no - you can remove items while top is up

 

Alright, I dug in tonight after work. No obvious fluid spills or puddles... though there are some stains on the passenger side under that seat if I'm honest. The foam felt pretty dry though... Remember most of my fluid was on the ground behind the rear passenger tire and the CD changer/pump rack was definitely soaked. I believe the leak is at the pump (maybe the hoses were changed before and bled out under the seat before?). However, the black pieces flaking off the hoses were prevalent on the other ends at the (cylinders? I expected massive capacitor looking things and was surprised by what I found, let's call them) struts! Both sides as you can see below. Some debris has collected below them over the years and it's dry, lending credence to the pump-end blowout further. Scroll down for testing info...

Passenger side:





Driver's side







Well fair enough! Time to place the pump in a bowl, fill 'er up, and plug in these connectors to test it ou....ohhhhh noooo!



So now I need to replace these two... what are these called up top exactly? The whole assy. for each. Please let me know the name and where best I could find a pair to replace mine. Stopping here for awhile it appears (and won't be driving it this weekend).

 

These guys ... Jaguar Convertible Top Hydraulic System Rebuild/Upgrade Service - Top Hydraulics, Inc ... have built a solid reputation around here for quality parts and good customer service.

Good luck. I think the hardest part is over.

 

Thanks, though what are the two brass cylinders on top of the pump called? Are these replaceable individually? The pump itself is fine I believe, so I'd rather not have to pay $400 to those guys just to replace a couple broken electrical connectors basically.

Can I not buy just the 4 hoses I need as the other two for the latch cylinder were already replaced and in good shape? I need to check the other vendor that was recommended on here as well.

 

Those are solenoid valves. I cannot make out the exact damage, but see if you can find a way to plug them back in, perhaps with the aid of some silicone adhesive.

I would not advise removing them, I believe the wiring behind them is quite delicate. AFAIK no one has ever identifed a replacement for them, and they are not available separately from Jaguar.

If you call Top Hydraulics, I think he will sell any combination of hoses that you want.

 

Thanks- I tried again this evening, but those connectors are snapped in half in the worst spot possible. Circuit boards are broken, even with the odd tiny wire sticking out. I couldn't see that far up in the fender to see these wires and didn't know they were there until I pulled it out, so my fault. Sure hope that wasn't a $400 mistake.

I left a voicemail with Top Hydraulics and will look forward to hearing back what they can do hopefully tomorrow. Next update then, won't be tinkering any further until... *looks longingly at Kate, withdrawals setting in after 10 days*

 

Whatever you do, as Steve says, don't try to remove the solenoids. You will wreck them and so the pump.
I can't see why you couldn't solder to the bits sticking out of the solenoids - it's only 2 wires to connect.

 

Definitely not touching the solenoids, unfortunately the wires are so thin, most of them are missing and the circuit board is too hard to get at, so this is going to be impossible to solder. The base connector snapped in half, so what's exposed now shouldn't be. The harness connectors (the whole Y assembly) are fine.

Got a call back from Klause at Top Cylinders today and he was great- very helpful. He said he could break up the 6-hose kit for the 4 I need for $400. The solenoids can no longer be sourced from Jaguar indeed, but it sounds like he can rebuild them with different connectors for $200. Fair enough. I started disassembling this evening right after the call and will ship him the pump and 4 old hoses.

Trouble though- these things are screwed on so tight on both ends it's become challenging. I was able to get the two good hoses for the latch cylinder off by re-mounting the pump for leverage. Obviously can't get at the back for the other four this way. I'm usually rather creative coming up with Rube Goldberg ways to get things like this accomplished, but I'm coming up empty- anyone have suggestions?

The other option is leaving them attached at the pump, but I'm having difficulty threading the old hoses out from around the back seat. Will try again tomorrow. Was surprised that the bottoms of the cylinders are not mounted to anything- haven't stared at it long enough to understand how that still works but there are no mounting points down there.

Of note for future reference, I used some White Out paint to make a mark on the good top hose so I will know which one of the two goes where on reassembly. Disconnecting the bottom cylinder hoses required a vice grip that hit the side of the car for leverage, otherwise the cylinder bottom just turns with the wrench! I have not threaded any of the four out the trunk yet.

