This is the major thread on the SDD clone scan tool: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...an-tool-66558/

Once you get to the end, and your head stops spinning, you can avoid another big headache ordering the unit on ebay from the link I cited.

IMO, it is worth the extra $ because the unit is pre-tested and warranted, and the software is pre-installed and works on a virtual machine installable on most any Windows PC.

 

Hello WhiteXKR, thanks for the response, long time no hear from you.

I was just reading that thread while you posted, I was at page 22 and feeling like I was getting knowhere slowly.

So in your opinion, instead of me spending about $175 to reprogram the key to the security system at the dealer plus tow etc, do you think I would be better off ordering from the ebay guy to do it myself?

Did you order and use it?

How does it work? Can I just install it on a laptop then enter my vin like he does in the video, then what, use the cable to connect the laptop to the car... the cable connects where for my issue, then what do i do? and how does it get the code off my key etc?

Thanks alot, much appreciated,
Sid

 

I've been following this thread which appears to be have become overly complicated for diagnosing a "Starter Won't Turn". There are a lot of good knowledgable people on here with more Jaguar knowledge than I. But from what I’m reading I do not see a good logical step by step troubleshooting procedure. First and foremost I AM NOT a Jaguar Technician, I am an Electrical Engineer, and I do own and XKR which has never needed service other than fluid Changes in 11 years. It even has an unsulphated original battery that is still up to snuff.

I've owned over 200 personal automobiles in my lifetime and have done most of my own work. I've had same problem as you having a multitude of times on different vehicles and was always able to remedy the problem by doing some simple diagnostics eliminating probable causes from the most likely to least likely in order.

Starting (engine cranking) systems haven't really changed since the 1920's. A High current line from the battery positive is connected to the Starter Solenoid (which is actually a high current relay). A low current wire connects the Solenoid energizing terminal to the Ignition switch starting contact. It's really quite simple even your lawn tractor works the same way.

I would procede in the following order since you stated that it was starting prior to the battery going dead. I think it’s a long shot that the starter or Solenoid failed concurrently with the battery going dead. (There wasn’t any power available to kill it). If you ran the battery flat dead or to a point were it wouldn’t turn over, change the battery period. Don’t rely on load testing. Deep discharge creates sulfates on the battery plates which in turn limit the current it can put out. Jaguar XK’s are well known to put a large load on the battery when sitting parked. If you leave your car unused for even a few days it should be plugged into a battery maintainer like CTEK) to keep the discharge cyles from sulfating the battery. Not doing so will ruin a battery quick.

Procedure:

1) Install a known good battery that cranks the family sedan (not with jumper cables) as a bad battery acts like a big resistor in the circuit limiting current. Give it a try.

2) The second and most common problem that I’ve seen is extra resistance induced into the Starter high current feed cable limiting the current available to the starter Motor. That can happen either on the Positive cable or the Ground cable. Since you removed the battery to have it tested I’m going to assume that you may have done what the average person would do in removing it. They would loosen the clamping bolts then twist the battery terminal connector to break it loose. You may have used the battery cable itself for leverage and it is very possible that the crimp or cable to terminal connection point had some internal corrosion starting (hat you can’t see), and simply moving it could have made the contact resistance increase enough to limit the starter current. In many cases I’ve seen everything work BUT the starter which requires a few hundred Amps continuous). I’ve changed a multitude of bad Main Cables or Battery connectors, both positive and Negative and fixed the problem. If that didn’t fix it checking the ground connection was next.

3) My next step would be to verify that the starter and Solenoid are good. I would first disconnect the cars battery Positive terminal. Then get under the car and disconnect the heavy main starter, high current wire and the smaller low current Solenoid wire. Then take a known good battery (not your old one) and using a GOOD quality set of jumper cables connect the negative of the battery to the car chassis. Now connect the battery positive to the Starter high current terminal with the other cable. Using a remote starter button from Autozone, connect one alligator lead to the battery positive terminal and the other to the Solenoid low current activation terminal. With the car in park now press the remote start button briefly. If your starter cranks you have eliminated the starter and Solenoid as a problem. If the Solenoid just makes a clicking noise when you press and release the stating button, You may have a bad solenoid and it’s time to pull the starter Solenoid from the car and bench test it.

