My Wife Got Hit Today....
#1
05-27-2014, 04:37 PM
My Wife Got Hit Today....
My wife got hit in her XK8 this afternoon by an inattentive senior citizen driver. She was motoring down the main road, he pulled out from a stop sign and forced her to swerve across the yellow line into the oncoming lane (fortunately no other traffic was coming). So instead of T-boning her, he scraped her entire passenger side from just beyond the headlight all the way to the front of the rear wheel well. No one was hurt....
I got there before the state trooper did and had a chance to speak with the trooper before he began his investigation. The trooper charged him with a safe movement violation. His 2003 Toyota 4Runner has some small scrapes on the left front plastic bumper cap. My wifes' XK8 has many thousands of dollars in damage....
I'll probably do what I did when I was hit in my S-Type back in August 2009. I'll file through my insurance company (Geico) since they will get the car repaired faster and not allow cheap Chinese parts to be used. They will then subrogate the full cost to the guy's insurance company (Allstate). Once the car is repaired to our satisfaction and is safely back in our hands, I will sue the other driver and Allstate for Diminished Value. It took me four or five months to get my case to court with the S-Type, but was worth it because I won and received the full $5,000 maximum award that North Carolina's small claims court allows. I'm still using that money today as all three of our vehicles' Maintenance Fund....
Again, no one was hurt. But my wife is absolutely sick about her dream car. It may have lost its appeal to her now....
I got there before the state trooper did and had a chance to speak with the trooper before he began his investigation. The trooper charged him with a safe movement violation. His 2003 Toyota 4Runner has some small scrapes on the left front plastic bumper cap. My wifes' XK8 has many thousands of dollars in damage....
I'll probably do what I did when I was hit in my S-Type back in August 2009. I'll file through my insurance company (Geico) since they will get the car repaired faster and not allow cheap Chinese parts to be used. They will then subrogate the full cost to the guy's insurance company (Allstate). Once the car is repaired to our satisfaction and is safely back in our hands, I will sue the other driver and Allstate for Diminished Value. It took me four or five months to get my case to court with the S-Type, but was worth it because I won and received the full $5,000 maximum award that North Carolina's small claims court allows. I'm still using that money today as all three of our vehicles' Maintenance Fund....
Again, no one was hurt. But my wife is absolutely sick about her dream car. It may have lost its appeal to her now....
#2
05-27-2014, 04:42 PM
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#3
05-27-2014, 05:29 PM
she's OK, everything else can be fixed. If she can't get over the fact it was crashed, assuming the car is back in fine order, you can sue for diminished value, sell the repaired car then go shopping for a new (used) XK8. It depends on the damage done, sometimes it can never be right (like when the kids drag racing in downtown Seattle one night many years ago wiped out the entire front and side of my '66 Mustang with less than 1,000 miles on it) or it can be repaired to the point you can almost forget it was in the shop. Bon Chance
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#4
05-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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05-27-2014, 06:18 PM
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#7
05-27-2014, 07:54 PM
I'll probably do what I did when I was hit in my S-Type back in August 2009. I'll file through my insurance company (Geico) since they will get the car repaired faster and not allow cheap Chinese parts to be used. They will then subrogate the full cost to the guy's insurance company (Allstate). Once the car is repaired to our satisfaction and is safely back in our hands, I will sue the other driver and Allstate for Diminished Value. It took me four or five months to get my case to court with the S-Type, but was worth it because I won and received the full $5,000 maximum award that North Carolina's small claims court allows. I'm still using that money today as all three of our vehicles' Maintenance Fund....
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05-27-2014, 08:01 PM
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05-27-2014, 09:02 PM
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#11
05-27-2014, 09:11 PM
Marsden,
Suing for Diminished Value in North Carolina works like this:
1. Get the vehicle repaired to my satisfaction. Once it is back in our hands and I have driven it extensively for a couple of weeks to shake it down and test it properly, phone the same Diminished Value agent that I used back in 2009 (he works for a company that specializes in Diminished Value cases), set up an appointment with him, and have him go over the car from top to bottom during the course of about 90 minutes. He will take 100+ photos and create a 25-to-30-page professional report on the car as it now exists after repairs have been completed. He will use this report along with other empirical data to determine exactly how much value the car has lost due to the accident even though repairs have restored it to its previous condition. His services cost me $325 in October 2009. Don't know yet how much they will cost me now.
