In general, we all know modified cars command less money on sale than their original counterparts. I don't know that an LS-XK would suddenly become a $75k car or something, but I could totally see a well done one bringing in $30k, and certainly more than one with an original engine. But it's certainly not a given, and depends a lot on how tastefully the car was done.

These cars are super polarizing and have really weird effects on their market. Purists see them lumps and worthless, but people who love the body style but don't want to deal with Jaguar mechanical engineering really, really like these. There a lot of both kinds of people. Obviously it's not the same, but I've seen multiple XJC, XJ12, and XJS cars that have been LS swapped sell for amounts of money that far exceed intuitive market behavior. It's kind of mind boggling until you realize that a lot of people like Jaguar aesthetics but not Jaguar mechanicals or parts availability.

 

To each their own.

The reality is today Restomods (like the desirable GM LS engines) are commanding more money than a stock car and more and more people prefer them. Lumps on the other had with a Chevy 350 or other old technology V8 will not be desirable for even people whom favor Restomod cars. I have seen Jaguars with a good quality Restomod LS engine clearly sell for more money than a stock Jag and I have continued to get offers on my Jaguar well over any stock version and over what I have into it. The main reason why the LS is the most popular restomod engine for so many different cars is that they provide 400-700 HP reliable power that is light weight (lighter than most stock engines they are replacing) and they consistently run to 250,000 miles +

An XK8 only has 290 or 300HP brand new, the XKR is the more desirable model as it had 370 or 400HP but when they are rebuilt completely it will be about $3-4K in parts so the total will be $5-$9K depending on who does the work. A used semi-low mileage XK8 will be around $3500-$4500 so if you are handy you can put a used engine but remember the transmission is also needing be rebuilt as well so the $$ will add up pretty fast and then you might get another 50-90,000 miles before you are at that 175-200,000 mile range where it is likely to fail. That is why these cars are going cheap as the cost to refurbish the engine, trans, brakes, suspension is way more than what you would ever get out on resale but they are nice looking cars so you can just drive until it dies and be prepared to invest a lot to rebuilt it, or buy a used Jaguar with lower miles and start over, or consider an LS upgrade.

There is not right way, it is what you want to do. For me I love my Jaguar and I drive way more than most, averaging 30,000+ miles/year so for me the LS is ideal so I can have a daily driver that is reliable and low cost to service and when it eventually fails somewhere likely around 300,000 miles which for me will be only another 5 -6 years I will likely do a high quality rebuild of this LS engine and continue having fun with my Jag. If you are a really handy guy you could do well buying a totally dead XK8 or XKR and do an LS swap and sell it and make a little money or just keep it and have an enjoyable daily driver you do not need to worry about how many miles you drive...

 

I agree with most of what you said but today things are changing and a lot of desirable cars that are modified are commanding higher prices that their original counterparts. What is happening is younger people and the middle age folks are wanting performance and reliability more over having cars as collectable jewels. You are right Jaguar owners in general are very biased to stock. Younger people would not want an older Jaguar unless it is a restomod as they would prefer a new F-type Jag, etc. Now even the previously biased numbers matching announcers at the Barrett auctions are finally changing their view in the last couple of years as they have seen the Restomods sell more than stock cars. That is the trend people want performance, reliability, but something unique and cool; having a Jaguar with the cool look but the reliability is why Restomods in general are outpacing stock. Right now a restomod 240z or 67-69'Chevy Camaro will sell for more than a numbers matching in many instances, something most would never thought would happen.

 

Me neither. There is a whole thread here on how much minty XJS convertibles are climbing in value. The other day I saw a 1997 DB7 advertised for sale in Arizona for $40,000. It has only 1100 miles.

@primaz

Regarding the XK8, if the timing gear was replaced what reliability issues are there? The 4.0 engines are good for well beyond 90k miles. That is where many have failed only because of owner negligence. The later 4.2 didn't even have that issue. It isn't surprising many Jaguar owners are not into mods. These are grand tourers not hot rod type cars.