 

The solenoids on top one is for the roof latch control and the other is for the rams control. If the plugs are broken you have no replacement parts available, however you may get a used unit at E-Bay. I have directed people to find a TV repair shop and see If they can make repairs. From what I can see it looks doable. The removal of the solenoids is also doable but must use extreme caution and I would recommend against it. Any contamination introduced to the pump would be devastating. As for the hoses you will need to get them from Top Hyd or Jaguar because the fittings on one lift is metric and the other lift has a special fitting.

I have a lot of information about the roof system on my page if you care to look. I would suggest using extreme caution when moving the pump with the hoses attached ANY pinching or twisting of the hoses is not recommended it WILL reduce the life of the hose.

 

I should mention that the plugs are color coded to the solenoids. Do not mix them up.

 

Wow, what a site. Thanks, Gus! Definitely bookmarked. And I did note the plug and solenoid colors. I'm going to leave those bits alone and let Top Hydraulics take care of it. By the time I carefully dug into them to see what I could do (I've repaired iPhone guts before), the risk of botching the whole pump and my wasted time isn't worth it.

I was definitely careful to move the pump with the two hoses for the latch in place before I removed them once the pump was remounted- they did not crimp. The other four that I'm replacing I will just leave on and let the shop take them off. As soon as I can get the cylinder ends disconnected and snaked out (are the driver's side hoses loose under the bulkhead cover behind the seat? Anything attaching them?), then I'll get the assy. off to Top Hydraulics. Hopefully tomorrow. I've got a lot of landscaping to do over the weekend in the meantime...

 

And for kicks, here is Kate as she sits currently, as much as I could get in the shot from within my garage. The inside isn't that pretty at the moment.

 

Purty car!

Those four ram hoses are all scrap, right? If so, seems you could just cut them to free the pump and send it off to Top Hydraulics. Maybe best to check with the shop first, but I can't see any reason they would need to have the full length hoses.

 

The hoses going to the cylinders are relatively easy to replace but as I said before do not tug or bend them sharply or you will be doing it again. I should also mention that the hose connections are critical and MUST be attached in the proper order to the pump so if you are going to change them mark them as you install them.

Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

 

I talked to Klaus at Top Hyd today about the rebuilding of the pumps and he can do it all and that includes the solenoids if necessary. What he does for them is replace them with a different solenoid that is compatible with the pump and supply a new connector to be spliced in replacing the original plug.

 

That's right- he mentioned I would need to do a simple splice once I got it back. No biggie. He did say however that he needed the one connection that isn't the screw type, which appears to be the one on the passenger side at the bottom, as he's running low for his rebuild stock. So I'll be including that. I was going to send my old hoses along just for him to have a look-see and verify if it's a hose or hose connector at the pump that is the culprit. Probably doesn't matter at this point, those 4 hoses are in terrible shape, obviously failed somewhere, but it's one less thing for me to figure out how to dismantle.

I've got a jam packed weekend unfortunately, so this is all going to sit until Monday evening most likely.

 

Well, near as makes no difference, success two months later! On the first re-connection attempt of my new parts no less! Impressive, as it's a complex system and there's so much that could go wrong here (especially in my hands sometimes). If you are handy with a wrench and have another car to use, and time to work on this kind of stuff, it's totally doable. More time consuming than difficult. Anyway...

Klaus at Top Hydraulics was awesome, and his high quality of work shows. He was even kind enough to splice that y-connector cable for me on the new solenoid connections, so the pump was entirely plug-n-play (just add fluid). The new lines look great, as do my rebuilt rams. Shipping was very fast through Priority Mail and well packed. PayPal transaction. Highly recommended- I'll be handing the business cards and postcards he included in the shipment to a couple co-workers with power convertibles.

There may be some connection discrepancy between cars that it sounds like Gus is investigating as of this weekend, but TH instructions showed the top ram connections going to the bottom pump fittings- they are correct. I hesitantly followed along after reading another thread on here this morning (one claims top ram connections to top pump fittings) and luckily it worked. Not sure if it's different between model years. Can't imagine that but maybe it's a difference between the 4.0 and 4.2 era? My 2000 XKR though definitely went top ram to bottom pump though.