2. Once I have his report and Diminished Value $ estimate in hand, go downtown to our local Small Claims Court administrative office and file the necessary paperwork to sue the other driver and his insurance company. The amount I sue for must be for $5,000 or less to stay in Small Claims Court. If I want to sue for more than $5,000, I must go through Superior Court which is an entirely different experience. In November 2009, the filing fee for Small Claims Court was about $70. Don't know how much that fee runs now. I must send certified copies of this lawsuit to the other driver and to his insurance company and then allow ten days for their response. Small Claims Court will assign me a court date which is about 60 days out, perhaps even 75 days out depending upon their caseload.
3. Wait for the phone call from the other guy's insurance company during which they will make a ridiculously low-ball offer to get me to drop my lawsuit against them. In early November 2009, they offered me the grand sum of $400 (95% of the people in this situation accept that offer because they are scared to death of the legal system and think they will be eaten alive in court, but I thrive in this environment and get a huge kick out of whipping the insurance company). Laugh heartily, decline their low-ball offer, and tell them "See you in court!" Hang up the phone while still laughing like a hyena.
4. Wait another couple of weeks for another phone call from the other guy's insurance company during which they will up the amount they are willing to pay me to drop my lawsuit against them. In late November 2009, they offered me $2,500. Respond with "You know, that's not even close to how much our car has dropped in value due to your insured running the stop sign and slamming into our XK8 while my wife was driving and fully obeying the law. As I told you a couple of weeks ago, I'll see you in court!"
5. Show up for court on the appointed day with my Diminished Value agent in tow. On the stand, explain why I'm there and what I expect (I get 15 minutes to do so). Be polite but firm and to the point, and bring all of my documentation regarding how well I've kept this car and everything I've done to it since we purchased it (that manilla folder is now more than an inch thick with every receipt, every oil & filter change, every tire rotation, every component purchased or replaced, etc.). Ask the judge (not a jury, just a judge) if he would like to inspect my documents. He will invariably want to do so, and he will spend many minutes going over each page and noting how I have them in chronological order with a full description of what was done, when, how and why. While he is reviewing my documents, the other insurance company's attorneys will cross-examine me and attempt to disparage my case. I will remain polite but firm, and I will answer every question and prove that I know what I'm doing and that I have every legal right to take this course of action.
6. Next, I allow my Diminished Value agent (whom I brought with me) to take the stand to explain his credentials and present his full report complete with photos and why my car has lost the amount of value that his report states that it has. He gets 15 minutes to do so, but the other insurance company's attorneys will drag this out by attempting to ridicule his credentials and expertise. My agent will respond by reciting his background, training, experience, previous cases, etc. The other insurance company's attorneys will quickly shut up. The judge will recognize my agent's expertise and will allow him to continue his presentation until he is finished.
7. The judge will ask if there are any further comments from either side. The other insurance company's attorneys will file a motion with the judge requesting that my case be immediately dismissed due to lack of evidence. The judge will immediately deny that motion.
8. The judge will then once again pick up and thumb through all of the documentation that I and my Diminished Value agent have presented to him. He will also check the court's records to be certain that the other driver was indeed charged by the investigating N.C. State Trooper as being at fault in the accident way back on May 27, 2014. The judge will then announce that he rules in my favor, inform the other insurance company's attorneys that they have ten days to pay me in full, and then he will adjourn our case and move on to the next one.
So that's how it worked from late September 2009 until my court date of January 11, 2010 regarding my S-Type. I expect it to work the exact same way this time. The only difference will be if I opt to sue for more than $5,000 in Diminished Value. If I do, I'll be in Superior Court where I may need to hire my own attorney. If you're a fierce bulldog and a Type AA++ personality like myself, you don't need to hire an attorney for Small Claims Court where the proceedings are more layman-friendly and less steeped in legalese. But if you wind up in Superior Court, it's an entirely different ballgame with a jury instead of just a judge and hiring an attorney is probably a wise move.
That's how it works here in North Carolina. Your mileage may vary in other states....
Suing for Diminished Value in North Carolina works like this:
1. Get the vehicle repaired to my satisfaction. Once it is back in our hands and I have driven it extensively for a couple of weeks to shake it down and test it properly, phone the same Diminished Value agent that I used back in 2009 (he works for a company that specializes in Diminished Value cases), set up an appointment with him, and have him go over the car from top to bottom during the course of about 90 minutes. He will take 100+ photos and create a 25-to-30-page professional report on the car as it now exists after repairs have been completed. He will use this report along with other empirical data to determine exactly how much value the car has lost due to the accident even though repairs have restored it to its previous condition. His services cost me $325 in October 2009. Don't know yet how much they will cost me now.