Finally, regarding ease of service. If you're capable then it doesn't matter much if your car is stock powered or a lump. Now if you are not mechanically inclined and purchased a lumper then who would work on it considering the car is essentially custom engineered. A Jag specialist might not be familiar with Chevy engines and a general mechanic would be more stumped being most components of the car are still Jaguar.

Yep. If I wanted GM engineering I'd just go ahead and buy a GM vehicle. It's amazing how the "unreliable" myth floats around even on a Jaguar enthusiast forum.

 

The Trans in the 4.0L XK8 is a "sealed unit" from the factory and is way less reliable than ANY transmission GM put behind ANY LS motor. Getting 100K miles out of one without it needing a rebuild in light duty "grand touring" service would be lucky. The 4L80 in my Yukon has nearly 200K miles with 10's of thousands of those pulling a 9K lb trailer and it still shifts like new. The 6 speed autos might be better, but JS doesn't convert those to LS power.

I own a XK8 (bought for $4,500) and a XJ8 (40K miles, bought for $2,900), and multiple other makes of cars and I do 99% of the work on them. Someone like me would be in a better position to know the pro's and the cons of a motor swap than someone who 1) doesn't own and X100 or X308 and/or 2) has never owned an LS powered vehicle.

If I've owned a car and it sucked, I will tell someone straight up if it sucked. I've owned close to 20 classic, stock muscle cars. Though some can do some things well, straight up, most are awful. People that have never owned, driven, or lived with these cars will argue with me how great some model is or "how much they are worth". Unless they have owned, driven and lived with a car, their opinions are worthless to me and they are just talking to hear themselves talk.

If someone wants to spend $40K on a 20 year old DB7, they can knock themselves out. That will NEVER be me. If I find one needing little work for $7,000, maybe.

 

First off, everyone can do what they feel is best for their vehicle. Would I stick an LS motor in my new to me XKR at this point, no. If I blew the motor up, or got a car dirt cheap car with out one, might I consider it, maybe, but doubtful. But for those that are interested, I'm glad this option is available. But, I would not consider doing this a way to increase the value of your vehicle beyond a well sorted stock one.

There are several reasons the restomod scene has been doing great over the last 5 years, and has seemed to really peak at auction this year, and replacing the jaguar motor in an XK would not meet the majority of those. The ones you see that do increase the value of the car, are doing much more than just an engine swap. It's in the title, they are not just restoring these cars, they are modernizing them. They are taking cars, with poor suspension, poor brakes, uncomfortable interiors, and inefficient engines, and fixing all those characteristics while mostly maintaining the exterior styling that has made those particular cars popular for 60 years. And it most cases they are sticking within the brand when it comes to the engine. So someone takes a 68 Mustang that originally came with an inline 6, and stick a new frame with a modern suspension, disc brakes, and a coyote engine married to a new 10 speed transmission, and does it well, yes that is going to be a popular car that goes for a high price. Same for a Dodge, Chevy, or even an old Datsun. I even think it's possible for someone to do something similar with an e type and a newer supercharged Jaguar 5.0, and this might also be seen as a worthy restomod. The point is you are improving on areas these cars were lacking at the time, and keeping the things that made them great. I think by that very nature, it is a much harder thing to do with a late model car (even a 20 year old one), since the automotive science hasn't increased enough to see a big enough difference in improvement in doing a full restomod on these vehicles yet. At this point in time, I'm not convinced that replacing a Jag 4.2 with a GM motor is that much of an improvement for the average driver. This is not to say 20 years down the line, it might not make sense with newer advanced tech. Maybe that will be electric motors and batteries, and maybe it will be something else entirely, who knows. Oh, and yes this is nothing new, hot rodders have been doing it for 80 years, the difference is they didn't used to care as much about maintaining the original exterior look of the vehicles.

