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The problem is that in order to mount the separate electric hand brake calipers I had to change the rear hubs. They are from the SVR. The abs sensors had to be changed as they fit in a different position and needed to be longer. I'm guessing that the abs unit is looking at a larger resistance and throws up a fault. I will check and re bleed the system just to eliminate that. The only thing in relation to the abs that has been changed are the sensors at the hub. From what you suggest the sensors I've fitted will be SVR and I'm hoping that the abs unit can be re calibrated to accept them.
Thanks for the advice as I'm so disappointed that all the hard work has been done and I've ended up with this problem
I can only see one ABS modulator listed for all brake variants. The wheel speed sensors are the same at the front (only RWD/AWD are different), with the rears either w or w/o CCM brakes as you know.
Do you get any codes with your symptoms? You could try changing the braking system in the CCF and reflashing the ABS software to see if it loads a different profile. Hopefully Stwsam can tell you if that was needed or not (can't see why it would be, but these cars are primarily computers nowadays). Is there any chance the modulator was drained or might have air in its circuits from the work? It might be worth running through the ABS bleed routine in SDD/Pathfinder if that may have happened. Triple check the wheel speed sensors are all aligned correctly and check the electrical connectors.
That bracket you are missing, could it be T2R16023/4?
not sure if 2014 hub is different from my 2016, Cambo could chime in but I had no issue with my hubs converting to ccb. I did see and ordered a different sensor wire but I saw no reason to change because there was no setup change with the hubs. Again I have a rwd manual . Glad to discuss if you want to pm me. Also describe what your symptoms are that tells you the abs configure is not happy ,
So I got a set of the ducts T2R10498 and T2R10497 that attach to the antiroll bar and they won't fit and I noticed why.
Stwsam did you look up the part numbers referencing to a project 7? The reason I ask is that I noticed the shape of the antiroll bar is completely different on the rwd vs the awd when I went to put these on, as can be seen in the pic below vs what you posted. Look at the orientation of where the nut is on the antiroll bar link and it'll be very obvious.
If that is the case I wonder of the svr has a similar duct as that would probably fit my R.
Well my parts catalogue only goes up to December 2015 so the SVR parts are not in there.
But there is only one hub listed up until that point. Only one hub carrier as well.
The halfshafts for the F-Type are all listed as "without visible ABS ring" and without having a car here in front of me to look at the arrangement, it's a bit hard to say what's going on with the wheel speed sensor setup. If the wheel speed sensor reluctor is on the hub itself, maybe there is a different "tooth count" on the newer hubs?
I doubt very much that it's a resistance issue though. Most likely the wheel speed sensor simply isn't seeing the teeth on the ring so you have a zero wheel speed on the rear being seen by the ABS system. Or it's getting the wrong speed because of a difference between the tooth count. Either one would be my guess.
I don't really understand why you need to change the hubs, the special bracket takes care of the mounting of the main caliper and the park brake caliper, bolting onto the standard hub carrier, so what's it got to do with the hub?
So I got a set of the ducts T2R10498 and T2R10497 that attach to the antiroll bar and they won't fit and I noticed why.
Stwsam did you look up the part numbers referencing to a project 7? The reason I ask is that I noticed the shape of the antiroll bar is completely different on the rwd vs the awd when I went to put these on, as can be seen in the pic below vs what you posted. Look at the orientation of where the nut is on the antiroll bar link and it'll be very obvious.
If that is the case I wonder of the svr has a similar duct as that would probably fit my R.
The parts catalogue I have only shows the one version of that duct, and I cannot find anything related to an AWD version. Need a newer catalogue, sorry... EDIT or maybe the AWD versions don't get this duct?
I think it's the abs rings that's causing my issues. I've driven the car and anything with a reference to speed isn't working. I don't understand why or how it knows this when it's stationary ? For instance the boot can't be opened and the roof can't be operated.
100 percent the parking calipers bolt to aluminum adapter bracket. The. Bracket bolts to original caliper mount location which is universal on all models. Alan Webb are using the bracket I posted. Why did you change hubs?
To Mpower the AWD definitely uses a completely different front sway bar configuration. Guessing there is too much front drive assembly and mounting had to be relocated.
I changed the hubs as I wasn't aware of the adaptor plate. I knew I would be needing a mount for the hand brake calipers but didn't consider that the abs rings would be different. My plan now is to get new bearings and original spec abs rings put in the new hubs as it's all there now. I still don't understand how it can be sending the wrong or any signal when stationary. I know it is because nothing works ! Witchcraft!!
The parts catalogue I have only shows the one version of that duct, and I cannot find anything related to an AWD version. Need a newer catalogue, sorry... EDIT or maybe the AWD versions don't get this duct?
