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Worked on a buddies car today, (another thread), but a few tell tale signs of work 5 years ago, on the mounts. His car has a grand total of 7000 miles in that five years.
The mounts were right out of the dealers stock in Winston Salem, NC..
The top ridge that was crushed out of the top has crumbled off, it's off center, car is down to 15 inches, center to wheel well arch. Car is stored mostly inside, so best I can figure, they are designed to melt away after a given time. About what we figured.
As long as you are reading, one other little bit on the top bell and rivets.
If you have done this job and couldn't get the rivets to hold, I think they are a metric rivet originally. The holes are a little larger than a 1/8 inch, so when crushed, not enough metal edge to grab the outer edge of the hole.
I put a 1/8 inch washer on the bottom of a river and loosened up the screws holding it. Two days and it's holding just fine, that problem solved for now.
This is about the work I did with the Energy Suspension 9-6108R.
To start I must explain a couple of things about the making of the enclosed bell at the top of the shock mount.
They are made by compressing metal plates in a mold; therefore all edges have a slightly rounded corner. Unlike the cast poly bushings, which have sharp edges.
I saw where the original insulator had relief on the bottom and added one to my first effort. It made the fit much better, but it was not the best of fit around the metal spring collar.
Because these are designed to fit around the bell shape the opening in the middle is somewhat concaved, with a smaller opening at the bottom when installed. This has worked to our advantage in the newer bushing find, as it’s a good fit just not much cushion 5/16 instead of 5/8. I knew this was going to be a double insulator effort going in. Here’s the answer I came up with and believe it will hold things in place much better than the first attempt, maybe better than original.
I had to cut a ¼ inch relief on the bottom of both insulators, in doing so the first one sat flush with the bottom of the plate (except for the pop rivet area) and when the other one was installed on top, the relief fit over the top of the first one and some pressing by hand closed it up to almost invisible. This made the outer ring wider and restricted the spring plate to very little movement, without a big effort. Installed with weight of the car on it, this has got to be good.
I do think I will drill a small hole in the one that fits at the top to countersink the pop rivets into the rubber, might save tearing a hole in the rubber (poly) with all the banging and clanging these parts will incur during their lifetime. If you look at some of the insulators for modern struts, they have a small depression in the rubber where the three bolt heads set that hold it in place in the body.
I found another interesting ware area that most would not see.
The plate that rides on the insulator on the bottom where the spring rides, on two of the ones I have were worn in two places. Enough so you could see the squared off end had sat there and catch it with you finger nail. Don’t think is a major concern in most cases, just something to check while you are in there. That is a metal-on-metal area I’m not happy with. Will check for a thin insulator there.
As you can see on the last picture above, those pop rivets make the rubber stand off the flat.
Did a bit of drilling tonight and we now have a completed unit. Only really concentrated on one good one incase my ciphering was a bit off, not wanting to destroy two bushing. Already have a couple for the "just in case box".
The two insulators fit together like a glove and I may have to buy a sheet of neoprene to make a spring seat, if I go that way. One eighth inch should do.
Well, now there is a question I haven't given much thought to. Surely I can keep the parts under $100, but I don't have the bells in place and that is going to be a problem.
It would have to be on a turnaround or have the old ones sent back after installing mine, not a good situation if your car is up on stands in a garage.
Best is to have just the bushing sent out, then I have to figure a bullet proof way to get them in place with out operator error.
Getting the bushing may have just had a kink put in the chain. The Speedway motor mounts I got in yesterday, both had the issue of the washer not being installed flat, so having to drill it flat to fit on our washer required I drill down further than I like. Back to the drawing board.
I think I figured out a way to use the same Energy Suspension bushing I used for the top, just cutting the tongue to make a perfect fit. I had a go last evening and think I have it. Now to tear apart the one I had finished and throw away the Speedway parts. They worked, and will use if that is all I can come up with. That was a big waste of time as it stands right now. Depending on a consistent manufactory process is a thing of the past.
Sorry, can't blame Speedway, just not designed for some nut to take it apart and use it on a Jaguar shock tower. LOL You have to laugh.
