I did say I would work on maybe finding a solution to an improved shock tower bushings.
First off, I can't believe we could feel the difference on the spring bushing that is being sold, sponge or hard rubber.
That spring gives it a heck of a pounding on any bump for a split second and to think the material would make a lot of difference in the ride, not sure about that. The stock one sure gets hammered away in short order.
Now, the shock does cushion the blow and the rubbers surrounding it to keep the tires on the ground.
There three pieces to the top of the tower to hold the stem of the shock, that's just the plates, now inside that are two bushings and plate between them. All the inside pieces depend on a crush factor to hold them in place.
A little research shows keeping them centered is one issue that contributes to their destruction.
I checked out the assembly and what could possible be one reason that area moves. I thought it was the crush factor, being able to get the corners protruding out of the hole. Maybe, but after looking at things that might be a problem, the shock nut should be turned until a positive stop to be sure it doesn't move inside the washer between the two bushings. This would give more of a pounding effect on the bushing instead of a cushioning effect. They were not designed for that, well, the sponge ones had no chance, no elastic response. The shock stem will start to move when the plastic on the nut hits the threads, so it must be held by some means to get the nut fully seated on the washer between the two sponge bushings or rubber, depending on the system used.
Back to the drawing board.
Now, I know I will have to cut what I have, a Universal Motor Mount, to fit with a good crush factor, like any normal shock mount, but the top washer plate had too big a hole in it, so will use the motor mount washer, cut to size and tack welded in place.
This mount has a dome and fits nicely inside on the sides of the bottom plate. The top one has a ridge that fits inside the washer to be installed.
This is a work in progress, but work or not, I'm moving forward.
Hit the Spoiler tag, don't know how that happened.

 

Great information Wayne. I hope that aftermarket motor mount solution is indeed the answer. The XK8/XKR community sure needs a better solution ever since the Welsh Enterprises product's quality took a turn for the worse a few years ago. Keep us posted on how your experiments are turning out....

 

I was so disillusioned when I received my Welsh upper mounts that I took them apart to see if I could improve them a bit before installing.

As delivered the center hole/disc was off center on both. Upon disassembling them I noticed that they had less pressure on the urethane than the OEM have on the foam. I also noticed the oem foam actually fi into a cavity and weren’t free to move around. The welsh unit is simply a flat circular blob with the metal center section. The only thing centering the blob was how the blob was positioned before riveting the upper and lower together.

Fortunately for me after pulling the welsh units apart I was pulled away from working on them for a few weeks. This allowed the blob to reshape itself without any indication of where the center opening marks were. I repositioned them into the ‘center’ and then proceeded to fill the void around them with some hi temperature silicone. Clamped them together, riveted them and they sat for another month or so.

I finally installed them a few weeks back and the car does ride better. I do not know if I helped them do a better job for me or not but I feel better seeing them centered every time I open the hood…and I know the silicone I added will prevent the blob from relocating itself. I now have two sets of OEM upper housings and when the welshs take a dive I’ll make a new set from some polyurethane board.

Good luck with your adventure.



wj

 

Good idea to fill up the void. That is pretty much what the domed bushing is going to do at the bottom.
The top one will have a washer that centers the bushing with a ridge around it, but could still use your idea.
Hope all were able to see the pictures by clicking on the Spoiler.
Thanks.

 

Clicking on the + symbol in your first post does indeed reveal the photos. Thanks....

 

I spent some time yesterday making sure the top shock tower was going to be a stable configuration inside the two plates concerned. Except for the fact it will need 3 spot welds to hold a replacement upper plate of the correct size hole for the bushing ridge, an easy fix for any do it yourselfer.
Where I'm running into a small problem, is the spacer between the shock mount and the spring. I did find a 1/2 inch spacer with six holes , which is perfect for the protrusion of the mounting studs and pop rivets in the compression plates at the top. It's an aluminum wheel spacer, so should stand up, (to be determined).
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Alumi...xoC4AsQAvD_BwE
The area of concern is the original sponge or rubber spacer has an additional ridge fitting around the bell area. Is this not being in place going to let the spring move around.
That plate has a ridge around the inside to hold the coil in place, I think, but without the ridge, is this going to let the coil slide back and forth?
I did observe the there is very little wear on that ridge compared to the flat area. Another thing on the area that really is the wear problem as it gets crushed, is the photos of the Welsh kit on one of the members thread, was the ring hanging out about 3 or 4 inches and it didn't have the ridge on it. Is (was) it something that was not added to the correct height and the spring moved so much it destroyed it by cutting the ridge off by the plate moving?
I have found some spring caps that might solve this, but need to, as Jethro would say "cipher" on it some more.
Hate to buy the Welsh kit just for that spacer, kind of defeats the effort involved.

 

Energy Suspension makes a Spring Insulator (which is all that top bushing is and what a bad choice of material).

Their fit is so close, the over all OD is 3/16 of a inch all around short of filling the area between the plates.
It's made from their red bushing material and is for this purpose.
Where I was thinking our trouble was all the top shock tower problem, turns out it was two different problems and checking the two I have, the inside foam that holds the shock was much less prone to self destruct than that spring insulator.
The ES # A-9.6120, it has a 5/8 inch thickness, which is right on the original spec. I have a few more measurements to take but the 3 3/4 inch ID is correct and it has the ridge fitting on the bell to stop the movement of the plate. 'The plate does have a ring that contacts the ID of the spring, but the cushion on that bell was my concern.
Still going to use the Universal Engine Mount for inside the bell for the shock stem. Getting the cut right will take a few tries to get a good crush factor.
So far with shipping, around $100.
Just checked Amazon $29.84 for a pair and no shipping.