Chances are you are right about the awd, and I may have jumped the gun a little too quick. But to my eye that cooling duct is a great routing for cooling and I really wanted to fit it to mine as I drive the car like a lunatic and build up a good deal of heat in the brakes, which is partially why I'll never get another car that doesn't offer CC brakes.
Anyway I guess I gotta start asking and poking my head in the wheel well of a few svrs to investigate.
100 percent the parking calipers bolt to aluminum adapter bracket. The. Bracket bolts to original caliper mount location which is universal on all models. Alan Webb are using the bracket I posted. Why did you change hubs?
To Mpower the AWD definitely uses a completely different front sway bar configuration. Guessing there is too much front drive assembly and mounting had to be relocated.
Possibly, I gotta look at a few svrs to see if that is indeed the case. If it is I may have to fabricate custom brackets to mount these or get the SVR ones if they exist.
[QUOTE=Mpowerr;1641403]Possibly, I gotta look at a few svrs to see if that is indeed the case. If it is I may have to fabricate custom brackets to mount these or get the SVR
If you get hold of an svr take some pics. looking at your photo it looks as though even your sway bar is different enough not to accept the ducts we are fitting. Oh how nice if we could just set the darn cars side by side. It is a moment like this that our newer technology makes me chuckle. We feel we are so connected with email, forums and text but I still find a telephone or visit to a friends garage beats all the modern technology. But, one of these days when we catch up with Star Trek and Scotty has the teleporter working, he can beam me over from Pennsylvania after church and I can give you a hand!
Possibly, I gotta look at a few svrs to see if that is indeed the case. If it is I may have to fabricate custom brackets to mount these or get the SVR
If you get hold of an svr take some pics. looking at your photo it looks as though even your sway bar is different enough not to accept the ducts we are fitting. Oh how nice if we could just set the darn cars side by side. It is a moment like this that our newer technology makes me chuckle. We feel we are so connected with email, forums and text but I still find a telephone or visit to a friends garage beats all the modern technology. But, one of these days when we catch up with Star Trek and Scotty has the teleporter working, he can beam me over from Pennsylvania after church and I can give you a hand!
Will do! You are absolutely right! Nothing beats being the physically to take a look or second best is the phone...
I had my R with carbon ceramic brakes serviced yesterday and asked them to advise on reduced performance to the braking system since I had the fluid changed at a different dealer last year (advised every 15,000 miles with the CCB). It emerged that the fluid used for the original change was incorrect. The CCB uses Castrol react SRF racing high performance brake fluid rather than the more common DOT4 ESL fluid used on pretty much every other current Jag model. The servicing dealer who informed me of this was unsure what issue might arise from using the incorrect fluid, but there is a big warning in the workshop manual to not mix the brake fluid types on CCB vehicles.
The dealer that did the fluid change for me will be replacing it in due course; they are just waiting to get stock of the correct fluid. They will bleed the ABS circuits as well as flush through a few times to clear out the old fluid.
I am struggling to see any negative long-term effect from having the wrong fluid used, and no doubt a small amount of it mixed, unless you can think of anything? The poor performance I reported was longer pedal travel required (not dangerous, just not as sharp as it was pre-change), and the actual stopping performance was equal or slightly worse than the steel brakes on my X351 both cold and warm. Except for the callipers the rest of the hydraulic system is shared, so I doubt any additives, etc, are of concern. Indeed I am struggling to see how using the different fluid would even affect performance as much as I have noticed (so the issue may be elsewhere). I am wondering if what I have noticed might be because the software in the modulator runs a different profile for the CCB vs steel brake systems?
I thought it might be of note to those retrofitting the CCB system to their cars, and for all owners to make sure their servicing dealer knows you have CCB and the fluid required is different (and 4 times as expensive!)
The other thing of note is that my discs and pads all round are now finally worn by 10% after 17,000 miles, equally front-to-back, and the tech mentioned that they are likely a little less worn than that. Not bad at all.
I had my R with carbon ceramic brakes serviced yesterday and asked them to advise on reduced performance to the braking system since I had the fluid changed at a different dealer last year (advised every 15,000 miles with the CCB). It emerged that the fluid used for the original change was incorrect. The CCB uses Castrol react SRF racing high performance brake fluid rather than the more common DOT4 ESL fluid used on pretty much every other current Jag model. The servicing dealer who informed me of this was unsure what issue might arise from using the incorrect fluid, but there is a big warning in the workshop manual to not mix the brake fluid types on CCB vehicles.
The dealer that did the fluid change for me will be replacing it in due course; they are just waiting to get stock of the correct fluid. They will bleed the ABS circuits as well as flush through a few times to clear out the old fluid.
