So a few months back I did a transmission filter change and fill on my 03 XKR. It was a pain in the butt doing it on jack stands, but following the tutorials here and elsewhere, I thought I had accomplished it. Then I kept leaking fluid out the bell housing, and tried again, and again was leaking fluid. So I let it sit for a while, not really knowing how to go forward. I went to a local shop I had gone to before, but it was under new owners, and I wasn't liking the feel of the place, and they said they would drop my trans and have it rebuilt for $4k. So I asked around, and got a recommendation for another place. I stopped in a few weeks ago talked to the mechanic working the desk, and asked if they worked on Jags, he said yes, and so I made an appointment for last Friday. I dropped off my car on Thursday, and was in a hurry since the cab I had booked to take me back home was early. The owner/ head mechanic was there this time, and he said he didn't know why I'd even made an appointment, he didn't have the diagnostic tools to work on Jaguars, but he said he would take a look, maybe it was something simple.

I stopped in this morning to see how things had gone. The owner was there again. He told me a few things, one I had overfilled the transmission and that's why it was leaking (so they set it at the right level) next that he was able to find some readings for what the transmission pump should be running at (he said he was shocked he had that info in one of his books), and it was way low, (he said 500 lbs low, I assume he meant psi) and that's why my trans had not been running smooth. He also said he called around to other independents and couldn't find anyone willing to work on putting a new pump in, and that I'd probably have to take it to the dealership. The nearest one being about an hour away. I thanked him for this info, and asked what I owed him for his time. He just handed me the keys and said "Nothing, you'll be spending enough getting this fixed at a dealer." I was blown away, I tried a couple more times to make sure he wouldn't accept anything for the time he had sunk in on this, and he refused. He also thought I'd be safe to drive it for a while, but not to really beat on it.

How is that for an experience, I honestly didn't think there were people out there like that any more. I'd love to share his info with you here, to pay him being a nice guy, but he doesn't want to work on Jags, so I'll just have to tell all my local friends about him. And guess where I'll be taking my Dodge, and Subaru.

Now for the question. Does his diagnosis of a bad transmission pump sound right? I know the solenoids go out on these regularly, but a quick search of this forum didn't bring back any info on the pump it self. Also, I quick google search didn't bring back much info either. Any body with some experience with this? Also I see rebuilt transmissions at Galaxy are going for only $1300 minus shipping, and a core charge, that seems reasonable. Anybody have any experience with them?


Edit: After Graham's suggestion, and thinking about it. The shop is Bill's Auto Repair in Waupaca, WI, and the owner is funny enough Bill.

 

No reason you can't mention the name. I'm sure members in Central WI will run other vehicles besides their Jaguars and this kind of shop is always worth finding.

As for the transmission, if you intend keeping the XKR it's got to be a choice of either run it until the unit fails or bite the bullet and go for a rebuild now. You are clearly a hands-on guy so removing and replacing it yourself would greatly reduce the cost. I've found the "band aid" approach to transmissions is rarely successful and a full overhaul is the answer.

Graham

 

That shop is indeed a rarity these days. You were fortunate. Good luck with whatever you decide to do regarding your transmission....

 

Generally, transmissions have various taps to be able to read fluid pressure at various points. Did he put a gauge on one of these taps for an actual measurement?

Hard to believe nobody can work on these transmissions, they are pretty common if you include the US-made models. Probably just did not hit the right shop.

More to the point, the way this transmission is usually worked is by starting with the cheap stuff and work your way up. Now that you have new fluid/filter, you might want to look into replacing the bridge seal and all the tube seals. It involves pulling the valve body off the bottom, so the actual transmission stays in place (cuts down on labor cost). Doable in the garage on jack stands, but just as uncomfortable as you remember. Also, be sure to replace the connector sleeve while you are there.

Check transmissionfault.com

Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

Thanks guys.

Good suggestions. Frank, when I did the fluid/ filter change I did the bridge and tube seals. I don't know where the mechanic tapped the pressure, but despite his lack of knowledge on these cars, he's a good mechanic and since he had the spec for what the pressure should be, I'm willing to believe he took it at the correct place. The one easy thing I didn't do was change the solenoids when I had the valve body out, and my guess is that they could affect the pressure. However I'm a little gun shy about going back in, since I obviously have an issue getting the correct fluid level, messed it up twice already.

