Yep, that's what they all say these days....

 

The monitors are monitoring that the various systems are operating as designed. Once the monitors are set nothing needs to be done until you clear the codes. So be aware everytime you clear codes you start all over with resetting the monitors. Since all these things operate in the real world there has to be some range of acceptable outputs. Not a fixed a value. Plus they give the car several attempts to run right before the check engine light is illuminated.
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Joe,

Your saga is becoming epic and I can't remember - have you checked the inlet and outlet temperatures of your cats with an infrared thermometer when the cats are at full operating temperature? If the outlet temps are not at least 80°F hotter than the inlet temps, the converters are not generating sufficient catalytic chemical reaction to reduce the potentially harmful compounds into harmless ones. It is possible for the cats to underperform without triggering DTCs, which could conceivably prevent the CAT monitor from resetting.

Cheers,

Don

 

Hey Jon,

Another reason to buy a car built before 1975 here in California. Then you don't need a garage full of computers to fix it.

 

Morning Don,

when I checked the temps I wasn't getting a big difference between the outlet and inlet, but I wasn't able to get very far under the car to accurately measure the outlet temp. At this point I'm just going to let the Smog Shop deal with it. Once they're done I'm going to contact the people I bought it from and let them know how much it was and that they are required to pay for it. Worst case is I'll have to take them to Small Claims Court to get the money. After that I'm not sure if I'll keep it or get rid of it. At this point it's still in the body shop.

 

I think it's a reason to buy cars that aren't extremely limited production that haven't been abandoned by their manufacturers.

I do not have anywhere near these same issues with my 20+ year old German iron.

 

You mean re-sets.

Your government mandates this OBD II stuff by law. Some states either don't adopt it or allow some variation such as unset monitors or money spent trying to meet the rules.

Many _are_ explained if you care to look. Your government and states are quite good at publishing this stuff and it's free online.

A breaker is incredibly simple but a car is not.

With a working car you do NOT need to drive to a drive cycle. It just speeds things up.

Something is wrong with your car and from the many posts it sounds like it's been badly treated for quite some time. Complex problem devices which have been badly treated are commonly a nightmare. The overall fault appears to be with whoever didn't properly look after the car. It's not your government to blame nor Jaguar. Very possibly you were sold what I gather is known as a lemon. I can't tell if you could have discovered that and avoided buying it.

 

I think the lesson for anyone thinking of buying a car in a state that requires sellers to provide a valid smog certificate to the buyer, is for the buyer to make sure they have that certificate, especially if the car is 25 years old. For the rest of us an OBD dongle and the Torque app would reveal any fault codes and (if relevant) drive monitor status. A bit like buying a car in the UK without a valid MOT, you are taking a risk you might have bought an undriveable parts car.

Unfortunately it's caveat emptor when it comes to second hand cars and the OP is very lucky the law in California pushes the cost of this back on to the seller.

 

It depends. Was the car on non-op when you bought it? It's legal to sell a car without a smog cert if it's on non-op. Did you have a bill of sale stating as is/where is? If the foregoing is true, you may be stuck.

 

It was not on a Non Op registration so the seller is responsible. You can not sell a car that is registered in CA "as is", it must be smog legal. The seller can either take the car back and return the sales price or pay for the cost to make it smog legal. Only exemptions, other than motorcycles, RVs and the like, is if the buyer is going to dismantle it or register it as non op.

 

My understanding, and I don't profess to be an expert, is that if it's on non-op and the non-smoggable thing is disclosed then it's legal. Which doesn't sound at all like your case. But, you're correct in that a normal as-is/where-is has a smog cert exception.

I hope you win. Unfortunately, in CA, collecting on a judgement is very difficult. CA's judgement enforcement laws are pretty weak (don't ask how I know ) and hiring a collections attorney often eats up much of what you were awarded.

 

Well I picked up the car today from the smog repair shop. They advised me that there was nothing they could find that was preventing the CAT monitor from resetting. They gave me a report that I am supposed to be able to take to the California Bureau of Automotive Repair and get an exemption from the smog certification requirement. We shall see. They did say that the only thing it might be is improper communication between the control modules.

This brings me back to the fact that someone has replaced the ECM and TCM in the car. Anyone out there know which module controls the CAT monitor? Also, is there anyone who knows how to determine what the full VCATS number is on the ECM? I'm finding them online but they, like mine, have a Denso label on them that only has the first part of the VCATS number and not the suffix.

Joe

 

Good luck with the exemption process. Let us know if your repair shop report indeed exempts your car from the certification requirement. I wonder if it would be a permanent exemption or if you would have to show the report every year....

 

Hi Joe,

All of the readiness monitors, including the CAT monitor, are functions of the ECM. Motorcarman may be able to tell you how to determine the full VCATS version of your ECM, but it may require one of the Jaguar dealership-level diagnostic systems like WDS or IDS.

Cheers,

Don

 

Hi Jon,
Thanks, I think that's the only option I have with this thing. I put in new downstream O2 sensors, they weren't too expensive, but the upstreams are $300 each. I'm not looking to add another $600 to what this car has cost me.

Joe

 

Hi Don,
I've been checking around and none of the dealerships near me have any of the "old" equipment around. I don't know what they do with it but the fact that they get rid of something like that tells me a lot about how the company stands behind, or should I say runs from, their products. I don't know how much floor space the equipment takes up but you'd think at least one dealership would have one. I mean this is the computer that controls everything on the car. The company that built it can't keep the equipment that is used to tell what the magical number is inside it. Geesh!!!

 

Hi, Joe

Does this mean that your tailpipe emissions are within spec? And it's just the cat monitor issue that stand between you and a smog cert?

The dealership software is available online. I've found a couple of sources. Here's one: https://tools4car.co.uk/product/jlrcable/

 

The dealer I worked at DESTROYED all the PDU, WDS and IDS equipment they had.
I offered to buy some of it but was told that the service manager called Jaguar and was advised to destroy to prevent unauthorized configurations like 'programming keys' and things like that.

I bought used FORD dealer equipment and replaced the HDD in the WDS and IDS computers to load Jaguar software.(kept the Ford)

When looking up control modules that require VCATS suffix numbers in JEPC it states "USE PORTABLE DIAGNOSTIC UNIT TO DETERMINE PART NUMBER SUFFIX".
You can simply use the VCATS label but the PDU can be used if available.
Portable Diagnostic Unit (PDU) is replaced by WDS and IDS so they can be used.

 

Hey there Y2K,

That's what the shop said. They also tried the "drive cycles" but no joy.

Is that the thing I would need to find out the VCATS number of a ECM?

I just talked to someone at Welsh Enterprises who supply older Jag parts. He said there may be an issue with the new downstream O2 sensors not talking to the old upstream ones. His suggestion was to buy a couple new upstream ones and plug them into the connectors and see if that clears the INC code. He said if the issue is the old ones aren't communicating with the new ones, just plugging the new upstream ones in will reset the monitor. It doesn't have to be inserted into the manifold. I'm not sure I believe that but I could order a pair and just plug them in and see what happens. If it doesn't clear the monitor I can return them.

Joe

 

Hi Motorcarman,

I get that Jaguar wouldn't want Kim Philby to have one but you'd think they'd be able to verify someone is a legit Jag mechanic. With none available it makes it impossible to fix the car. So their operating their business under the theory that their cars only last 10 or 15 years. Not very helpful.

As I said all the ECMs I'm finding only have the first part of the VCATS number. So I guess I have to find someone who has smuggled a diagnostic unit out of a dealership.