Anyway, my 2 cents on the subject.

 

@Ungn The ZF 5HP24 is serviceable. Changing the fluid and filter every 30 to 50k miles is a good idea. Again, the failures we see are mostly from owner neglect.

https://www.xk8-parts.com/2012/11/xk...l-service-kit/

$40k is not that high for what is essentially a new AM convertible. A 2019 fully loaded Camry or base 3 Series costs close to that. You keep it in good shape and the miles down and it should stay around that price, eventually even start climbing.

290hp out of a small displacement V8 is pretty impressive, actually. The LS3 is 6.2L.

 

Who is "we"? How many miles are on your X100?

Do A drums break from "owner neglect"? There sure seem to be a lot of "neglected" XK8's out there. There are at least 4 being parted out in Dallas, today. In a couple weeks, a different 3-4 will be being parted out. All seem to have no real body damage for some strange reason. It all kind of makes someone go hmmmm, and makes swapping in a drivetrain that millions of truck owners in the US know is reliable, a plus. The majority of people in the US that own multiple high performance cars (the target demographic for an LS swapped Jag), own a truck to tow them.

My '97's 5HP24 has about 90K miles on it. Do I trust it to drive to work? ehhh... maybe if one of my 160K mile miata's batteries are dead... I have AAA so what's the worst that could happen?. Would I trust it to drive across country? No way.

Would I get in my 2000 Yukon XL 2500 4X4 with 195K miles on its "owner neglected" 4L80 transmission and drive it across the country pulling a 9,000 lb trailer? Sure, tomorrow.

No need for me to rebuilt the 5HP24 because it will eventually be replaced with one of the T56 Magnums I have sitting in my garage. I'm pretty confident converting a $4,500 XK8 coupe to a 6 speed manual won't kill its resale value. Not that I would ever sell it, because I love it. With my 400+ RWHP (what it made in the camaro before it was pulled) all aluminum 5.7L, 6 speed manual and a planned Quaife rear differential, I can't see how I would love my XK8 less.

If other people don't love it, that's ignorance on their part. Ignorance like people paying $1 Million+ for '71 Cuda convertibles, one of the worst driving, worst handling cars I've ever put 30K miles on...but what are you gonna do? Nobody selling is going to tell bidders how truly terrible they are... its like you have to sign an NDA. I only paid $7,500 for my 54K mile example... and it was the "best handling" 'Cuda340 version.. I can't even imagine how bad the 300lb+ heavier Hemi's are. yikes..

My XJ8 Drivetrain will remain stock of now, because it only has 41K miles on it... and is basically a rich guys Buick and not a tight GT Coupe like my XK8. The XJ8 isn't begging for 400 HP and a 6 speed manual.

 

An Austin Martin that was basically not driven with only 1100 miles for $40K is not showing increased value as the list price in 1997 for that car was $125K. The average DB7 with normal use is going from a low of $27K to a high of $34K for a 1997 DB7 that and your undriven example is showing that the value has dropped like a rock from $125K.

When you properly do a restomod of an modern LS engine everything is there for any mechanic to easily work on, the ECU is the same, they plug in and diagnose the engine, etc. The only things that are Jaguar are things like wipers, and stock electrical, there is no issue on a GM mechanic not being able to service that at all.90,000 miles is something you are bragging about? An LS engine will easily go 250,000+ miles and their transmissions will also go about 200-250,000 miles. I own a fleet of over 24 and I see that reliability even when people do not do the oil changes when I would prefer them to do. On my Jaguar with an LS1 I have driven over 30,000 miles a year and drive it hard, in the last three years I am over 100,000 miles and have no worry taking it on long drives hundreds of miles of hard driving with no issues.

