailed Jaguar document on the AJ27 engine management system generally (see section 6.18):
http://www.teacher.starenvirotech.co...%2011-2003.pdf

Shame I couldn't find one for the AJ26.

There was also this warning in a training program document on Gus' site:

"
Note that rotating the engine backwards from the stopped position will cause the VVT unit body to move relative to the camshaft. To avoid the possibility of incorrect timing being set after any associated service work, reference must be made to JTIS for the correct procedures.
"

So a few opportunities to get things wrong.

Mike

 

I just ordered some parts and found crank pos sensor cheap so I'm going to throw it in just in case cause in my researching I've found this can cause some false readings also. Right now I'm working on rear wheel bearing so I'll try that later. If all else fails I'll try and redo timing. Again, thanks for all the help and input.

 

Thanks folks. I need this string right now... Apologies for the length of this addition.

I'm getting intermittent/regular P1396 fault code these last days.

Last week I installed a new/used drivers side cylinder head in my 2002 xk8 convertible. The car ran (almost well) before the repair. I had ZERO compression in Cyl 8, had seriously overheated my CATS once and finally discovered a dropped valve seat in Cyl 8. I had never gotten a P1396 code before the repair. It took me some time to get all the parts I needed together, being a man of limited means, but parts came in and the repair came together quite nicely. The thread for that job, with some photos, can be seen in the link below.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...emoval-171366/

That being said - now, the car is running great despite the fact that I get the check engine light with the P1396 fault code. I took it on the highway today for the first time after a hard reset overnight. We Zooooomed! To "hard reset" I use a vise grip to hold the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE cables together overnight, drain capacitors, start the car the next day, let temp rise to operating temp to let ECM set idle, then drive for a couple of hours in various driving conditions. I STILL dont have the nerve or courage to touch the negative cable to the positive post with all wires attached to hard reset. I don't know WHAT it will take for me to have the confidence to do that. I'm hard wired that way I guess - no pun intended.

What I think I did to cause the P1396 problem:
One - that the new CHead came with a threaded third hole which was MUCH larger than the original one that held the VVT harness (the original) onto the drivers side CHead. It's the highest of the three VVT bolts, most towards the inner centerline of the engine, that also supports the curved swiveling tensioner blade on that side. I was forced to go with a bigger/longer M8 bolt to reach deeper into the threaded CHead hole, as the hole came stripped (explains the cost of the part) on the outermost threads. With that, the space between the VVT harness, the tensioner and its pivot point sleeve and the wall of the CHead - left a gap. The space between the CHead (which is limiting/resting point for tensioner pivot sleeve) and the VVT harness was toooo great and to fill the space I used 3- 4 thin 1/4 inch washers filling the gap. Not ideal but it's was I came up with. I tightened the two proper VVT harness bolts first, to set distance, and filled the space with washers. Then, tightened the 3rd bolt last. I also had to enlarge the hole in the sleeve and the hole in the VVT harness on a drill press to take the M8 sized bolt. My fear is that that I offset/misaligned the delicate relationship between the VVT cylinder where it sleeves into and enters the intake cam VVT apparatus... I'm not proud of that - but that's what I did.

Two - when I was removing dampening pulley and loosening the crankshaft bolt to do the CHead job I used an appropriately sized phillips head and pushed it thru a hole in the torque converter/flywheel at the openings where the engine and transmission come together. Is it possible that I bent or threw out of alignment/bent the torque converter/flywheel? The bolt was reeeallly ON there, and the force I used to undo the bolt was LOTS... I'm understanding there is a connection between the CKP and the VVT... That the CKP "reads" the spacings on the torque converter.

And three - in setting the timing - i used appropriate tools, and timing seems fine. Could I have locked down cams with intake cam in advanced or retarded position accidently and more importantly - how the hell would I know? I took the cam covers off yesterday and noticed that the B2 cam flats didn't line up but only by super slightly. So slight that I'm thinking it could be that the intake is stuck either slightly retarded or advanced. A quick aside - At one point, while still in the middle of the CHead job, in process of placing cam setting tools after locking torque converter with locking tool, I noticed the cam flats on Bank 1 were not lined up. As much as a tooth jump,,, it seemed. I huffed and puffed thinking that I would have to undo those chains too and,,,,,, on Bank 1. So by chance I turned the crank bolt to move the cams (with timing chains still off bank 2 side) counter clockwise.... With a little click the cam flats "fell" back perfectly into place/alignment. Either stuck advanced or retarded? So, me being me - at the end of my 2hour driving to set ECU today - I turned the car off, then turned the crank bolt about 1/2 to full cycle counter clockwise and restarted car. As I stated the car is running nicely, so I didn't notice a major improvement on the highway home. I'm going to get up after writing this to pick up a friend from work and I will report what OBD reports.

Any comments, questions, suggestions, advice, admonishments, lol - welcome.

More - for the ones I haven't already tried I will be using the troubleshooting ideas offered in this thread. At least the thinking that not over my head. Im on a huge learning curve right now THANKS TO YOU ALL...

Peace and Love!

 

JJJ
Many of us would appreciate it if you would open a new thread instead of hijacking an existing one. It becomes confusing when members answer questions posed by the second poster and they are not directly related to the problems posed by the OP.

 

RJ237 - I have the same exact timing code and need answers... I found this searching for answers for an P1396 fault code problem...

Dales issue, I thought, were related to an original tensioner repair. Engine management systems. Possible advanced and/or retarded timing position. Defective or malfunctioning solenoids. Wiring possibly. CPS possibilities. Issues to do with a CKP sensor and troubleshooting for solutions. All I think I may be having. Im learning here. This is directly in line with the problems I think I may be having.

This message could have been sent off line AND we could have waited to see if the OP felt the same way. Its his thread. If he does, of course I'll respect that. Start a new thread. I may anyways.

Where is the disconnect and where is the "hijack"?

 

Does not bother me a bit but I'm not the one to judge how they run this site. I'm a fairly new owner and member and am still learning my way around. I still have no answer to my problem but have put in on back burner for a little. I do remember reading somewhere about turning engine counter clockwise being extremely catastrophic

 

Hi Dale,
Appreciate that you don't have a definitive, but you've eliminated several things that it isn't

Appreciate also that I'm sat as an armchair 'expert' while you're the one doing all the hard work.

I'm still trying to find some more info: I'd like to know for sure why codes aren't thrown at idle and, out of that, whether it's static timing vs both VVTs failing that is the root cause. I know it's academic really as whichever needs a tear-down to resolve.

OK on the new crank sensor. You'll have to remove it anyway to lock the crank to check the static set-up, but I'd expect additional codes (and issues) if it was malfunctioning.

It might not feel like it atm but you are getting there.
Please do keep us posted.

Mike

 

I'm still working on it as I can. In the middle of replacing rear wheel bearings at the moment. I'll see how that goes then back to codes. Will update as things change.