Even though I drove the car back home yesterday, that was only about a 6 mile drive. The weather was pretty crappy yesterday, so I didn't want to try driving it further. I may try giving it a longer run today, overcast but not raining. And see what happens.

 

The thing with replacing solenoids is that it is not super cheap ($400?), at least too expensive to just throw parts at the problem to see what happens. Could be a problem with a valve in the body, or something unrelated. Maybe a properly rebuilt unit is the way to go.

What fluid did you use? Some of us have had good luck with the Mercon SP.

Don't neglect external input, like the ABS reluctor rings and basic tire pressure, especially left rear.

Any codes?

Normally, the next step after a major maintenance is reset of the adaptations (software procedure).

Care to describe what the initial problem was?

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

Here was the post I made several months ago, when I first did the procedure. The second paragraph has the reasoning behind me doing the change. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ge-not-218238/

And yes, you gave the great suggestion there of diagnosing the problem before continuing, and I really didn't, even though I thought I had. So now I need to do my homework.

If I get the code again, when I take the car out, I'll mention the specific one. But it was bad enough to kick me into limp mode, and I remember the message my code reader had was something about 5th gear.

 

Well went for a longer test drive. First 15-20 minutes were fine. Then the rough shifts started happening especially the higher gears. Got real bad and got a gearbox error. About a mile later it got real angry at me and started shuddering all over the place. Had to pull over shut the car off, and restart, got on a back road, and only went about 35mph the rest of the way home, that was fine. The two error codes I got were both pending faults of a P0783, and P0784. My reader doesn't do the specific transmission stuff, so if I remember right these codes are fairly generic, and not too helpful.

Edit:

Just did a search and one of the first postings was this. http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...ansmission.pdf
I'm sure it, or link to it is already on the site, but it still was an interesting read. And it did list the errors I've seen. But, even after reading about them, I'm not sure how this helps me diagnose a bigger problem.

 

John, have you mentioned the name of the shop yet?

 

Yea, I edited the first post to include it. But It's worth repeating. It was Bills Auto Repair in Waupaca, WI.

 

Thanks John, I must have missed it.

John

 

Well John N,

Bad news is that the DTCs relate direly with what you’re finding. Basically the car won’t engage 3,4,5 high gears as the clutch plates are slipping.

If you’ve changed the fluid and filters, there’s not much else you can do DIY. As car is running fine in low gears, and it’s a repetitive problem, it’s probably not sensor/wiring problems.

You are an advanced home DIY-er, so maybe check gearbox solenoids and the channels in the valve body- but that’s beyond most people’s experiences. If the problem is not there, the gear box transmission needs to be disassembled and drums, clutches checked.

IMHO, I think you’re in the realm of finding a part exchange re-conditioned unit. Good luck finding a Gearbox specialist near you with this service

 

Thanks David,

I think you have more confidence in me, then I currently do. While I like to think of myself as being a decent DIY’er, the fact is my actual skill set and experience level is still low. Yes I can turn a wrench, and read things on the internet ( and books before that was useful), but just like overfilling the transmission fluid, I’m not a technician by any means.

So, does the mechanics reading of low pressure, and diagnosis’s of a bad pump fit with this as well? Or would I be seeing codes that directly related to that as well? In my mind if the pump pressure is low, it makes sense that the solonois wouldn’t be pushing out enough force to properly engage the clutches, and maybe it takes more force to do the upper ones?

Either way, it looks like a rebuild, if I can find someone willing. Or that rebuilt one from Galaxy is starting to sound appealing, $1300 for the trans, $250 to ship, $500 for the core charge. $2k, is sounding less then I’ve heard others quote just for a rebuild of mine, I just hope this isn’t a get what you pay for sort of thing. Anybody heard anything about them before? I had a link in the first post.

Thanks for the insight guys.