Other expectations- I remembered the system initially failed when I was putting the top up. It flopped down on the windscreen frame then the fluid petered out and it never latched (or rolled the back windows up), so I started my first test by trying to complete this cycle and punched the button UP first... what's that whooshing sound? The sound of someone who forgot to close the pump valve. Don't forget to do that- it'll be obvious (and shouldn't hurt anything) if you don't. It did take several minutes for what seemed like the pump to pressurize before it did anything- in fact the first attempts were completely dead and I got concerned I had missed a wire somewhere (don't forget that microswitch connection on the bottom of the passenger side ram). Once it built up enough something, it started functioning (within 10 min. or less- I did have the engine running for this FWIW). I dropped the top first, then put it back up. Minimal to no hiccups- it seemed to purge any air bubbles itself though after the first attempt (very slow latch deployment), it had pumped the system full of fluid and the tank was then low. I had initially filled it up to the high water mark, and it dropped to 50%. You can safely fill the whole reservoir up to the top from the get-go if the system is dry and you're doing what I did here. I topped it back up to the high water mark, and the pace of the latch and top movement were back to normal (and the level simply dropped between the two marks, where I'll leave it). After shrieking like a little schoolgirl upon the first successful cycle (should I admit that?), I did 4 more tests to make sure it was working properly. No trouble. Also before you start testing it for the first time, set the pump in a large bowl or tray on top of the battery and look for leaks. Likewise, fold up some paper towels and stuff them under the roof rams and watch for leaks there as well between each cycle. I haven't seen any 'how tight' remarks for the hose attachments, but hand tight with a 10" wrench or so is good. Definitely not finger tight, but don't break out the torque bar either (not an exact science here). I think there was a single thread left outside the connector on each fitting for mine personally, but don't use that as a certain reference point- YMMV. Additionally, I ran into a problem with one of my rams when I noticed the fitting was pointed the wrong way and the hose connector wasn't going to attach, or at the very least, was going to pinch badly against the body. Fear not. Put a drop of Liquid Wrench or similar oil onto the threads, take a wrench or vice-grip, and you can carefully twist these fittings a good 90* one way or the other to get the clearance you need. In fact, you might want to make sure they're tight anyway while you're in there as these can be a point of leakage as well. And when you thread the new hoses into the car, it was easiest to apply some foam sticky pads around the wide bulkhead opening and just stick the drivers side hoses through there, but you'll still want to poke the passenger hoses through the proper original bulkhead hole where the latch hoses go through as the hoses for this side are too short to follow that route. There's room around that bulkhead hole even though it doesn't look like it. You could also do the drivers side hoses though there too if you wanted. Maybe you should. I got lazy. Oh well, it all gets covered up by that carpet piece anyway, right? No operational difference.

Also helpful, before I disassembled anything weeks ago, I put a mark of white-out on the 'top' latch connector hose on the pump side, so that 50/50 guessing game was avoided when it came time to reconnect the latch hoses to the pump. Completely arbitrary as I have no idea which end it is for the latch side, but it doesn't matter on this end- you just want the right hose of the two on the right fitting at the pump. As a reference for those reading just this post, my car has already had the 'green shower' so these hoses were already replaced recently- aside from this, I didn't touch anything with the latch system.

After shaking off a little fear, I got everything threaded through and operational in 2-3 hours. Not including reassembling the backseat and trunk area! That comes next this evening. And it may take awhile, because I am drinking a few margaritas in celebration here. (and once they wear off, I'll be happily taking my first drive again. can't wait)

 

 

Those solenoid connectors are how I got into the first XK8 so cheap.

The previous owner who had always taken the car to a Jaguar dealer for service had a problem with the top operation. Since his 100K dealer warranty had expired he tried to fix it himself. Ripped one connector completely off. The dealer wanted $3500 to replace the pump.

After a day of internet work found a pump damaged in a rear end wreak that only cracked the reservoir. Since my reservoir was fine I got a replacement pump for $80.

Of course, the problem was the top latch hoses anyway.

 

Congratulations on a job well done. And just in time. The triple digit weather will be gone (for a while) from here in Dallas on Monday, so perfect top-down driving time!