2. Once I have his report and Diminished Value $ estimate in hand, go downtown to our local Small Claims Court administrative office and file the necessary paperwork to sue the other driver and his insurance company. The amount I sue for must be for $5,000 or less to stay in Small Claims Court. If I want to sue for more than $5,000, I must go through Superior Court which is an entirely different experience. In November 2009, the filing fee for Small Claims Court was about $70. Don't know how much that fee runs now. I must send certified copies of this lawsuit to the other driver and to his insurance company and then allow ten days for their response. Small Claims Court will assign me a court date which is about 60 days out, perhaps even 75 days out depending upon their caseload.
3. Wait for the phone call from the other guy's insurance company during which they will make a ridiculously low-ball offer to get me to drop my lawsuit against them. In early November 2009, they offered me the grand sum of $400 (95% of the people in this situation accept that offer because they are scared to death of the legal system and think they will be eaten alive in court, but I thrive in this environment and get a huge kick out of whipping the insurance company). Laugh heartily, decline their low-ball offer, and tell them "See you in court!" Hang up the phone while still laughing like a hyena.
4. Wait another couple of weeks for another phone call from the other guy's insurance company during which they will up the amount they are willing to pay me to drop my lawsuit against them. In late November 2009, they offered me $2,500. Respond with "You know, that's not even close to how much our car has dropped in value due to your insured running the stop sign and slamming into our XK8 while my wife was driving and fully obeying the law. As I told you a couple of weeks ago, I'll see you in court!"
5. Show up for court on the appointed day with my Diminished Value agent in tow. On the stand, explain why I'm there and what I expect (I get 15 minutes to do so). Be polite but firm and to the point, and bring all of my documentation regarding how well I've kept this car and everything I've done to it since we purchased it (that manilla folder is now more than an inch thick with every receipt, every oil & filter change, every tire rotation, every component purchased or replaced, etc.). Ask the judge (not a jury, just a judge) if he would like to inspect my documents. He will invariably want to do so, and he will spend many minutes going over each page and noting how I have them in chronological order with a full description of what was done, when, how and why. While he is reviewing my documents, the other insurance company's attorneys will cross-examine me and attempt to disparage my case. I will remain polite but firm, and I will answer every question and prove that I know what I'm doing and that I have every legal right to take this course of action.
6. Next, I allow my Diminished Value agent (whom I brought with me) to take the stand to explain his credentials and present his full report complete with photos and why my car has lost the amount of value that his report states that it has. He gets 15 minutes to do so, but the other insurance company's attorneys will drag this out by attempting to ridicule his credentials and expertise. My agent will respond by reciting his background, training, experience, previous cases, etc. The other insurance company's attorneys will quickly shut up. The judge will recognize my agent's expertise and will allow him to continue his presentation until he is finished.
7. The judge will ask if there are any further comments from either side. The other insurance company's attorneys will file a motion with the judge requesting that my case be immediately dismissed due to lack of evidence. The judge will immediately deny that motion.
8. The judge will then once again pick up and thumb through all of the documentation that I and my Diminished Value agent have presented to him. He will also check the court's records to be certain that the other driver was indeed charged by the investigating N.C. State Trooper as being at fault in the accident way back on May 27, 2014. The judge will then announce that he rules in my favor, inform the other insurance company's attorneys that they have ten days to pay me in full, and then he will adjourn our case and move on to the next one.
So that's how it worked from late September 2009 until my court date of January 11, 2010 regarding my S-Type. I expect it to work the exact same way this time. The only difference will be if I opt to sue for more than $5,000 in Diminished Value. If I do, I'll be in Superior Court where I may need to hire my own attorney. If you're a fierce bulldog and a Type AA++ personality like myself, you don't need to hire an attorney for Small Claims Court where the proceedings are more layman-friendly and less steeped in legalese. But if you wind up in Superior Court, it's an entirely different ballgame with a jury instead of just a judge and hiring an attorney is probably a wise move.
That's how it works here in North Carolina. Your mileage may vary in other states....
Last edited by Jon89; 05-29-2014 at 07:23 AM.
