Hi Dave and all. Pretty rare topic, I know, but I am desperate to find anyone in Australia who can help me arrange the above - with or after DPF+EGR cutouts. I would only be interested in the cutouts or blanking if I can ensure the software remapping will remove sensing these units.

All input welcome, but particularly looking to track down anyone who can point me to specific services - anywhere on the East Coast. In particular, I would like to contact Doc on the Gold Coast, who has contributed some great work via the diesel thread.

After heaps of homework, especially on diesel forums, Jag UK Forum, and elsewhere on internet, I feel I am across most of the issues - risks, gains, legals etc - but now I need the practical can-do.

Model = Jag S-Type very late VIN
Engine = 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo Diesel

Many thanks in advance,
Ken.

 

Congrats on the new purchase Ken.

I'll have to admit, i don't know much about diesels....

But I guess you know this is essentially the same engine as used in the Range Rovers and the Ford Territory? So extend your research to included those vehicles too, especially regarding the EGR blanking & DPF removal.

A mate of mine back in Germany (Thomas) had an early pre-DPF 2.7D S-Type & put a lot of miles on it, before replacing it with a DPF-equipped 2.7D X350 XJ. Naturally I got involved in helping him out from time to time.

So what can I tell you?

Don't bother with an off-the-shelf remap, you need to have the car on a dyno to get the most out of any tuning. The remap should be the last thing you do, once you've got any mechanical modifications done.

Thomas' XJ needed both EGR valves replaced at 160'000kms, and it was a very expensive exercise (about $3000 from memory, and that was after a lot of negotiation with the workshop that did it)

In hindsight, if he'd been able to blank off the EGRs, this might well have been avoided.

Problem is, to my limited understanding, the diesels which comply to EURO IV emmissions (i.e. after 2006, or maybe 2007?) will throw up a heap of codes & check engine light if you blank the DPF completely. That's why with the X-Type diesels, the later models use a blanking plate with a small hole drilled in it, so that there is a small amount of gas flow to the valve, just enough to keep the sensors happy, but at the same time greatly reducing the oil sludge contamination into the valves.

If it were me, i'd be removing the valves & giving them a good clean out as a preventative measure, and then fitting a plate with a hole.

A quick search online doesn't turn up any blanking plates with holes available to buy, but in my mind the theory is the same...

DPF removal, as far as I know, needs some work done in the ECU to stop it from bringing up error messages. I remember reading up about it for Thomas, but I don't have the info on hand right now.

 

Hi Cam,

Terrific feedback again ... hence my thanks. Yours were several of the posts that I recall - largely via the reference to Thomas. I can add that my research has indeed extended across the LR and Peugeot/Citroen connection, but did not know the Ford Territory also. Thanx - gotta be useful. The LR forum members in particular seem to be right across many of the issues - well supported by specialists who offer services in UK and Europe.

My understanding is that you are spot on with the "holey" EGR blanking plates but only if to allow the sensors to continue to produce values without which the factory ECM will throw up fault codes etc. - much the same as your final par about keeping/removing DPF. But, if I really am getting on top of this, a custom remap that deletes all the related sensor code, thereby renders irrelevant whatever happens to the EGR valves, DPF or their related sensors. Some have left them; some blanked; some fitted cutouts - but must be reflected in remap of ECM firmware.

It really does seem to boil down to your advice ... I figure that given your line that you aren't strong on diesels, you must just be psychic!

Namely and firstly, do any and all mods which may include all or some of - fitting large bore exhaust system downstream of turbos; cutout/blanking of EGR valves ("holey" unless remap); cutout/blanking of DPF; retain/remove related sensors. Only then, and lastly, we can undertake custom remap which can reflect changes and thus generate the reported increases in bhp/torque +/- economy, while monitoring on rolling road dyno.

UK reports (BuckMR2 is but one) show results for a mix of economy and performance - and the 30+% gain in RWHP and Torque is not to be sneezed at. Cam, I really do appreciate your help in this area because I know it is not an item of interest for most members.

I will keep on searching ... find forum member Doc on the Gold Coast ... gotta find me a diesel/software specialist who maybe doesn't know Jags but has worked on a fire breathing Range Rover, Disco or Ford Explorer. Any thoughts around your backyard, Cam?
.