I4) If the starter and solenoid are good and the Battery connection cable connectors are good, all in line fuses are good, the only other problem could be in the Ignition Switch to solenoid circuit. This is simple to verify and doesn’t require any special tools or knowledge. Take a simple automotive test light and maybe some alligator clips. Connect the test light between the Starter solenoid terminal and a good chassis ground. Assuming that you have reconnected the cars Fresh battery and reconnected the Solenoid and starter wiring, now turn the ignition key to the START position. Have someone monitor the test light, If the light does not come on you either have a bad ignition switch contact or the cars security or key electronics are not allowing the connection to make place. Only after doing all of the preceding simple elimination’s would I consider spending time chasing security and Ignition key electronics which require sophisticated equipment and knowledge beyond the scope of the average owner. It will be interesting to hear what the real problem was.

 

Rperformance is very much correct, that a logical and thorough troubleshooting approach needs to be employed here, and the most likely faults need to be fully dismissed before any sort of reprogramming is undertaken or much time and money can be wasted.

Has a known good battery, directly connected without jumper cables been tried as had been suggested? This is absolutely critical to get a valid assessment on this vehicle.

If you can't figure it out, the best advice may be to find a reputable independent Jag mechanic and keep your distance from the dealer on these older vehicles.

To answer your question, the SDD connects to the OBDII port. Based on the VIN number of your vehicle it can duplicate keys and reflash modules. It prompts you with instructions for these procedures. Done incorrectly though, you can also cause even bigger problems with this type of tool.

 

WhiteXKR and rperformance, my recent post from earlier today state the new battery swap was done and rendered no change.

All other posts state all the testing and experiments in proper and logical order.

The only test that was not performed is that of the starter itself which was fine prior to the battery drain.

As stated in todays earlier post, i repeated the alarm test during which the turning of the key from the ignition did not turn off the triggered alarm even though earlier tests of the exciter ring confirm the ring to be in proper working order.

rperformances' description of old school methods which i too have always employed are not applicable with this cars' setup due to the fact that this cars design incorporates an immobilizer.

Thank you,
Sid

 

Hi Sid,
As an electronics engineer of over 40 years I have always stuck to a simple and successful process when dealing with problems like this - concentrate on the last thing done/replaced before the fault occured.
Unless you have been subject to murphy's law with quantum odds it's unlikely to be anything too exotic.
If the battery, fuses, relays prove OK then it's probable a module got spiked,
the Instrument Panel being a candidate.
Sorry to sound like a broken record (yes, I do remember them!) but do you have any DTC codes showing?
Andrew

 

A proposed way forward:

I believe we know for sure, from a conclusive alarm system test, that the car does not recognize the key (call it CDNRK). If that's not so, stop reading; the rest of this post is of no use.

So long as CDNRK, in effect we don't have an ignition key. So should we be troubleshooting why the car won't start? Would we do so if the key were physically lost? None of the traditional troubleshooting methods, valid though they are, can help until we get the car to accept the key. And they may not be needed; there really is no reason at this point to think anything other than CDNRK is wrong with the car!

As I understand it, the only way to resolve CDNRK involves plugging in a box called an SDD (or a PC with the right software) to the car's OBD port. So it seems to me the only open question -- for now anyway -- is who should be picked to do this work ... A dealer, an indie, a locksmith, or Sid himself, having bought some gear required for the job. Nothing is going to give, the car has zero chance to start, until this is resolved.

(The only alternative is the one Sid mentioned earlier: trying to bypass the security system. The downside here is too grim to contemplate. I would not attempt it.)

Hang in there, Sid.

 

Sid, If this is what it appears too be, the home mechanic will be able to screw a XK8 up so bad it might explode.LOL I'm talking about me of course.
I will wait and see what the guru's think as the $50 is a no brainer.



Thanks, Wayne

 

Hi multiplecats, I don't have the tool to pull the codes, if any.

Is there a way to get them on the dash screen?