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#12
05-27-2014, 10:18 PM
Veteran Member
Glad no one was hurt and body work can be repaired. Last Friday, I was in a Home Depot for no more than 10 minutes, and when I came out my bumper on driver's side was covered with scratches and white paint (shows up real well on a Carnival Red car). I don't believe I was hit by another car because of where I was parked. I believe someone dragged a lumber cart across it. Although I could send it through my insurance, it's just not worth the two or three hundred dollar repair, and it will be going to the shop tomorrow. It will get fixed as will your wife's, so it's not the worst thing in the world, but a pain in the ****.
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Jon89 (05-28-2014)
#14
05-28-2014, 02:58 AM
Suing for Diminished Value in North Carolina works like this:
1. Get the vehicle repaired to my satisfaction. Once it is back in our hands and I have driven it extensively for a couple of weeks to shake it down and test it properly, phone the same Diminished Value agent that I used back in 2009 .............. The judge will then announce that he rules in my favor, inform the other insurance company's attorneys that they have one week to pay me in full, and then he will adjourn our case and move on to the next one.
....
1. Get the vehicle repaired to my satisfaction. Once it is back in our hands and I have driven it extensively for a couple of weeks to shake it down and test it properly, phone the same Diminished Value agent that I used back in 2009 .............. The judge will then announce that he rules in my favor, inform the other insurance company's attorneys that they have one week to pay me in full, and then he will adjourn our case and move on to the next one.
....
Always interesting to read how things are done in other parts of the World.
Sounds like you are almost looking forward to the fight.
I hope you successfully recover all costs and most important, your wife is happy with the car when it's repaired.
Graham
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Jon89 (05-28-2014)
#16
05-28-2014, 06:28 AM
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Jon,
Sorry about the Jag and glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the write up about diminished value. I'm in a fight with our insurance company now. The repairs on my wife's car were done poorly after an accident. Paint peeling after only 2 years. I think the body shop failed to prep it properly. From your description small claims court might just be fun.
Sorry about the Jag and glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the write up about diminished value. I'm in a fight with our insurance company now. The repairs on my wife's car were done poorly after an accident. Paint peeling after only 2 years. I think the body shop failed to prep it properly. From your description small claims court might just be fun.
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Jon89 (05-28-2014)
#17
05-28-2014, 06:38 AM
Graham,
You read me like a book. I live for these battles against large corporations that pull out all the stops to deny responsibility, effect repairs as cheaply as possible, and then fight me tooth and nail when I force them into court to pay up in full as they should have done in the first place....
Anyone who wants the full understanding of my initial Diminished Value experience with my S-Type should go to the S-Type section and search for my post of August 3, 2009 entitled "Our S-Type Got Hit Today...." Be forewarned that it may take you an hour or more to read through the entire thread....
My wife falling in love with her dream car again after it is back in our stable is a much greater challenge. Her extreme sadness about what happened yesterday is now turning more towards anger. I see vehicles as useful tools, not animate objects that I fall in love with and name. If she would deploy a little more of my philosophy, we would have a much better chance of keeping this car once it is repaired....
You read me like a book. I live for these battles against large corporations that pull out all the stops to deny responsibility, effect repairs as cheaply as possible, and then fight me tooth and nail when I force them into court to pay up in full as they should have done in the first place....
Anyone who wants the full understanding of my initial Diminished Value experience with my S-Type should go to the S-Type section and search for my post of August 3, 2009 entitled "Our S-Type Got Hit Today...." Be forewarned that it may take you an hour or more to read through the entire thread....
My wife falling in love with her dream car again after it is back in our stable is a much greater challenge. Her extreme sadness about what happened yesterday is now turning more towards anger. I see vehicles as useful tools, not animate objects that I fall in love with and name. If she would deploy a little more of my philosophy, we would have a much better chance of keeping this car once it is repaired....
Last edited by Jon89; 05-29-2014 at 07:26 AM.
#18
05-28-2014, 07:05 AM
Fulton,
Small Claims Court can be great fun. The key to success is proper preparation and then overwhelming the courtroom with your meticulous documentation from start to finish. But you must stay professional yet firm and to the point as you present your case on the stand. Let your documentation drive your point home for you. It didn't take long in my case with the S-Type for the opposing attorneys to realize that I had them by the short hairs. I could barely contain my laughter as they resorted to Keystone Cops mode in an effort to discredit me and my Diminished Value agent. Even the judge got annoyed at their antics and kept cutting them off in mid-sentence....