 

Sorry for the add-on post, but should have added that I have a fair micro-controller and mcu coding background, so I hope to work with somebody who has workshop, dyno and the right stuff on custom remapping.

It would be cool to help develop a range of options and solutions for those with these diesels ... and the many more even higher performance V8, V10 and V12 units that will doubtless follow.
.

 

Just posting so that I become subscribed to the thread.

Cheers

 

Really depends on how far you want to go I suppose.

Personally, I didn't fit the blanking plate to the egr, or the one with the hole drilled out, just left as is and nothing else done other than a remap from 204bhp to 245bhp.

Its a different beast altogether and gives smaller, lighter cars a real run for their money when required, fuel economy is decent too, I've seen mid 40's on a long run and around 30mpg stop / start around town.

I guess its all down to how much time, money and effort you want to put into it, certainly if you do some / all of the above and the remap last you will see a little more.

Either was I highly recommend a good remap

 

i dont know if this fits your plan;

but in the states(especially TEXAS), the hot shot medium truck guys modify as follows,

mechanical ,remove the complete exhaust system from turbos back, install larger piping(6-8mm larger, only one hi-low muffler, to end.

a cool air intake setup. remove EGR or blank off.

larger set fuel injectors.

then a complete remap and notifying the remap guy what you have done, and he can usually give at least three performance settings to use at a a turn of a knob!

20% low set, 50% medium, and 100% or more,altho transmission may not like it !

the vehicles with are very fast(and noisy), as always MPG is better.

 

Extra bhp / torque is always a good thing, up to a point.

A simple remap of my Ford Mondeo ST Tdci with no other work done, took it from 155bhp - 195bhp

This was a slightly bigger increase than most remappers were willing to do.

Yes it was fast, yes the fuel economy was great, but.......

This did make the car borderline for driveability, or certainly any further it would've been.

When pushing it hard, and I mean really hard, it was almost possible to spin the wheels in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, something to bear in mind

 

JIM, sounds like fun!

at what point is to much torque? ah yes, something breaks.
ron

 

I have decided to take the easy path. Bought a RaceChip PRO2 and fitted it up in 30 minutes. It also has a bypass plug. Both are working well at idel from what I can tell. Test drive later today to check gradually.

 

Just note that those chips are Fuel ONLY Chips. They do not adjust Turbo and therefore Air Fuel Ratios. That's why they are cheap

 

Each to their own, I have heard a few positives, but probably more negatives about tuning boxes myself.
As stated, these tuning boxes that are self fitted, generally simply overfuel

This is why I went for a remap, but as I said, each to their own.

 

Agreed, but there are other Chips on the market that do more in this area.

 

Hi Robert,

Plate full at present, but I like what I hear. I will travel down in not so newish New Year to pick your brains . . . can't happen till then. I'll phone you prior to arranging trip, but I see our first meeting as one to explore options, costs etc. We can then plan for me to return at agreed date to carry out work. I note the 10day turnaround on modded replacement chip. Keeping my girl all number original, including ECU, means I turn it over to you for a fortnight? That's doable. Just make sure she doesn't go out late at night, and keep her away from those horny XJSs!

This keeps any commercial negotiation at arms length from Jaguar Forums . . . translated as . . . I may gag on your costs, but we desperately need your technical input and active participation here. Hence, open forum; not yet PM . . . many more than just me needing your advice.

Short of finding a way under-priced XKR Roadster, or maybe XJR, each conveniently offered in my choice of colour, full options pack, wheels etc, I fret that Jaguar no longer makes affordable models that start to tempt me out of our gorgeous late prod 2.7L V6 TTD S-Type . . . and even a matching XKR and/or XJR would need to be "also" Jags rather than an "instead of" Jag. Do I sound committed to my perfect machine?

I had, from my research, formed a dismissive attitude to fuel pressure push or add-on chips, tuning box products etc, but do I sense in your most recent reply post, that there is some merit in some of these? As you can see from reading posts #2 and #3, we had been looking for a package solution that may (or may not) include . . .