I am struggling to see any negative long-term effect from having the wrong fluid used, and no doubt a small amount of it mixed, unless you can think of anything? The poor performance I reported was longer pedal travel required (not dangerous, just not as sharp as it was pre-change), and the actual stopping performance was equal or slightly worse than the steel brakes on my X351 both cold and warm. Except for the callipers the rest of the hydraulic system is shared, so I doubt any additives, etc, are of concern. Indeed I am struggling to see how using the different fluid would even affect performance as much as I have noticed (so the issue may be elsewhere). I am wondering if what I have noticed might be because the software in the modulator runs a different profile for the CCB vs steel brake systems?
I thought it might be of note to those retrofitting the CCB system to their cars, and for all owners to make sure their servicing dealer knows you have CCB and the fluid required is different (and 4 times as expensive!)
The other thing of note is that my discs and pads all round are now finally worn by 10% after 17,000 miles, equally front-to-back, and the tech mentioned that they are likely a little less worn than that. Not bad at all.
I'm pretty sure there are a couple of minor differences, first and most important is that the srf has a much higher boiling point than regular dot 4 fluid, which is necessary due to the heat generated by the carbon ceramics, you can use motul rbf 600/660 or the bermbo lcf600 or htc64T as well if you can't get a hold of the castrol srf. The other is that the other fluids are classified as low viscosity and the neither of the ones I posted or any racing fluid gets that classification.
I don't think you'll do any irreversible damage by using other fluid like it was done by your other dealer. What happens is reduced braking performance, since at or near the higher edge of operating temperature of he ceramics the fluid is nearing its boiling point and therefore the pedal would feel spongy. Now if you were racing or very hard on the brakes that would be a bit dangerous as you might hit the brake and the pedal would sink to the floor without producing much braking force.
Flush the system and use one of the above fluids and you'll be fine.
It has been a couple of months and a couple thousand miles since I completed the CCB conversion and wanted to take a few minutes to check in on my impressions. Now, let's put things in perspective. We are talking about an installation on a V6S manual driven by a guy closing in on 60 who's only brush with racing was auto cross in my early 20's so performance at my age is vanity, not necessity. I wanted to be clear that I was not trying to fool myself or others as to the importance of this conversion. But for answers to maybe questions.....
The car from stock stop great, now clearly another level of oomph when you hit the pedals. As the sales manager of my dealer describes it, the car stops harder, faster and with no torque braking. The torque you real do not notice until your car no longer jostles at all on hitting the pedal.
Does the car handle better, maybe in my head but I would be lying if i told you I could swear to it. The conversion was a piddling process over a couple of months as the forum and I sorted out the parts needed. Doing the work over weekends or evenings desensitizes you to what you had versus what you have now. So, not having dropped the car off one day and picking up the next, I cannot tell you. What I can tell you is having your car off the road for that period makes you miss and appreciate it all the more.
Appearance, there is really no comparison. None. When you the car in any parking lot with any other car, the bulging storm wheels and blinding yellow calipers screams that there is something special about this car. Several close friends swear I traded the car for a new one. These are golf guys that see me all the time and have no understanding for my passion to do things myself. Needless to say, I do not play golf.
Now, most importantly.....wheel dust.....none. I mean non. Hard to imagine but what a tremendous benefit to the package.
Am I pleased or any regrets, thrilled and absolutely not. Would I do it again. 100%. If and when I do let the car go, this upgrade will be the one I most miss.
The tune I can do again(I have VAP pulley and tune which is a phenom.) The short shifter is installed and is a wower when driving. But, gosh, I love these brakes!
The parts catalogue I have only shows the one version of that duct, and I cannot find anything related to an AWD version. Need a newer catalogue, sorry... EDIT or maybe the AWD versions don't get this duct?
Any idea if the ducts will fit the X150 with Alcon?
First, thanks to Stwsam and all who contributed all the valuable info in this thread. Certainly made things a lot easier! I just finished the retrofit last week and thought I'd share my experience.
Removal and Installation of Brake Parts
This was straightforward. Most everything is replacement of bolt-on parts. I won't go into details since some info is already available in this thread and the workshop manual covers all of this. Here are notes on things I ran into:
The only non bolt-on part as Stwsam mentioned is the splash shield. They are held on by two 1/4" rivets each, and the rears also have an additional bolt. Removal is easy by drilling out the old rivets. Installation of the new part requires a rivet tool. This should be straightforward, but my heavy duty riveter does not clear the front hub for one of the two rivets. So I had to remove the front hubs to rivet the splash shields on. The workshop manual says to replace the hub bolts, but I couldn't find the part online, so I reused the old ones and applied Loctite. The rear splash shields had no issues.
Front brake hoses and ABS sensors from what I can tell are the same part for CCB and non-CCB, however the ABS sensor cable touches the suspension knuckle due to the different location where the brake hose connects to the CCB caliper. The ABS sensor needs to clear the knuckle so I had to move the position of the clips that hold the ABS sensors to the brake hoses.