Small Claims Court can be great fun. The key to success is proper preparation and then overwhelming the courtroom with your meticulous documentation from start to finish. But you must stay professional yet firm and to the point as you present your case on the stand. Let your documentation drive your point home for you. It didn't take long in my case with the S-Type for the opposing attorneys to realize that I had them by the short hairs. I could barely contain my laughter as they resorted to Keystone Cops mode in an effort to discredit me and my Diminished Value agent. Even the judge got annoyed at their antics and kept cutting them off in mid-sentence....
#19
05-28-2014, 07:41 AM
........Anyone who wants the full understanding of my initial Diminished Value experience with my S-Type should go to the S-Type section and search for my post of August 3, 2009 entitled "Our S-Type Got Plowed Today...." Be forewarned that it may take you an hour or more to read through the entire thread........
Here's the link to your S-Type thread:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...t-today-21898/
The S-Type accident all happened before I joined the forum so I've just been reading the thread (in 48 minutes!).
Your advice in post #13 about preparing "a very detail-oriented document to hand to the insurance adjuster and also to the manager of every body shop that I visit during the selection process" is something anyone involved in an accident would do well to follow. It proved to be the clincher in the subsequent Court action.
Graham
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Jon89 (05-28-2014)
#20
05-28-2014, 07:43 AM
First off glad to hear the wife is ok...... this is by far the most important thing in all of it. Secondly, sorry to hear about the Jag but that's why they call them accidents.
Third, I know you said Geico wont use cheap Chinese parts but that's just NOT true. I own a bodyshop and have watched them write aftermarket parts on a 3 month old 5300 mile vehicle. Unless you have a clause in your policy that clearly states (anyone can have this added FYI) that ONLY new OEM parts can be used for repairs this decision no matter how much you complain is theirs. So if you are getting the car fixed go to a true independent bodyshop NOT the recommended one by Geico. The shops they recommend have signed contracts with that insurance company that they will repair the vehicle exactly as the insurance company states in exchange for them (Ins Co) feeding them work. This amounts to less than perfect repairs as is the case with Fulton's post. If you do use a true independent (just ask if they are a DRP or Preferred shop for any insurance company, if so they are not an independent) ask them to make sure they use OEM parts and ASK to see the invoices when you pick up the car.
We ALWAYS use new parts because dealers will gladly price match the aftermarket or used parts because they want the sale. This way the customer (you) gets the best possible repair. Also being an independent body allows us (and other independents) to do the repair the proper way and not be controlled by the insurance company. The law is the law and they have to pay the shop to repair it the correct way. Without clauses in your policy to protect you need to use a independent bodyshop (preferably one with many years in business and a great reputation) if you really want to get the best repair.
Great info on diminished value but I will say each states laws are a little different. I give just about every customer we have information on it but have found its hard to get any real payout on older vehicles with high miles. Just an FYI. Good luck with everything and keep up posted. Lastly, my info comes from 37 years experience and my current dealing with all insurance companies.
Third, I know you said Geico wont use cheap Chinese parts but that's just NOT true. I own a bodyshop and have watched them write aftermarket parts on a 3 month old 5300 mile vehicle. Unless you have a clause in your policy that clearly states (anyone can have this added FYI) that ONLY new OEM parts can be used for repairs this decision no matter how much you complain is theirs. So if you are getting the car fixed go to a true independent bodyshop NOT the recommended one by Geico. The shops they recommend have signed contracts with that insurance company that they will repair the vehicle exactly as the insurance company states in exchange for them (Ins Co) feeding them work. This amounts to less than perfect repairs as is the case with Fulton's post. If you do use a true independent (just ask if they are a DRP or Preferred shop for any insurance company, if so they are not an independent) ask them to make sure they use OEM parts and ASK to see the invoices when you pick up the car.
We ALWAYS use new parts because dealers will gladly price match the aftermarket or used parts because they want the sale. This way the customer (you) gets the best possible repair. Also being an independent body allows us (and other independents) to do the repair the proper way and not be controlled by the insurance company. The law is the law and they have to pay the shop to repair it the correct way. Without clauses in your policy to protect you need to use a independent bodyshop (preferably one with many years in business and a great reputation) if you really want to get the best repair.
Great info on diminished value but I will say each states laws are a little different. I give just about every customer we have information on it but have found its hard to get any real payout on older vehicles with high miles. Just an FYI. Good luck with everything and keep up posted. Lastly, my info comes from 37 years experience and my current dealing with all insurance companies.
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