Thank you,
Sid

 

Hi Wayne, lol, what did you mean when you said "the $50 is a no brainer", $50 for what?

Thank you,
Sid

 

Sid, OK, I'm a bit confused here. I thought I saw a free download and you got the cable for 49 bucks and now I can't find it. Too much eggnog.
If the TPS sensor on another thread falls through, well it's just been a bad day.


Wayne

 

LOL...Probably more like not enough eggnog, too much added "flavoring".

 

Sorry you can't see them on the dash (though that would be good).
You'll need a OBDII scanner - a cheap generic one may see the DTCs you need but I suspect if it's a security thing then you may need to get something more sophisticated (see other posts).
Merry Christmas from the UK.

 

On the first page of this thread post #6 I gave detailed information on how to and what to check on the No Start situation. On the phone we talked about things to check and the possibility that the car is in shutdown. You said you tested the exciter ring and it tested good then shutdown is what is going on if all else is correct.

Now if you think for a moment someone can bypass the security system I would go so far to say you are mistaken.

Now the part I am not sure about is your programming a new key to unlock the security system. I think once the car is shutdown it needs to be reset by Jaguar and I am not sure what is needed to reset the security system. But I feel confident anything less than a proper reset of the security system would be frivolous.

Note: I am a bit confused that the security light is not blinking and I think it should be but I could be wrong.

 

Hi Gus, the security light is blinking.

At this point I am just trying to figure out if anyone other than Jaguar at $157/hr with a minimum of a 1hr charge, can do the reset etc.

Thanks alot,
Sid

 

With that light blinking you are in a lockout. I have a Mongoose but I have not attempted to do any reset on the security system and would not be able to provide any input. Please let us know how you make out.

 

Maybe I missed or misread someting from the begining. I thought that at some point you stated that you heard a Click under the hood when you tried to start it. My guess was that it might be the starter soleniod trying to energise the Starter which may not have cranked over do to insufficient current available. Thus my post about verifying the Main battery terminal to wire connection point as being a suspect culprit simply because you had to have moved the connection around in changing the battery. It may sound like old school to you but the fact is that it's Electricity 101.

My last step in verifying the Starter/Soleniod as being good is simple to do. If that verifys good, then you have eliminated the obvious without spending a lot of time or money and isolated the problem to be the Ignition switch / Security system / Imobilizer/ Bad key program. It ran fine until the battery died. If for some fluke reason an electronic module crapped out after the battery died, your never going to isolate on your own without having known good substitution modules availabe (and very expensive guesswork if you have to buy them and find out that's it's not the cure). Good luck, but it almost sounds like it's time to pony up and bring in the hired gun.

 

What I don't get about this system is if I can disarm the alarm with my remote then why does Jaguar find it necessary to take the security system to the next level where the car is completely immobilized if the key and security system don't match a code?

Seems like overkill to me, especially when they make the remedy proprietary.

Even with other systems where the remedy can be provided by a locksmith, by law, one must provide proof of ownership to the locksmith anyway.

Thank you,
Sid

 

Hi rperformance, I only said "old school" because it is to me, I have employed that method on older cars since decades ago and it would lead to a definitive result that lead to a certain remedy that I can deal with on my own, but with this car even if I rule out the starter the rest cannot be solved or remedied by myself because Jaguar made certain of that impossibility, at least not without spending all kinds.

I am not even getting a click so if the issue was not the starter and was ignition related then it would still not be possible to isolate the culprit because of all the other systems in between.

Then there is the fact that the alarm does not shut off via the ignition with the key while knowing the transponder ring is good.

Thanks alot,
Sid

 

Link: http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto.../jagxk1999.pdf , Thanks Alot Gus!

Hi all, I was looking at page 20 of 1999 XK8 electrical guide at jagrepair.com , it is showing multiple "key transponder modules", so couldn't any of those be affecting my situation and not just the exciter ring at the ignition?

Why so many key transponder modules?

How do we test them?

and to address rperformances' suggestions, i am also noticing "ignition positive relays" at least 2 of them on page 24.

How do we test relays?


Thanks alot,
Sid