 

As a last resort, have you tried to reset the adaptations? They are the "learned" settings for each of the solenoid valves. I suppose if one got very out of whack, it could send the pressure to a clutch in a very delayed fashion (just speculating here). I believe some of the handheld devices can do this (Foxwell), but the dealer can do this too for a typical diagnostic fee (1.5 hr?). It is a procedure where you are instructed to drive the car under software supervision, and gently speed up through the gears. The test can be repeated if you run into traffic. Then, once finished, the "learning" is supposed to take place for the next 100 miles, and be set from that point forward. If you go to the dealer, you might as well ask them to update the software to the latest version (reflash) first.

Another DIY thing would be to work something out with a supplier for a rebuilt (complete) valve body. It is still hard to believe there are major clutch issues as you did not find anything unusual when you drained the fluid and examined those magnets. Other thing you mentioned is the fluid smell. Was it very different from the new fluid? From memory, the smell is unpleasant, greasy and a bit fishy. I believe "burnt" fluid is much worse, and might indicate a full rebuilt is more warranted.

I would say contact that transmission company as see if they are willing to cut you a deal: try the rebuilt valve body first (DIY), and if it does not work, then get the complete unit.

Just to throw something else, some folks on this forum have reported great customer support from ZF in the US (Erickson industries?) from a couple of gentlemen working there. Might be worth giving them a call, they likely have seen a lot of scenarios.

Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

Call ZF Tech Support in Chicago (800-451-2595) and ask for either Steve Jaffe or Joe Laubinger. Both of these guys have been very helpful to me when I was seeking advice on my wife's 2006 XK8's ZF 6HP26 transmission shift quality issues. Since the last adaptation drive cycle procedure (JTB00145) was performed back in April 2016 at Joe's suggestion, it has continued to perform perfectly....

 

Thanks again Frank for the suggestions, and taking the time to re read the old post, to gain new insight. No, the smell, was just the same bad smell as the new stuff, I had just assumed that it was fowl enough that it had to be burnt. Once again, my inexperience was showing. The magnets were clean, i remember that. The pan had been replaced at one point, and I'm not exactly sure how long ago, but within the last 5-6 years (the pan had a date of 2012 or 13). I will do some more reading, and when I have some time next week, make some calls.

 

Hate to say it, John, but I believe you are looking at a rebuild or buying a rebuilt unit. I owned and operated a transmission shop for some years awhile back and from what you're describing the transmission is toasted. Whatever malfunction took place prior to the condition you have right now is kinda water under the bridge at this point. If your fluid is burnt from excessive heat (most likely slipping clutch plates) and shuddering the clutch plates are done. Slipping is not a minor condition and it doesn't take long to burn through and wipe out the friction layer on the clutch plates. The shuddering is pretty much the next symptom telling you it's done.

A rebuilt unit for $1300 doesn't sound bad at all but, I would try to find some reviews or people that have used them to see if they are any good. Any decent transmission shop would easily charge double for a rebuild and R&R. If you are thinking about going this route stop driving the car! There's a very big difference between a soft parts overhaul and one that requires additional hard parts (drums, shafts, planetary gears, etc) and these parts add up fast.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

this is a simple answer. The pump assembly being in the front of the transmission is an easy enough problem to replace. Curious if you had any codes showing. No legitimate shop is going to rebuild that unit for 1300. transmission business is at times a big con game. Your guy may have said something along the lines of 1300 soft part rebuild which would be just a box kit for the trans and possibly some labor. He will then usually return with a list of hardparts not covered in that 1300.00. I have gotten tired of that bait and switch tactics most trans shops use. I am always straight up with customers and I get reviews that state that. ZF units are put together very well, failures are few and far between. I can't recall any major issues with that pump assembly and in my 30 years experience there aren't many builders who can do those units right. They all say that they can but most fall short. Peter Schmidt in the bay area is the best in my opinion in the states. Wolfgang the old German builder and owner recently passed and his son is now running the shop and is as good as his dad was. They are friendly and can answer any questions you may have. I believe the sons name to be Kurt. They will be able to give you the answer to any questions you have. Peter Schmidt in San Francisco.