The LS is a great option to consider when your engine is at the end of life. In these Jaguar forums many will never want to listen to the facts and that is just reality as I have learned they are the least open minded group for any modifications but the many other auto lovers do appreciate a good restomod…

While the XK8, XKR are more modern that the Jaguar I restomoded, there are ways to improve on those. The suspension can be easily upgraded with better performance such as coil over kits, etc. that will enable you to push the handling to new limits; you can also upgrade the brakes to larger more powerful performance brakes. Things like that along with the increase powerplant will turn an XK8 into a great restomod that will pull better performance specs in every benchmark.

 

Anyone paying attention.

The general public does all sorts of moronic things with cars. I'll bet many E Types were lumped, scrapped, or parted out in the early 80's because they were "worth" the equivalent of only four thousand 2019 dollars.

I could also get into a Peterbilt 387 with an 18sp Eaton Fuller and drive two thousand miles while pulling 43k lbs in the wagon attached to it. Irrelevant to the discussion.

4L80 has it's problems.

https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/...sion-problems/

Now it might not harm value but wait another decade and compare a lumper with an original minty example.

It's not ignorance but appreciation for everything about the cars, including the factory powerplant. If you lump them they're not Jaguars anymore.

I will assume those million dollar Barracudas are 100% original examples. If one was lumped with even with a Hellcat engine they'd fetch nowhere near that money. Why? Because originality is key here.

 

Yes, compared to what the original owner paid it. If that car was lumped and had the same mileage you'd be lucky to get $15k for it.

I am saying the AJV8 is good for well beyond 90k. I have recently seen some approaching 200k. If my engine was at the end of it's life the only options would be to rebuild it or find another factory one.

 

there are two sides to every coin. my personal preference is for the original setup, and anyone would agree that a rare and valuable specimen should be kept original or at least restore-able. mine is a daily driver where the roads are reasonable and things relatively safe and has been driven by me across the country twice including in some remote areas. it is a very reliable hobby car and in general as an older car if you know the weaknesses. for the sake of it, i replaced only the A-drum before failure and constantly recommend people to do so. it will be fun to see how the transmission ages without this potential failure resulting in an early rebuild.

when one deals with an older or historic car one often likes the good aspects in spite of the bad ones. some collectible cars of the American makes have no good aspects, some do. one thing that collectors of these XK8s and XKRs might have to deal with is that the pristine original, unmolested examples will be too valuable to drive if they increase in value or collect-ability in the future. this is why i parted with my series 1 XKE, too valuable to risk. those who keep their cars as drivers with spares around including the modifiers and lumpers might trade value for smiles. many collectors of American muscle cars often tell me that in addition to not using them much, they are forced to keep them as bad as they were and are. many of these car were stodgy sedans and a few artistic concepts that the manufacturers simply hyped up with marketing and powerful engines, little more, and spent years developing no core competency resulting in the near failure of their industry.

the LS is a very good engine, which they should have developed many years prior, nice of them to get around to it. among the GM fans however, there is a sentiment that they are using it in too many things and falling for their old trick of one corporate engine in various tunes. other fans would also like a smaller displacement offering. i have personal friends and clients with multi-million dollar collections which include Corvettes who openly say that using this same engine is holding the Corvette back long term and that it could be much better without a corporate V8. and the company has nothing for the lighter duty sports car market or even sports sedan. this is the same market that the XK8 and XKR engine fits into just as BMW and Mercedes have offerings, let's not forget about Lexus and Acura.

the modification community is very artistic and does some amazing things. in many cases the restomods rival modern cars. other times it creates automotive kitsch which is not really that useful or enjoyable, just concepts and presentations. we should be open to the modifiers here as they are adding to the knowledge and keeping cars on the road and accessible. many ideas come out of the modifier community and find their way into mainstream vehicles. perhaps what people resent is that the elegant LS kit is too easy. some Jaguar owners in my community constantly say to every problem, "throw an LS motor in it," to the point where it becomes annoying. secretly they and other car guys parroting the same resent those who can fix things or like many of us have no major problems if any. the LS motor has become a staple of many builders, however sameness is not always conducive to innovation. some just like a challenge. one day someone will take the 5.0 version of the AJ engine and put it in something interesting with complete computer integration and full emissions functionality and be truly different.