• larger bore exhaust system, downstream of turbos, revising DPF;
• cleanout of EGR/inlet tracts, and complete blanking of EGR system;
• complete re-chip, re-build and remap of original ECU/PCM system.

I then see my final task in resetting the ZF auto adaptations, but this I can arrange myself. Robert, any thoughts or reading you point me to would be welcome over Christmas. Objective is to further enhance performance (significant, not stupid . . . I see references to +30% RWHP and +35-50% in torque) with improvement in fuel economy a bonus rather than critical; and be rid of what I consider potentially dangerous engineering systems. Obviously, you have your commercial interests, employees etc to protect and pay for . . . but I am interested to know if I'm in the ballpark that says the outline in those earlier posts (#3) are "Doable+Payable+Feasible"
Keep up the keeping on, Robert, and best wishes for the festive season,
Ken

 

As stated before, I myself haven't added any bigger exhaust systems, revising DPF and or EGR Blanking / delete, just the base remap

From 204bhp to around 245bhp was around £250 - £300 iirc

Presumably the ballpark for that alone would be fairly similar?

 

Ken you are very funny.

No, the girl stays here with us. I am the only bugger that gets to drive customer's cars/trucks.

However, mostly I do test drive at night when I get a chance to tune properly on the road.

But you are welcome to count the kms. There wont be many extra from the time you bring her in and mostly I can do quicker than the said 10 days of course.

About the piggy back units. Since we make them ourselves (not rebranding) we can get great tunes from them however if ever we need to do DPF and EGR revision then the remap is the only way to go as we kill 3 birds with one stone's throw.

Happy to chat when you are here.

Cheers ... and happy holidays to you and yours

Merry Christmas to the forum as well.

God willing, see you all on the other side.

 

Hey Robert, I wasn't suggesting you would misuse her. It's HER I'm worried about . . . middle of the night I sometimes wake to hear a howling down the back streets. Sure enough, come morning, her bonnet's still warm and she's got this sorta lop-sided grin at one side of her grille.

I suspect there's an auto-start feature I haven't found yet . . . but SHE knows. One of these nights I'll catch her at it. There's a couple of XJRs I've had my eye on, and they are even worse studs than the XJSs. She gets a sniff of all that big V8 muscle, and poof . . . caution to the wind.

I've re-coded the garage door opener (mind you, I now realize SHE was watching) . . . I've hidden her keys in the fruit bowl . . . I'm damned if I know how she's getting out. Do others have this problem?

Man oh man . . . if she's been foolin' around . . .

Take care Robert,
Ken

 

LOL

You sound just like a worried father should sound

 

A question for Robert (Chip Tuning):

I've been tossing up whether to get a DPF delete and retune for nearly a year now, but I've pretty much decided not to do a DPF delete as I want to sell the car and buy an F-Type in the next year or two, and I'm worried about the effect on resale value and ability to sell with the DPF deleted. Also, the DPF has been perfectly behaved for the last 6 or 8 months, not a single "DPF Full" message in that time. I prefer to be completely honest with the people I deal with so I would not be happy trying to hide the fact that I had the DPF deleted, and a half competent dealership might detect it anyway.
In the meantime I have fitted a tuning chip, one of those that plugs into the fuel rail and alters only the fuelling, not the turbo boost or anything else.
It's working quite well and is giving me a fair whack of extra torque, power and throttle response, with no loss of fuel economy.
So, eventually, my question: Is it worth getting a retune without removing the DPF (or the EGR valves for that matter)?
My local tuner can perform the retune but it will cost me the same (around $2,000) whether or not I get the DPF removed.
If a retune without DPF removal can give significantly more torque and power over and above my tuning chip (and with 100% reliability) then I'll seriously consider it, if not then I'll give it a miss.

 

Hi OzXFS

To be frank ... No.

If I were going to get a remap it would be to do all whilst I am in there. WHY? Because the DPF is a huge restriction in the exhaust. The engine just cannot breathe properly. Even adding a Performance Chip to cars with the DPF still on is asking for issues as you now are asking MORE from the engine but the restriction is still there and only makes things worse.

I have a rule when doing Performance Modules on DPF equipped vehicles ... we don't do them UNLESS the DPF is removed as we have seen too many temp sensors fail and hot EGTs.

Hope this helps