On the rear, the brake hose is different for CCB vehicles. The end that mounts to the caliper has a different shape. The rear ABS sensors for CCB vehicles also have a different part number. I forgot to purchase the ABS sensors, but the non-CCB ABS sensors fit with careful routing. I suspect the CCB version has additional rubber mounting points. Also, someone else mentioned this, I believe the sensor mounting bracket on top of the upper control arm is different on CCB vehicles. I couldn't find the part online and will need to talk to the parts guy at the dealer to see if he can get it for me. For now to clear all the suspension bits, I used a wire tie with a fir-tree push mount to hold the sensor to a bolt hole on the parking caliper bracket, and not use one of the mount points on the upper control arm bracket.
In the rear there is not much space to get to the nut that connects the brake line to the brake hose. I removed the bolt that connects the hose bracket to the body, and was able to position the entire assembly to get just enough space to use two open ended wrenches.
Brake Fluid Flush
Jaguar recommends Castrol React SRF brake fluid for CCB vehicles. I have access to SDD so I simply let all the fluid drain out from the hoses when I removed the old calipers. If you don't have access to SDD you'll need to either plug/seal the brake hoses or work fast to avoid draining all the fluid in the brake reservoir and getting air into the ABS module. The annoying thing with the SDD bleed is that the procedure always goes through all four corners in order and doesn't allow bleeding individual corners. For some reason the CCB specific bleed procedure keeps failing midway through for me and I never could get the fronts done. I ended up running the procedure for the standard brakes and ran it twice, once for the inner caliper and then for the outer caliper. The flush/bleed for me used up around 1.5L of fluid. So get two bottles.
Additional Aero Parts
CCB vehicles have additional aero bits for better front brake cooling.
The cooling ducts (mounted on the sway bar) are already mentioned earlier in this thread. I believe these are meant for track use only.
There is additional cooling through the gills on the sides of the front bumpers. CCB vehicles have different rear covers behind the gills and a different fender liner to allow air through.
The three under bumper spoiler pieces are different. There is a gap between the center and side pieces to allow air through the bottom.
Lastly there are some wheel spats mounted to the front bumper edges, for some reason the part numbers show up as rear wheel moldings online, but they are wheel spats for the front. I am however having an issue getting the correct part in the bag for the RH side. Looks like a mfg issue with both part numbers containing the LH part. I had a replacement sent with the same wrong part in it .
Here are the part numbers for the additional aero bits for a 2015 F-Type R:
T2R11276 Side Spoiler, RIGHT
T2R11277 Side Spoiler, LEFT
T2R11275 Spoiler Center
T2R10517 Rear Cover, RIGHT
T2R10518 Rear Cover, LEFT
T2R17445 Fender Liner, RIGHT
T2R16519 Fender Liner, LEFT
T2R12665 Wheel Opening Molding, RIGHT
T2R12666 Wheel Opening Molding, LEFT
I still have a few open items and questions that I'll add in a separate reply.
There are a few items I still would like to sort out to make this a complete retrofit:
As mentioned earlier, there is a different bracket for the rear ABS sensor that mounts on the upper control arm. If anyone knows the part number, please share.
CCB vehicles have brake pad wear sensors for all four corners, and for both inner and outer pads. Non-CCB vehicles only have wear sensors for the LF and RR corners. I was hoping the wiring and connector for the additional sensors exist and were tucked away somewhere, but it doesn't look like it. I couldn't figure out if there is a different wiring harness or if it's part of the main harness (hope not). If someone has some info on where the sensors on the RF and LR connects to, please share.
The ABS module programming for CCB vehicles is different. Now I've been looking in SDD and I could not find how to configure the brake system to CCB, including the CCF settings. But, I'm new to SDD. I use Hawkeye and IIDTool on my Land Rovers. Does anybody know how to configure CCB brakes in SDD? Here are the additional features for CCB brakes:
Electronic brake prefill that prebuilds pressure for all throttle lift-off actions, not just rapid throttle lift-off in emergency stopping situations.
Brake fluid temperature warning that estimates brake system temperature and throws a warning when temps are >464F.
Brake disc wear prediction that estimates rotor wear and throws a warning when wear levels exceed the predetermined 3% wear based on weight. Which reminds me that an extra step for a proper retrofit is to program the new and actual rotor weights in SDD.
The parking brake module may also be different, although it appears to work perfectly fine. I found this part that is CCB specific: T2R12365, labelled as Parking Brake Control, but there are various part numbers for the parking brake control. The programming for the parking brake control seem to be different for CCB as well, so that made me think it has a different module, but maybe this part is something else. This part isn't cheap and I'd like to know what it is first. Anybody know?
03-16-2017, 04:10 PM
Abs issues
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