 

As always, a polarising subject.

I'm firmly in the camp of maintaining originality wherever possible, but so much depends on what you're trying to achieve. Is the car in your custody because a) you're hoping that its future value will make you rich, b) you want something with style that gives you a fun ride along the way?

I imagine most of us are firmly in category b: we already have the style, so its a matter of our individual definitions of 'fun'.

The threads of primaz, Doug Dooren and homersimpson over on the mk2 forum show three totally different approaches to the rescue of a 1960s Jaguar saloon. I find all the end results pretty impressive.

It doesn't really matter a hoot what others think: if it works for you, it's all good.


Well - mostly....

 

huh? My Yukon XL has an LS power plant..duh. I wasn't aware Peterbilts do.

What country are you from? You don't seem to know **** about american cars....other than crap you google:

Some guy from somewhere unknown telling me my 195K Mile LS/Auto truck "has it's problems" based on him typing "4L80 problems" into google is a real eye roller. You know that, right?

In another decade, I'll be the guy driving my 400 RWHP, 6 sp XK8 while the "minty original" owner will be the one worrying about all of the plastic in his valve train self destructing or his trans lunching. You can probably guess who is enjoying their XK8 more.

I appreciate cars, but cars were meant to be driven, not parked in a garage to be looked at. Having owned a lot of "totally Stock" Iconic cars in the past (my old house in SC had a 13 car garage), I can say from first hand experience, a lot of "Iconic" cars really sucked to drive in their "all original" form. Xk8's are beautiful and drive and handle great, but they are underpowered and the drivetrains are unreliable; for which thankfully, there are solutions.

Again I ask "how many miles are on YOUR XK8?"

 

^^ Tell us more about your former 13-car garage. Who built that and why? Did the garage have more square footage than the house?

 

Jon, When I moved to Greer, SC in 1995, we built a house in a neighborhood that was 'Pro car guy". Besides the 3 car garage on the house we built a 62' X 32' detached garage. The first bay is a heated workshop. The house has a full basement so the house wins for Square footage. My wife hated it, but it was a great house. Here is a current street view:



Through the 80's and 90's my dad and I collected '60's and 70's muscle cars (he had a 16 car garage). In my garage I had 4 AMX's, 3 'Cuda's, a Marlin, Mustangs, my Buick T-type, Chevelle convertible, Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my truck and trailer... Dad had a '71 Baldwin Motion Camaro, Torino Twister Special, Cyclone Spoiler, a 427 SO powered '66 Shelby Cobra replica, plus some obscure stuff only he could love like a '78 Mustang King Cobra.

When I moved to Texas in 2000, I had to downsize my garage to 8 cars, but I managed to squeeze in 9 cars during the last hail threat.


.

 

Now THAT is automotive passion. My wife would despise that as well. So would my bank account....

 

I love it, might have to replace the drive way for the extension, OH, and add a LS1 conversion bay or two.
Might have to move you down here Jon for the big jobs. LOL
You should see all the "Mods" on the Triumph Forum, we call them upgrades.
Be interesting where these cars (XK8's) are in 50 years like our Triumphs, who's going to make the parts. Trouble with salvage parts is the same things that put the car in the salvage yard is the part you need. Best of British luck.

 

Wayne, I wonder if gasoline and oil will even be available in 50 years. Or 25 years....

Maybe everything will have to be converted to aviation fuel....

 

My dad retired from construction management in 1993, was bored so he built "car guy" houses until my mom told him to stop about 10 years later. I think we sold the SC house for $350K. It would probably bring a little more than that today. I watch those house buying shows where a young married couple are looking at a house with no garage and its a "bargain" @ $750K and I just roll my eyes. That will never be me or any kid of mine.