When I get this sorted, I'll order enough for 5 cars and get them ready for those that can do their own install and in the mean time will try to gather up as many used top mount as I can. Not going to be a tomorrow situation.
Kind of glad the Speedway thing is a issue, will make it a lot easy to keep to one company, it's going to be great or not at all.
Worked a bit on getting the new bushing fitted and doing a better job than the Speedway one.
After drilling a small cannel in the top lip and cutting the excess off with a carpet knife a really nice fit into the bottom hole. A little off center but that should allow the drain hole to be open. Still have to counter sink the 1 1/4 inch hole for the washer crown and we will see how it fits up and if the crush factory is not too much.
The new one being the red.
Still have not found a good spring seat, but will keep checking, the sheeting idea is looking better all the time.
Loving the progress and I am very interested Wayne. My current Welsh units, my third pair of them, are starting to fail after about a year. I do have a second car and can do the install myself. I am willing to send you my current Welsh units as a core if needed whenever you have ready those first five sets you mentioned.
I can also leave my car on jackstands if necessary.
Last edited by giandanielxk8; Apr 14, 2021 at 10:56 PM.
^^ Wayne, he may be the perfect choice to test your prototype design once you have it completely sorted. If he has had to go through three different Welsh installs, your prototype install should be a piece of cake for him....
Jon, Agree, Daniel would be the perfect candidate, he could do it in a couple of hours.
Best part, he's a good ways away and would have a hard time coming to kick my *** when it was so stiff, it rattled his teeth.
I need to really jump on finding the thin pad for the spring to set on.
Lets see, golf or look for a elusive part, decisions, decisions.
If Daniel is the guinea pig it should be known that the welsh mount metal pieces are not exactly the same as oem.
I noticed that the welsh had some welding where the oem had a formed portion...or (my mind is going) the oem had a full. 360 degree bead, weld where as the welsh had equally spaced spot welds...sorry I don't remember exactly but there was a difference.
This is info to avoid the disaster of all this work not fitting the welsh metal pieces that Daniel probably has laying around.
wj
Thank you Jim.
I will check out the few I have, surely they can't all be one or the other.
In the area you are talking about at the bottom, I do see spot welds on the one I was working on in a couple of places, yet one has a smooth ring where the Speedway bushing did set down into the channel.
With the new bushing being a larger diameter, that shelf, even with the spot welds should crush in that area and give it even more stability. There is the lip that protrudes outside the hole. Not like the original which required a lip to be crushed out. Will certainly check both ways.
Jim, have a look at the ones I have a comparison a couple of threads back and yes you can see the area is different. That is on the outside, I'll look real close on the inside.
Don't think it's going to be a issue, but will check for any rough areas that could tear the bushing.
That would be something a installer would have to pay attention too and be sure to grind all of that smooth.
ATTENTION DANIEL, LOL
Wayne - if your interested - I have my last set of Welsh carcasses (metal shells) sitting on a shelf in my garage. Was going to try to play with them but no time so would gladly donate to the cause
After thinking it over (all night), I have to wonder if Gain has any shock problems and I understand a lot of roads in PR are not the best. Therefore it's really a good test of the mount.
I was going to get Gain (not Daniel) to put these together with one of his old Welsh ones, but I think I better send him the proto type I put together to be sure in my mind if something goes haywire, it's my problem not his.
I finally found some what looks to be a good spring pad material and will try to get the new bushings cut and the pads cut out, put it together and send it to Gain Monday, with any luck at all.
After thinking it over (all night), I have to wonder if Gain has any shock problems and I understand a lot of roads in PR are not the best. Therefore it's really a good test of the mount.
I was going to get Gain (not Daniel) to put these together with one of his old Welsh ones, but I think I better send him the proto type I put together to be sure in my mind if something goes haywire, it's my problem not his.
I finally found some what looks to be a good spring pad material and will try to get the new bushings cut and the pads cut out, put it together and send it to Gain Monday, with any luck at all.
My shocks are in good condition. They are firm and are not leaking fluid. The roads here are trash, although slowly getting better. I'd be happy to receive either the prototype or to assemble it myself. I will leave that decision up to you.
Oh, by the way, Daniel is my middle name. Gian or Daniel is fine by me.