 

Thanks for update Wayne, you seem to be creeping toward a viable replacement for the problematic upper shock mount. Please keep us advised. The Energy Suspension seems to good quality material. I modified one of their rod link kits for my rear sway bar link bushings.

 

Thanks Kelly, like you, I look for their part to fit on Triumph's and MG's before I look at the stock ones.
Here's hoping this works out, going to be a while.

 

I took a look at those red Energy Suspension isolators on Amazon and they appear to be very close to being perfect for the custom shock mount application. So keep us posted on your progress, Wayne....

 

A bit of a update.
On considering the solid spring insulator, ie cutting board and wheel spacer. A idea that will give the ride height and make the geometry right, just after talking to a few guys that have done this in the race cars and knowing the Triumph GT6 has one on the drivers side front. they do not "Insulate". So on a GT Touring car, not something most of us would be happy with the results.
So the foam we all know as being a bad idea, was in fact there to keep us from hearing the chassis noise.
Understanding that the Triumph TR4-6 had spring rubbers on them and they were quite until all the bushing wore out and the Spitfire's and Gt6's did not have them in front, were very noisy and had a kind of rattle.
I need to get the up graded Energy Suspension one first and made sure of the fit.
We all know this has got to be right or it's wrong.

 

After a bit more research trying to find better fits, I did some more mic'ing of the parts and came across what may be a issue for the DIY guy.
This may be causing a problem with the centering inside the mount.
The shock stem has a taper on it, so the washer inside the mount also has a reverse taper and if the washer is not turned to the correct orientation, the shock stem will not seat or go into the washer enough to make a solid contact.
When Jon and I did the Welsh ones on his wife's car, we did have some problem getting the shock stem far enough into the washer to make what we considered a good solid contact. It didn't take long to see our error in assembly, but for those that did not see this, could that be causing some of the problems with the centering.
Not pointing fingers, just point to a error that can cause the stem of the shock to not be stable in that washer.
Just want to point out something that is not in any instruction I've seen, well, remember seeing.

 

Thanks Wayne, would you post a pic of the washer. Thought the washer was orientated to face up with the drain hole facing to inside lower part of tower to allow moisture to drain if it accumulated. Help us visualize this item please.

 

Here you go.
You are right that the drain hole needs to go towards the inside at the bottom to let water run down the shock stem and out of the plates.
That is why I'm having to figure a larger hole in the center of both bushing to keep those holes open.
With the original cap that was on the top mount, not such a worry, but we all know most are not there anymore. The bottom bushing can be a bit less snug but the top one has to clear the hole.
You can see if the nut was placed on the slanted side of the washer, it could send the stem a bit sideways.
I did think the slant on the shock, just below the threads was a lock in seat, but it must just be a alignment helper as is the slant on the washer. It surely works, easy to get it to line up in a press.
Oops, they are a bit large, sorry.

 

Thanks Wayne, The top pic is the up side and the 2nd pic is the bottom or side that goes down. That is what I envisioned. Your research is appreciated. Have a Great Day!

 

Kelly, no that is the opposite.
The shot with the washer showing the flat side and the nut is the top side.
If the flat side is installed on the bottom, the stem shelf will not let the rubbers compress without some major effort to get the nut on. The stem goes into the concaved area almost a 1/4 inch before hitting the shelf on the stem.
The bottom picture shows the orientation a little better.

 

Gotcha, will ck and see how I did it. Maybe I did it backwards. With the unit installed , would the weight of car on the shock and spring keep it down while it was reinstalled correctly? An impact wrench would loosen the nut to allow removal of the washer to reinstall correctly, I suspect. Thanks for you info and posts.

 

Sorry to say, that won't work, as the plates for the top of the strut are under the body panel and the bushing can't get out of the hole at the top.
Easy enough to check, just look and see if the nut is on a flat area and the hole for water is clear. If installed wrong the nut should almost cover the hole that's very close to the shock stem. So with luck you did it right, as not much thread would be able to get on the nut, but as we know, it's such a a pain to get the bushings and all compressed in the housing, very easy to get it on wrong.
If you do it like me, on a press and you are reaching under the framing to get the nut on and running it down with air, well, I'm glad that's done and not really check. LOL
The ones that the assembly's are already put together is the best, except for the material.
Turns out this job requires we pay a lot more attention on how things go together. Not a hard job, unless the A arm bolt wants to be difficult. Taking the liner out and not taking the A arm out is going to be the way I go next time, if no play in the bushings. What are the odds on that, with the years on these cars.

 

Fortunate! the smooth sides were up and all appears well. Thank you for all your insight and work. When the snow and ice melt, maybe I can get out on the road again. We caught the ice and 4" snow here north of H'ville Al.

 

Glad all was well in Huntersville, well shock wise.
We had two days of rain and some ice, but the temperature was so close to freezing we stayed in place. Pretty much do than anyway right now.
The garage warmed right up to 37 and I checked out a couple of bushings I had laying around. The top bushing on the TR6 rear is cone shaped and about 2 3/4 inch wide. I can get a poly one and with the motor mount on the bottom and the TR6 on top, we may have a winner. Well, until I see something else. LOL
Nothing but the spring insulator is going to work without opening up the center hole and getting the height right.
Take care.